Who won the debate?

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Who won the debate?

  • Clinton

    Votes: 33 73.3%

  • Trump

    Votes: 12 26.7%
  • Total voters
    45
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Butler1000

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Fuji's above two points are also my thinking. He has always gone in with low expectations and shone as a result. Now it's primetime.

I wonder if it humbled him a bit. No doubt he will go back and watch it. The question is will it be with the right analysists who will critique him properly for a better showing.
 
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cye

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Better showing would mean a better Trump. That doesn't exist. Miss Housekeeping and Miss Piggy will haunt the stupid son of a bitch for the rest of the election. I'm not sure I have the stamina, the stamina, ...,the stamina to listen to this racist, misogynistic, lying ass any more.
 
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Smallcock

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"Trump wins strategically because in a blunt, clear style, he is saying things most Americans believe. Trump's opponents, including Holt and Clinton, felt good after the debate because their side was glib, articulate, and said things they and their friends believe to be true."

"Secretary Clinton is a professional politician. She has been campaigning as a volunteer, spouse, and candidate for 46 years (far longer than Trump suggested). "

"Of course the Intellectual Yet Idiot insiders would pick Hillary. They share her passion for words without meaning, analysis without facts, and promises without performance. They are more than for her. They are her."

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016...ont-believe-intellectual-yet-idiot-class.html
 
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Smallcock

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IM469

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Stock market rise based on Clinton's strong debate performance

Proof Trump is bad for business: Dow Rises More Than 100 Points Following Clinton-Trump Debate '"Investors have a better idea about policies of Hillary Clinton, so any sign she is closer to the presidency is a boost for markets," Link: http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...00-points-following-clinton-trump-debate.html

The Mexican peso rose as the result of the debate. It had fallen when it was believed that Trump had a shot at the presidency and destroying trade.
 
oldjones

oldjones

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Smallcock said:
"Trump wins strategically because in a blunt, clear style, he is saying things most Americans believe. … Clinton, … was glib, articulate, and said things they and their friends believe …"
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016...ont-believe-intellectual-yet-idiot-class.html
Click to expand...
On the belief scale, your source said it's a dead heat. Which candidate "most Americans" agree with will become known on Election Day. Your Fox quote doesn't even offer a popularity phone-in to back their blinkered view of what "most Americans" believe.

Anyone who claims that inarticulate Trumperish like: "I have a son. He's 10 years old. He has computers. He is so good with these computers, it's unbelievable. The security aspect of cyber is very, very tough. And maybe it's hardly do-able. But I will say, we are not doing the job we should be doing, but that's true throughout our whole governmental society." reflects most Americans' beliefs, is clearly insulting their intelligence. And that's only what Trump said in a national debate he studied up for. For smaller, more partisan crowds, he's been far less intelligible.

He did study, didn't he? Or does Fox think the guy with his finger on the WMD trigger should go with whatever drivels outta his mouth at the moment?
 
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mjg1

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Bud Plug

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Bud Plug

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oldjones said:
On the belief scale, your source said it's a dead heat. Which candidate "most Americans" agree with will become known on Election Day. Your Fox quote doesn't even offer a popularity phone-in to back their blinkered view of what "most Americans" believe.

Anyone who claims that inarticulate Trumperish like: "I have a son. He's 10 years old. He has computers. He is so good with these computers, it's unbelievable. The security aspect of cyber is very, very tough. And maybe it's hardly do-able. But I will say, we are not doing the job we should be doing, but that's true throughout our whole governmental society." reflects most Americans' beliefs, is clearly insulting their intelligence. And that's only what Trump said in a national debate he studied up for. For smaller, more partisan crowds, he's been far less intelligible.

He did study, didn't he? Or does Fox think the guy with his finger on the WMD trigger should go with whatever drivels outta his mouth at the moment?
Click to expand...
I agree that Trump is far less articulate than Clinton.

The odd thing is that I usually understand what Trump is trying to say (often badly). In your example, I think it's clear that he's expressing the opinion that people become so proficient on computers at such an early age in their lives now that it may prove impossible for governments to completely eliminate cyber crime.

I can't say the same for the things Clinton says. As a an example, when asked in the debate about how she's going to help create more middle class jobs, she said (paraphrasing) "Someone's going to become the world leader in green energy." What? Is she arguing that you can create a market for energy that costs several times that of conventional energy sources, and that, even if it that were possible, there would be MORE jobs in this clean energy industry than currently exist in the "dirty" energy sector it would supplant, and that you could market this type of energy to other countries (Canada already has a surplus of electricity production)? And all of this is going to solve the problem of inadequate middle class employment opportunities? None of this makes any sense to me. And this was the best answer she could come up after preparing for the debate for nearly 2 weeks? A middle class economy based on overpriced clean energy that can't be exported?

So, I understand what Clinton is saying. I just have a harder time believing anything she says, because either its proven to be a lie or, on any rational analysis, doesn't make sense.

Trump is a poor model for clear speech. Clinton is a poor model for clear thinking.
 
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Bud Plug

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IM469 said:
Proof Trump is bad for business: Dow Rises More Than 100 Points Following Clinton-Trump Debate '"Investors have a better idea about policies of Hillary Clinton, so any sign she is closer to the presidency is a boost for markets," Link: http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...00-points-following-clinton-trump-debate.html

The Mexican peso rose as the result of the debate. It had fallen when it was believed that Trump had a shot at the presidency and destroying trade.
Click to expand...
Rising stock prices are good for investors. They aren't necessarily good for the domestic economy. If American traded stocks rise because of profits made on the reduced cost of manufacturing goods (because production was moved to China or Mexico) the overall impact on the economy has to include consideration of the reduction of consumer spending and reduction of the tax base due to reduced middle income employment.

Healthy stock prices are important to enable companies to attract investment capital, but what really matters to the economy of a country is where that capital is invested, and whether employment is created.

It's no mystery why Wall Street is firmly behind Clinton, and why Clinton doesn't want to share what she's had to say to Wall Street in her highly compensated speeches.

When you think about it, that explains why Clinton can make the promises she does to big unions like getting rid of "right to work". She can say anything, because she plans to build an economy that doesn't have any private sector jobs worth unionizing anyway.

p.s. A falling peso and rising US stock prices go hand in hand for US companies with Mexican manufacturing operations, for obvious reasons.
 
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Frankfooter

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Even Trump's aides are conceding he lost the debate, though they won't admit that publicly.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/28/politics/donald-trump-debate-reaction/index.html

CBC had good story on Trump and is charges of racism in NY, where he was caught twice doing the same screening of tenants by race and settled out of court twice. Also interesting discussion of Trump's real estate business backing of the mob in NY, and pointing out that its his use of mob connections that has given him his Russian connections.
 
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Smallcock

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Smallcock

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fuji

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Real, scientific post debate polls are coming out now:

Clinton up 7 in Michigan

Clinton leads Trump in New Hampshire

Clinton ahead by 4 in Florida

Here's Gallup:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-hi...nald-trump-in-first-debate-by-a-large-margin/

Hillary Clinton won the first presidential debate by a huge margin of victory, besting Donald Trump in public perception by 34 points, according to a Gallup poll out Thursday.

Gallup found that Americans who saw the debate believed Clinton was the runaway victor, 61 percent to Trump’s 27 percent. That 34-point advantage is one of the highest margins post-debate since the 1960s.

Clinton’s debate victory was about as strong as her husband’s in his first 1996 debate with Bob Dole, but fell short of Mitt Romney’s first 2012 debate over President Obama, where the Republican nominee had a 52-point advantage.

Historically, however, winning a first debate doesn’t necessarily augur victory at the polls. President Obama overtook Romney in the following two debates in 2012 debate, and while John Kerry was believed to be the clear winner of all three presidential debates, George W. Bush won the election in 2004.

....
 
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Smallcock

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fuji said:
Real, scientific post debate polls are coming out now:

Clinton up 7 in Michigan

Clinton leads Trump in New Hampshire

Clinton ahead by 4 in Florida

Here's Gallup:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-hi...nald-trump-in-first-debate-by-a-large-margin/

Hillary Clinton won the first presidential debate by a huge margin of victory, besting Donald Trump in public perception by 34 points, according to a Gallup poll out Thursday.

Gallup found that Americans who saw the debate believed Clinton was the runaway victor, 61 percent to Trump’s 27 percent. That 34-point advantage is one of the highest margins post-debate since the 1960s.

Clinton’s debate victory was about as strong as her husband’s in his first 1996 debate with Bob Dole, but fell short of Mitt Romney’s first 2012 debate over President Obama, where the Republican nominee had a 52-point advantage.

Historically, however, winning a first debate doesn’t necessarily augur victory at the polls. President Obama overtook Romney in the following two debates in 2012 debate, and while John Kerry was believed to be the clear winner of all three presidential debates, George W. Bush won the election in 2004.

....
Click to expand...
Tom Bevan: Trump Closes The Gap In Key States
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/09/30/tom_bevan_trump_closes_the_gap_in_key_states.html
 
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Smallcock

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Smallcock

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fuji said:
That's funny! They forgot to mention that before the debate he was leading in Florida. Now he is closing the gap.

Hilarious!
Click to expand...
"States" is plural. Florida is singular.
 
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