What is cap and trade?
- Thread starter wazup
- Start date
A way for Wynne to collect more revenue to pass of to Liberals in the guise of consultants and contract cancellations.
An excellent explanation in deed. You forgot to mention that it is the perfect way to finish off what little is left of the Ontario economy, and it's effectiveness at stripping the last dollar out of the pockets of many tax payers who have precious little left over at the end of the month. This tax creep, (i.e. road tolls, carbon taxes and the additional HST that gets tacked on when we buy gasoline of heat our homes) will finish off the poorest in this province. When you look at what Northerners are paying for their hydro, this just adds insult to injury. Well done - Liberals!
With no such taxes forthcoming in Trumps America, and his plan to lower the personal and corporate tax rates, it looks like our governments (both Federal & Provincial) have finally headed off blindly over the cliff...
Apparently no will admit to voting Liberal, & yet they got a Majority,,,,,,AGAIN. WTF
I will admit I voted Liberal. At the time, the PC Government, IMHO, had screwed things up with C36, C51 and few others while they had the federal Majority. I didn't like what they were doing at the time. 2 years ago, all you saw around here was the same lines but with PC in the sentence instead of Liberal.
Some great explanations of what "cap and trade" is. Think of it as a disguise, rather than say the word "tax" or "taxation" which would piss most people off, this is essentially what it amounts to. Politicians of all stripes are great at smoke and mirrors, knowing that there are those who will fall for their BS blindly. I also agree that with Trump now in and his pulling out of the Paris Agreement on Climate Change, this, along with the carbon taxes being imposed upon Canadians, will bring about some sort of economic crisis, as of yet unknown in magnitude, in this country.
It puts a price on pollution and allows you to trade the pollution you do not create, for money. The job of a company is to make money. They do this either by increasing their revenue, or reducing their costs, or a combination of the two. Until now companies were able to pollute for free. They had no incentive to stop polluting. Now the law says it will not be free anymore.
Let's say that all the major polluters are given a limit to what they are still allowed to pollute- for free. 100 tons of emissions per year, let's say. If your company produces only 90 tons, then you can sell the 10 tons you don't use, at the current price, adding to your revenue. So another company that produces 110 tons can buy the 10 tons from you, which adds to their costs. Now the market will reward companies who produce less pollution.
Let's say that all the major polluters are given a limit to what they are still allowed to pollute- for free. 100 tons of emissions per year, let's say. If your company produces only 90 tons, then you can sell the 10 tons you don't use, at the current price, adding to your revenue. So another company that produces 110 tons can buy the 10 tons from you, which adds to their costs. Now the market will reward companies who produce less pollution.
New tax is another Wynne mistake that is going to hurt many people. It is easier for governments to increase taxes than cut spending.
Premier Wynne calls high electricity prices her ‘mistake’ Nov. 19, 2016
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...alls-high-electricity-prices-her-mistake.html
Premier Wynne calls high electricity prices her ‘mistake’ Nov. 19, 2016
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...alls-high-electricity-prices-her-mistake.html
I can vote conservative provincial and liberal federal because they affect different aspects of my life. I don't like majority government because independent of the party, they tend to run a muck totally unaccountable for four years. Harper gravitated to the dark side of the conservative party - those that wish to control your lives using a mold generated by Victorian Christian fundamentalism. C-39 and the ridiculous clothing rule for federal female Muslim employees, graded citizenship depending on where you live ... the guy was an asshole. I was ready to vote Ontario conservative until Hudak went on an arrogant rampage totally disconnected with the plight of Ontario families. The new guy has promised to fight, if not roll back tax grabs - that is what I'm interested in.
From my limited understanding of cap and trade; it is a program to provide incentives to industry to limit pollution on a global scale. Heavy polluting businesses do not go out of business but they must buy their excess right to pollute from company's that are more energy efficient. Overall, the burden is passed off to the consumer through higher manufacturing costs. All that understood - why is the fuel prices being raised to the consumer ? There is no option for us to lower our cap costs on gasoline - we have no choice. All revenue from cap charges to consumers should be returned directly. I don't want to hear some convoluted plan to spend my money on other projects - just give it back. I've paid enough. It's mine - you don't desreve it you sole sucking, life draining pieces of crap (politicians).
Good explanation, but why is it added to our fuel costs, how does it relate to us? If we pollute less are we rewarded. I kept this out of politics as it affects us all, just wanted an explanation.
No I can't take public transit as I use my car for work. Interestingly if everyone suddenly took public transit, the system would break down costing millions in lost productivity. Public transit fuel costs are going to increase - you don't think those will be passed on ? Electric cars are not immune to cap and trade as Hydro rates - obscene now, are about to increase also.
Not only is there not a realistic alternative to consumers, if there was - the government would simply increase taxes to cover the shortfall. There is no positive benefit to the environment with the cap charges to the consumer. The is an unjustified economic burden to struggling families already bleeding from excessive energy costs. It is blood money taken by an out of touch government for wasteful projects to benefit the few. Fuck'm I want to retain what little I have left.
For gasoline, you are paying a carbon tax and it is used as an incentive to pollute less, by using other alternative (cleaner) energies or public transit.
For natural gas, the gas companies like Enbridge are hit with cap and trade, they in turn pass on the cost to the consumer (us) and it again, is to push us to use cleaner energies to heat our homes.
There is no reward for polluting less.
For years we as consumers have changed out light bulbs to more energy efficient types (cfl, led) at a greater cost to purchase, without really seeing an appreciable cost saving, factoring the cost of the bulbs and the rising costs of electricity. We buy energy efficient products, ones that are better than the products of a generation ago. We turn lights off, we buy programmable thermostats etc...all to no avail it seems, as it would appear that the government isn't satisfied with our efforts as consumers. Maybe our efforts have worked and there has been a reduction in usage and a corresponding drop in tax revenue (hst).
While I applaud efforts to that actually do something, this is nothing more than taxation, without remedying the situation. The alternative energies are nuclear in Ontario, a very expensive source, with its own issues with regards to the fuel used and its disposal. Wind and solar aren't viable as of now and the government has let NIMBYism creep in with regards to wind farms, playing to politics instead of being the solution here. Even Ontario Hydro doesn't want these technologies hooking into the grid. I guess cap and trade fits well with the gas plant scandal, now they can say this is why they were squashed and not party politics.
The main polluters are in other parts of the world, the places that manufacture our consumer goods on the cheap. Low labour costs, no environmental issues to worry about and they aren't reducing one damned bit.
I agree with you, this is just another tax, the Ontario government needs about $1,000 a year more in taxes from all of us to support the bureaucracy. Is easier for the government to increase revenue by making many small cuts to the disposable income of the average tax payer through higher taxes than to cut the number, pay or benefits of the public service. Can see what Quebec went through when they reformed public sector pensions a couple of years ago. With many small tax increases there will be no protests, but try not increasing teachers pay, for example, and you would think the world was ending.
A scam in a way that allows companies to continue polluting if they can rework their emission targets. But sadly there was no way that hard carbon limits would be enacted.
And no it's won't destroy economies and people who say it's a tax grab quite clearly haven't taken the time to look at either the concept or Ontario's regulations but simply want to once again bitch about the Liberals.. If people want to read up on it there is a whole range of business built solely on selling carbon credits. As with every other economic move, some businesses will be hurt, some will be helped (and the gas companies will use it as yet another excuse to gouge).
The owner of my company is still a huge fan of Harris but he doesn't take issue with cap and trade because we will make a small profit from selling carbon credits.
