What's up with Torontonian

[ontario]

In one city I lived in, a grenade levelled an SUV carrying a full load of passengers half a block from my house. In another city I lived in, guards with AK-47 submachine guns line the entrances of shopping concourses. In another city I lived in, a bomb levelled a pub two-and-a-half blocks from my office. In another city I lived in, I was beaten and tortured for my political beliefs.

With the exception of the obvious, any city in north america is 100% immune from the attacks listed above so you can pretty well lump any place on this continent into your definition of 'grand living'.

Here's the major difference between this place and large American cities gents:

Toronto is VERY ethnically diverse and open to expressions of religious and cultural differences. Toronto is multi-cultural while Chicago or Atlanta are melting pots. Americans are first Americans and second italian/chinese/korean/mexican/polish etc. They put their country first and thus embrace the american homestead way of life.

Here ethnic groups bundle themselves up so tightly that they don't intermix enough to form a distinct identity. Toronto might be a great place to live if you are korean but that doesn't necesarily mean that a korean person will assimilate into the mainstream as they would in America.

To top it off, Toronto isn't actually such a big city. It's just bigger than other cities in Canada and most America cities. However, it is miniscule compared to New York, Los Angeles, London, Toyko, etc.. Even Chicago is twice the size. Toronto needs to develop a real identity of its own before it can be considered a real city. New Yorkers are tough because they struggled to get anywhere in that town. There is no such sense of accomplishment in Toronto and the lack of integration between the cultures will keep it that way.

None of this means that you can't find your groove in Toronto. People are people- open yourself up and you're definitely find your niche in this town but don't expect a parade at your doorstep.

 

[ontario]

Toronto people have a certain reserve and distance about them; but, once you break through the ice you usually find a warm and friendly and real person. And you can have lifetime friendships with them.

Places like L.A. on the other hand. People there are really superficial and empty and all wrapped up in themselves. There you can have a lot of acquaintances but not have any friends.

That's bullshit man! LA is 10 times the city that Toronto is! You have to make it there to stand out. Most people fail and head back to where they came from in shame. The winners stay and never leave. That doesn't mean there aren't any good people there though.

 

[gentle_lover]

So I just got off the phone with the wife, who was telling me that she got a parking ticket after lingering a bit long at long with a GF. We own two cars - one I purchased here, and my car that I brought to Canada with me, that still has U.S. plates because it is still registered to the home I have back in the U.S. Wife was driving the U.S. car because she prefers to not drive the big SUV when she can avoid it.

Anyway....she comes out...and the cop is writing her a ticket. NP - she had it coming. BUT, she tells me some BITCH who was just walking down the street actually took it upon herself to stop her and give her lecture about "you Americans".

HOW FUCKING ARROGANT IS THAT???!!! How goddamn high and mighty to you have to be to think you can lecture somone for getting a parking ticket??!! WTF does being an American have to do with getting a parking ticket??? Canadians don't get fucking parking tickets???!!!

My wife didn't used to believe me when I told her I suffered insults almost daily frm Canadians for the crime of beng American. She has since come around, but I guess she is now convinced.

What is it with (some of) you people???!!!

I agree with you man. Why they hate or dislike Americans? Maybe they just envy Americans and then trying to be different. How different can they be that is the question. Canada and US are pretty much the same in many ways.
Maybe that is why, we have "I am Canadian" beer. Maybe it is because they run out of things about trying to be different so hard and plus, since there are many Canadians who hate or dislike American, it is a marketing strategy to have a beer with "I am Canadian" label on it. That is just my opinions.

 

[ontario]

I agree with you man. Why they hate or dislike Americans? Maybe they just envy Americans and then trying to be different. How different can they be that is the question. Canada and US are pretty much the same in many ways.
Maybe that is why, we have "I am Canadian" beer. Maybe it is because they run out of things about trying to be different so hard and plus, since there are many Canadians who hate or dislike American, it is a marketing strategy to have a beer with "I am Canadian" label on it. That is just my opinions.

Canadians as a whole don't hate Americans at all. Those who do wrongly associate the us federal government as representative of each and every citizen out of pure ignorance.

 

[gentle_lover]

Canadians as a whole don't have Americans at all. Those who do wrongly associate the us federal government as representative of each and every citizen out of pure ignorance.

Absolutely, Canada and US have different government.

 

[Tick]

No shocker here...

Try this one on for size... walk up to one of the post-hayseed Torontonians who's lived there for five years or so, originally from some bumblefuck town out past Sudbury, and tell them you're from Hamilton.

The reaction is entertaining, the word "Hamilton" causes almost the same look as if you just puked on their shoe.

 

[FOOTSNIFFER]

I've never seen so many depressed/apathetic people in my life as I've seen right here in crappy ol'T.O. People who love it here are probably one of the delusional, self-absorbed idiots ambling around the streets here trying their darndest to ignore everybody else. Satisfied torontonians are just people who've never LIVED (as opposed to just visited) anywhere else and think they live in a happening place if they can buy a vietnamese Pho in a shop around the corner...semething that they rarely do in any event.

And the women!!! Don't get me started. Why do you think the sp scene here is so well developed?? Because the relations between the sexes here is just so TOXIC. Attempts at conversation in fully public places are looked upon by alot of girls here almost as a prelude to an assault, so extreme is the alarm that so often plays across their faces. Meanwhile, if you're overly nice in an attempt to allay any fears they might have about you, they find you too 'nice'....huhhhhhh??? We might have comfort and prosperity here, but thee just is not a whit of 'culture'.......

 

[Firebot]

So I just got off the phone with the wife, who was telling me that she got a parking ticket after lingering a bit long at long with a GF. We own two cars - one I purchased here, and my car that I brought to Canada with me, that still has U.S. plates because it is still registered to the home I have back in the U.S. Wife was driving the U.S. car because she prefers to not drive the big SUV when she can avoid it.

Anyway....she comes out...and the cop is writing her a ticket. NP - she had it coming. BUT, she tells me some BITCH who was just walking down the street actually took it upon herself to stop her and give her lecture about "you Americans".

HOW FUCKING ARROGANT IS THAT???!!! How goddamn high and mighty to you have to be to think you can lecture somone for getting a parking ticket??!! WTF does being an American have to do with getting a parking ticket??? Canadians don't get fucking parking tickets???!!!

My wife didn't used to believe me when I told her I suffered insults almost daily frm Canadians for the crime of beng American. She has since come around, but I guess she is now convinced.

What is it with (some of) you people???!!!

People in Canada really really REALLY...REALLY hate Bush. Toronto is a largely liberal city, and absolutly despise American politics.

Don't let that fool you though. On 9/11 all international flights going into the US were diverted to Canada, most landing at Pearson International Airport. Most people were still shocked at what happened, but when I rode the Subway back, there were 2 Americans who were on the Subway from being diverted, and were talking about what was going on. Others joined in the discussion and even offered what they could do to help.

It's a very thin line of 'hate' meant more for your government.

 

[goodtime]

True, DCer beginning to sport the stuck-up attitude. But some of the friendest DC, Conn, & Balt folks are flocking to the Eden center

Whoops, that should be Virginia not Conn.

 

[goodtime]

...familiar with Buckhead. My apartment was there - I lived there for 4 months while onsite with the client, stay there when I return once a month.

Oh, judging by your' inter-state comment, I didn't doubt you're familiar with city of 'Peachtree'. Merely pointing out to others unfamiliar with the area.

No offence but some Americans wear their stars & stripes on their sleeves. It's the loud & arrogant attitude & the "we're better than...", some project that makes American target, both here & Europe.

I've tons of U.S. relatives, friends & coworkers. I spend a lot of last 20 yrs in U.S. Mosts Americans are humble, but few think they own the world. It's the few that ruins the American image here & overseas.

I do find many Windy city dwellers find the loud & arrogant category, follow by Motor city, lastly City of brotherly love. I love Chicago & Philly, grown to accepted it over the years.

In 1 extended European trip, the Europeans in group considered we Canadians as 'us' but the Americans as 'them'. In this case, GWB politics was a big part of it.

 

[goodtime]

Americans are first Americans and second italian/chinese/korean/mexican/polish etc. They put their country first and thus embrace the american homestead way of life.

Here ethnic groups bundle themselves up so tightly that they don't intermix enough to form a distinct identity. Toronto might be a great place to live if you are korean but that doesn't necesarily mean that a korean person will assimilate into the mainstream as they would in America.

Guess you're not talking about LA south-central, remember the excuse for riot looting?

In terms of assimilate, big complain with the Hispanic workers in last while was complain many can't speak a work of english. NJ huge complain with the Spanish McDonald Ad off Jersey Turnpike. Same deal there, just depends where you look.

 

[RTRD]

I understand that...for the most part...

People in Canada really really REALLY...REALLY hate Bush. Toronto is a largely liberal city, and absolutly despise American politics.

Don't let that fool you though. On 9/11 all international flights going into the US were diverted to Canada, most landing at Pearson International Airport. Most people were still shocked at what happened, but when I rode the Subway back, there were 2 Americans who were on the Subway from being diverted, and were talking about what was going on. Others joined in the discussion and even offered what they could do to help.

It's a very thin line of 'hate' meant more for your government.

...but that doesn't excuse the behavior.

I am here because of 9/11. There was nobody more grateful to Canadians for welcoming me to their home 4 years ago when I lost mine. And at the top of that list would be my favorite Canadian, my now wife who extended the invite.

Now, 4 years later my soul has been darkened. I went from thinking this place was HEAVEN (at least compared to NYC, which I hated) to periodically wondering how I am going to get out of this house I just moved into. Hell, the the M-R-S could work in the U.S. when probably already be there.

A parking ticket doesn't have shit to do with politics. Insults have nothing to do with politics.

If a person isn't intelligent enough to be able to understand that the person in front of them doesn't represent an entire nation AND its government, then they are an ignorant fuck in addition to being rude.

The explanation my wife has given me is still the one that rings the most true - it is little brother, big brother syndrome. What else but a childish rant would explain an insult about having the #1 unemployment when the unemplyment rate in Canada traditionaly runs 2 to 3% higher than in the U.S.? But hell - why let facts and details get in the way of hurduling a good slag?

 

[Firebot]

...but that doesn't excuse the behavior.

I am here because of 9/11. There was nobody more grateful to Canadians for welcoming me to their home 4 years ago when I lost mine. And at the top of that list would be my favorite Canadian, by now wife who extended the invite.

Now, 4 years later my soul has been darkened. I went from thinking this place was HEAVEN (at least compared to NYC, which I hated) to periodically wondering how I am going to get out of this house i just move into. Hell, the the M-R-S could work in the U.S. when probably already be there.

A parking ticket doesn't have shit to do with politics. Insults have nothing to do with politics.

If a person isn't intelligent enough to be able to understand that they person in front of them doesn't represent an entire nation AND its government, then they are an ignorant fuck in addition to being rude.

The explanation my wife has given me is still the one that rings the most true - it is little brother, big brother syndrome. What else but a childish rant would explain an insult about having the #1 unemployment when the unemplyment rate in Canada traditionaly runs 2 to 3% higher than in the U.S.? But hell - why let facts and details get in the way of hurduling a good slag?

Get used to it. Americans mock Canadians all the time when going south, though it's not meant in a mean way. Right now simply isn't a politically correct time to be an American in Canada. You would find a similar response in any other country which opposes the war in Iraq. Sure it sounds unfair and petty, but that's the breaks. Sometimes it's good, such as being a Canadian visiting Holland where they will treat you like royalty, sometimes it's bad. Wait until Bush leave office or the US pulls out of Iraq.

As for the unemployment rate, the US uses fake numbers, and calculates the rate very differently then other countries to mask the true unemployment rate, ommiting people who have given up looking for a job for example. The rate calculations was even changed further under Clinton in his last years so that even numbers under Clinton compared to Bush are vastly different. Canada is actually at a better rate if US calculated its unemployment rate correctly. The last thing you want to do is use the US rate as an argument, since it will backfire.

 

[Don]

.The explanation my wife has given me is still the one that rings the most true - it is little brother, big brother syndrome.

Bingo. Most Canadians... even some of the more anti-american ones will (privately and reluctantly) agree to this to some degree. When you have this giant down below, it can be a little disconcerting and causes a bit of an identity crisis. Just look at the posts on TERB in the Lounge and Politics section and for a Toronto board, the US always the hot topic.

Of course America does some questionable (to put it nicely) things that piss other nations, including us, off. But no doubt the little-brother/big-brother thing plays its part

 

[Don]

I'm not trying to offend anybody here, but that is what happening here in Toronto. Not all of Torontonian are like that, but most of them. I hope Toronto will change to a better city one day

Don't you understand that Toronto is the centre of the universe???

Seriously though, Toronto is like NYC in the sense that its people think they are the centre of their countries and thus the attitude. And people are friendlier in the south.

Also maybe Toronto's (and english Canada's) closer ties to the UK plays a part. When visiting the UK I felt that the people in London were a bit reserved... like Toronto.

 

[goodtime]

Could it be they may be Canadians or ex-pats?

Record # moving to & travel in England. http://www.canucks.co.uk/ Saw many with Roots hats & T-shirts in London.

Aside, Canada Day celebration took over Trafalgar Square this year. Complete with a street hockey game. No beer at venue, as London police unsure how rowdy us Canadians may be with Alcohol.
http://www.canadadaylondon.com/CanadadayEventsPage.htm

 

[RTRD]

In response....

"Get used to it." "Sure it sounds unfair and petty, but that's the breaks."

Typcial Canadian arrogance. You don't think there is a difference between Doug and Bob McKenzie jokes and insults? Americans poke fun at Canadians, Canadians poke fun at Americans. That I could live with...nuggies back and forth.

That is a long fucking way from the notes that have been left on my car, or having someone literally stop in the street to lecture you about a parking ticket.

As for the unemployment rate, the US uses fake numbers, and calculates the rate very differently then other countries to mask the true unemployment rate, ommiting people who have given up looking for a job for example. The rate calculations was even changed further under Clinton in his last years so that even numbers under Clinton compared to Bush are vastly different. Canada is actually at a better rate if US calculated its unemployment rate correctly. The last thing you want to do is use the US rate as an argument, since it will backfire.

And more arrogance. The U.S. does it differently, so not only is it wrong, it has ulterior motive. What my eyes tell me is that I see more homelessness and indigent people in Toronto than I ever saw in Chicago, New York or Atlanta. What the numbers tell me is that Canada is significantly less efficent on a per capita GDP / GNP basis than the United States. What I know for a fact is people leave Canada at a 10 to 1 rate to go to the U.S....and I presume they are doing so to find opportunity.

Not that your post surprises me though - it is in line with the very point I am making...

 

[RTRD]

That is what I don't understand...

Bingo. Most Canadians... even some of the more anti-american ones will (privately and reluctantly) agree to this to some degree. When you have this giant down below, it can be a little disconcerting and causes a bit of an identity crisis. Just look at the posts on TERB in the Lounge and Politics section and for a Toronto board, the US always the hot topic.

Of course America does some questionable (to put it nicely) things that piss other nations, including us, off. But no doubt the little-brother/big-brother thing plays its part

..instead of defining being Canadian as "not being American", why not define being Canadian as something wholly unique?

The Western Canadians (Vancouver perhaps excepted) I have met do this best. They have their own unique attitudes and perspective. They stike me as "Canadian". I have met some really, really decent people from Edmonton and Calgary.

Torontoians on the other hand seem to just OBSESS about the United States...while all the time fighting to be more and more like it. New clothings stores with nams like 'American Outfitters'...lines outside of Starbucks while the Second Cup is empty...there are even night clubs here names after clubs and streets in New York, and I could buy the New York Times around the corner from my previous address.

Why not simply embrace being Canadian versus obsessing over not being American?