Why are women ALWAYS the victim??

[Bud Plug]

I guess this thread demonstrates how people can interpret the same video somewhat differently.

What I saw was:

1. The woman makes her way to the crowded bar in the "customary" fashion. She puts her hand on the back of the guy to her right to let him know she's trying to squeeze in.
2. Johnson doesn't do this. He simply jams his way behind her. He appears to bump into her. By the way he's swaying around, he appears to be drunk.
3. You can see Johnson's right hand grabbing on to the bar as he squeezes in. His back had to be in contact with hers as he pushed by, and it would appear impossible that his left hand touched her in the process.
4. I don't see her trying to intentionally block him from getting to the bar.
5. She initiates the exchange of words. He appears to say something back, but she seems to be raising her fist even as she's turning to start the verbal altercation.
6. He grabs her right arm and pins it to her chest. She gets more animated in whatever she's saying and struggles. He says something animated to her.
7. She appears to realize she can't break his hold on her, and tries to punch him in the face with her closed left fist. She makes glancing contact with his left cheek.
8. He immediately strikes her in the middle of her face with his right fist. She is startled, but doesn't go down.
9. The immediately disengage, and Johnson leaves the bar.
10. She gets a bloody nose. She doesn't need to sit down immediately. She and another women leave the bar area together, as the other women holds her hair out of her face and rubs her back to comfort her.


What do I conclude from the video alone, with no audio?

a. Johnson barged his way to the bar, probably drunk, in a way most bar regulars would find rude.
b. She confronted him about it, and threatened to hit him (by raising her fist).
c. Johnson restrained her arm, rather than backing away from the problem.
d. My money on the verbal exchange, while she was restrained, would be something like: (her) "let the F go of me", (him) "put your fist down, B", (her, as she punches) "let the F go".
e. Her punch amounted to a jab. His punch was also a jab. Had he put his weight behind his punch, she certainly would have gone down (especially if she was drunk, which I'm betting she was).
f. His jab was far more effective than hers.

My bet is that, in the court of public opinion, he takes the majority (but not all) of the blame for this. His rudeness provoked the confrontation. He should either have backed away as his first reaction to her annoyance with him, or backed away once he restrained her arm. Why didn't he? Probably (based on his swaying) because he was drunk. As a matter of law, they both committed an assault. However, he will get more criticism, as he was the one who set the confrontation in motion, and who was in a position to prevent the situation from escalating to an exchange of blows.

They will both be charged with assault, and neither will face any serious punishment from the court.

In the final analysis, he will be judged as the immature young athlete with a lot of growing up to do that he is. She will be judged as the low class drunken brawler that she is.

And everyone will forget all about it until the NFL Network needs stories to talk about during his NFL draft year.

 

[onthebottom]

this is saying that he has no right to defend himself against an adult woman trying to injure or maim him. women are adults NOT children speaking of children. this is regular occurrence in my old country and other developing countries

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news...ce-of-corporal-punishment-angers-some-parents

teachers love to beat children if they get less than 90%(they still get assaulted if they get 80 something percent)

women are more coddled than children

Those teachers would be dismissed in the U.S.

And although it's a silly scenario, no he should not fight an adult female, if he's attached he should flee and dial 911. Unless she's an elite athlete she'd never catch him (he's crazy fast).

And yes, the Pussy Pass is alive and well.

 

[Smallcock]

Why would the guy be a victim here?

Girl was at bar first
He tries to push in
She tells him to back off
He grabs her
They argue
He hits her

Very obvious he started the altercation + very obvious he threw the first punch
Guy is guilty

You must have watched a different video from the rest of us. (But based on your posts in other threads, you're clearly speaking from racial animosity rather than the spirit of objective truth)

He should be charged, but she should be charged, too.

The fact that he is the only one in trouble speaks volumes about the state of society.

 

[MelanieJolliet]

So she was justified in making a scene to begin with, in a crowded nightclub? If she kept her big mouth shut and moved her ass out of the way so the guy could get up to bar to order (we've all grown impatient waiting patiently to get up to bar to order another drink) then none of that would have happened!

Nevermind who raised a hand first. She shouldn't be fighting with men in bars (Ffs).

 

[barnacler]

What is the basis of this 'don't hit women' idea?

Being physically stronger, so it is an 'unfair' fight.

if that is the case, then lets forget about gender, and just say you should never hit anyone weaker than you . so a little guy, or a really old guy comes up to me and assaults me, I have to just take it. yeah right.

Equal rights = equal fights

 

[Smallcock]

As a matter of law, they both committed an assault.

They will both be charged with assault, and neither will face any serious punishment from the court.

I don't have all the facts but according to the OP, she was not charged with anything.

If that's true, would you agree that there is a problem?

 

[MissCroft]

Nevermind who raised a hand first. She shouldn't be fighting with men in bars (Ffs).

What if he is grabbing at you and hits you first?

This happened to me and I gave him a black eye. Everybody clapped and the bartender put my drinks on the house and he never bothered me again.

 

[MelanieJolliet]

It's like Whoopi said in video, if you are 4'3" woman and hit a 6'4" guy don't be surprised if he hits back!

Girls cannot operate on emotion (or under the guise of being disrespected) and raise their (feeble) fists and mouth off to someone bigger and stronger then themselves and expect complete immunity. There will be consequences at some point. Too many girls have been raised thinking they are right! About everything and no one should hurt or disrespect them. Men have been raised to not hit a woman but woman have not been raised to not hit a man (or anyone for that matter). If you want to play you gotta pay!

 

[MelanieJolliet]

I have never had anyone grab at me or hit me first. Maybe because I would move out of the way first to allow a fellow human being to have their turn. And I have never had the need to hit anyone for any reason. I do not have the mindset that everyone has to bow down to me or my wants so I wait my turn and allow people to have theirs. And if someone shows me disrespect in a crowded nightclub, who cares? I have bigger fish to fry. Having fun is name of the game so why take time out to set a complete stranger straight as to how they behave in my presence. It's not a place or time to advocating for rights! That's what I mean when I say it shouldn't have happened in the first place.

 

[MissCroft]

I have never had anyone grab at me or hit me first. Maybe because I would move out of the way first to allow a fellow human being to have their turn. And I have never had the need to hit anyone for any reason...............................That's what I mean when I say it shouldn't have happened in the first place.

I understand what you're saying but, in my case, I felt I had no choice. I reacted to an aggressive man who was grabbing my breasts and no one was doing anything. He hit me and I hit back. I am by no means a 'tough girl'. LOL I'm tiny.

The problem with the video is it really doesn't seem to show the whole thing or what was said, etc. But I agree that she raised her clutched fist and (tried to) hit him first and that was wrong.

 

[MelanieJolliet]

If his touching your boobs then of course you have a right to put a stop to it

But this one, and you and I both know, was just mouthing off. She was drunk and beligerent. She expected him to flirt his way into the space and when he didn't, she wanted to fight about it

 

[rhuarc29]

What I saw was the following:

1) They both shove their way to a crowded bar; he's more forceful.
2) She appears to let the initial jostling go, though she says something to him I imagine wasn't flattering. He seemingly ignores or didn't hear what she said.
3) She gets jostled a second time and immediately threatens physical violence by raising her right fist and supposedly saying some threatening things (ie "Back the fuck up"). She's also pushing on his chest with her left arm.
4) After a few seconds of this verbal abuse and threat of physical abuse, he grabs her arm. I don't see this as an escalation of the conflict. He's protecting himself. She seems surprised, like "how dare you put your hands on me!"
5) He appears to calm down for a couple seconds like he's trying to reason with her. It's not working. She's freaking out because he won't let go of her.
6) She puts her knee against his groin area, then kicks out. You also see another hand (her friend's?) come into the picture trying to break his grip. She follows her kick up with a sloppy punch that appears to strike him in the cheek and slides off to the side.
7) He seems angered that she just punched his face (who wouldn't be?), and all reason seems to leave his mind as he decks her. Hard.

My conclusions? It's a crowded bar. You're going to get jostled. They both forced there way in there. He was a bit rougher about it, but nothing really criminal there.

She got physical first by pushing on his chest with her left arm and also threatened physical violence first by raising her fist. His grab of her arm was completely justified in my mind as a protective measure. She then assaults him by both kicking him and punching his face. His response was disproportionately violent.

There's no doubt in my mind that she is at fault for instigating criminal actions, by purposefully pushing on him with her left arm and threatening to punch him. For that, and later for kicking and punching him, she should be charged with assault. For him, it comes down to whether or not you think his final action was justified by self-defense. I certainly think it's a mitigating factor, but not enough to let him completely off the hook. Both should get some minor sentence and that would be the end of it. It shouldn't even be an issue of sex.

 

[AdamH]

They're both assholes.. I don't think there are many bleeding hearts for the woman in this case..

Having said that, the dude's still a moron and I don't feel sorry for him one bit. He's a quarterback (I'm assuming not "starting", but still) for Florida State University and he's going to play fisticuffs with some drunk clam at a bar and assume nothing bad's gonna happen?? Fucking Darwin Award winner right there..

 

[nottyboi]

I guess this thread demonstrates how people can interpret the same video somewhat differently.

What I saw was:

1. The woman makes her way to the crowded bar in the "customary" fashion. She puts her hand on the back of the guy to her right to let him know she's trying to squeeze in.
2. Johnson doesn't do this. He simply jams his way behind her. He appears to bump into her. By the way he's swaying around, he appears to be drunk.
3. You can see Johnson's right hand grabbing on to the bar as he squeezes in. His back had to be in contact with hers as he pushed by, and it would appear impossible that his left hand touched her in the process.
4. I don't see her trying to intentionally block him from getting to the bar.
5. She initiates the exchange of words. He appears to say something back, but she seems to be raising her fist even as she's turning to start the verbal altercation.
6. He grabs her right arm and pins it to her chest. She gets more animated in whatever she's saying and struggles. He says something animated to her.
7. She appears to realize she can't break his hold on her, and tries to punch him in the face with her closed left fist. She makes glancing contact with his left cheek.
8. He immediately strikes her in the middle of her face with his right fist. She is startled, but doesn't go down.
9. The immediately disengage, and Johnson leaves the bar.
10. She gets a bloody nose. She doesn't need to sit down immediately. She and another women leave the bar area together, as the other women holds her hair out of her face and rubs her back to comfort her.


What do I conclude from the video alone, with no audio?

a. Johnson barged his way to the bar, probably drunk, in a way most bar regulars would find rude.
b. She confronted him about it, and threatened to hit him (by raising her fist).
c. Johnson restrained her arm, rather than backing away from the problem.
d. My money on the verbal exchange, while she was restrained, would be something like: (her) "let the F go of me", (him) "put your fist down, B", (her, as she punches) "let the F go".
e. Her punch amounted to a jab. His punch was also a jab. Had he put his weight behind his punch, she certainly would have gone down (especially if she was drunk, which I'm betting she was).
f. His jab was far more effective than hers.

My bet is that, in the court of public opinion, he takes the majority (but not all) of the blame for this. His rudeness provoked the confrontation. He should either have backed away as his first reaction to her annoyance with him, or backed away once he restrained her arm. Why didn't he? Probably (based on his swaying) because he was drunk. As a matter of law, they both committed an assault. However, he will get more criticism, as he was the one who set the confrontation in motion, and who was in a position to prevent the situation from escalating to an exchange of blows.

They will both be charged with assault, and neither will face any serious punishment from the court.

In the final analysis, he will be judged as the immature young athlete with a lot of growing up to do that he is. She will be judged as the low class drunken brawler that she is.

And everyone will forget all about it until the NFL Network needs stories to talk about during his NFL draft year.

In a crowded bar some pushing and shoving to get to the bar is common. She took offense far to easily. A bit of push and shove is the only way you can get around in some clubs. And yes, being bumped into by drunks is part of going to a crowded bar.

 

[Bud Plug]

What I saw was the following:

1) They both shove their way to a crowded bar; he's more forceful.
2) She appears to let the initial jostling go, though she says something to him I imagine wasn't flattering. He seemingly ignores or didn't hear what she said.
3) She gets jostled a second time and immediately threatens physical violence by raising her right fist and supposedly saying some threatening things (ie "Back the fuck up"). She's also pushing on his chest with her left arm.
4) After a few seconds of this verbal abuse and threat of physical abuse, he grabs her arm. I don't see this as an escalation of the conflict. He's protecting himself. She seems surprised, like "how dare you put your hands on me!"
5) He appears to calm down for a couple seconds like he's trying to reason with her. It's not working. She's freaking out because he won't let go of her.
6) She puts her knee against his groin area, then kicks out. You also see another hand (her friend's?) come into the picture trying to break his grip. She follows her kick up with a sloppy punch that appears to strike him in the cheek and slides off to the side.
7) He seems angered that she just punched his face (who wouldn't be?), and all reason seems to leave his mind as he decks her. Hard.

My conclusions? It's a crowded bar. You're going to get jostled. They both forced there way in there. He was a bit rougher about it, but nothing really criminal there.

She got physical first by pushing on his chest with her left arm and also threatened physical violence first by raising her fist. His grab of her arm was completely justified in my mind as a protective measure. She then assaults him by both kicking him and punching his face. His response was disproportionately violent.

There's no doubt in my mind that she is at fault for instigating criminal actions, by purposefully pushing on him with her left arm and threatening to punch him. For that, and later for kicking and punching him, she should be charged with assault. For him, it comes down to whether or not you think his final action was justified by self-defense. I certainly think it's a mitigating factor, but not enough to let him completely off the hook. Both should get some minor sentence and that would be the end of it. It shouldn't even be an issue of sex.

Interesting. Certainly a slightly different take on what's shown on the video. A couple of questions about your review (I'll refer to your points by their number):

1) Doesn't it matter that she had already arrived at the bar when he barges into her? Isn't it clear that the problem started when he jostled her, not that they jostled each other trying to get to the bar at the same time?
3) Is there a report somewhere setting out what they said to each other? I don't hear any audio on the link. While she has her forearm out, it looks likes she's warding him off. I don't see her hand pushing him off. Watch that part again. You can clearly see that her left arm is not extended at that point.
4) Isn't grabbing someone always going to escalate any conflict? In my experience, as soon as one person lays hands on another, it's going to get physical.
5) Once he's grabbing her, he appears to be swaying and talking in an animated manner (he's moving his head around in a way that people do when they're trying to emphasize what they're saying). When people are trying to talk calmly, they usually hold their head still. Why do you perceive him as calm and trying to reason with her?
6) What appears to be in his right hand at 40 seconds? Is that what you see as the knee to the groin? It's very hard to see.
7) All of us have experiences where we are momentarily angry about being hurt by someone else, either intentionally or carelessly (happens with kids hurting adults carelessly all the time). I don't think you'd suggest that it would always be understandable to strike back (almost like a reflex), are you? I actually disagree that he hit her all that hard. I don't think there's any way she would have kept her feet if he had actually attempted to hit her with a full strength punch.

It's true that in a crowd you're going to get jostled, but isn't it also true that most respectful people try to minimize it and apologize when they accidently make more contact than anyone would be comfortable with?

I also think she should be charged for assault for the simple reason that she punched him after having threatened to punch him. He also committed an assault when he grabbed her and then subsequently punched her. I don't see the kicking or the pushing that you do, but I don't that it is either is necessary to find that they both committed an assault. I also agree that their sexes have nothing to do with the issue.

 

[nottyboi]

Interesting. Certainly a slightly different take on what's shown on the video. A couple of questions about your review (I'll refer to your points by their number):

1) Doesn't it matter that she had already arrived at the bar when he barges into her? Isn't it clear that the problem started when he jostled her, not that they jostled each other trying to get to the bar at the same time?
3) Is there a report somewhere setting out what they said to each other? I don't hear any audio on the link. While she has her forearm out, it looks likes she's warding him off. I don't see her hand pushing him off. Watch that part again. You can clearly see that her left arm is not extended at that point.
4) Isn't grabbing someone always going to escalate any conflict? In my experience, as soon as one person lays hands on another, it's going to get physical.
5) Once he's grabbing her, he appears to be swaying and talking in an animated manner (he's moving his head around in a way that people do when they're trying to emphasize what they're saying). When people are trying to talk calmly, they usually hold their head still. Why do you perceive him as calm and trying to reason with her?
6) What appears to be in his right hand at 40 seconds? Is that what you see as the knee to the groin? It's very hard to see.
7) All of us have experiences where we are momentarily angry about being hurt by someone else, either intentionally or carelessly (happens with kids hurting adults carelessly all the time). I don't think you'd suggest that it would always be understandable to strike back (almost like a reflex), are you? I actually disagree that he hit her all that hard. I don't think there's any way she would have kept her feet if he had actually attempted to hit her with a full strength punch.

It's true that in a crowd you're going to get jostled, but isn't it also true that most respectful people try to minimize it and apologize when they accidently make more contact than anyone would be comfortable with?

I also think she should be charged for assault for the simple reason that she punched him after having threatened to punch him. He also committed an assault when he grabbed her and then subsequently punched her. I don't see the kicking or the pushing that you do, but I don't that it is either is necessary to find that they both committed an assault. I also agree that their sexes have nothing to do with the issue.

He was clearly trying to get to the spot to her left but had to squeeze past her huge ass. And no, you do not "ward people off" with a clenched fist. WTF. It was clearly an aggressive move which he made a very reasonable attempt to defend. She then starts kicking him and swings at him, at which point he jabbed her and disengaged. I think what he did could be construed as self defence. He was defensive and disengaged as soon as he stunned her with the jab. Lets face it, he could have easily laid her to waste. Also she used nasty racist words so he was quite restrained.

 

[Bud Plug]

He was clearly trying to get to the spot to her left but had to squeeze past her huge ass. And no, you do not "ward people off" with a clenched fist. WTF. It was clearly an aggressive move which he made a very reasonable attempt to defend. She then starts kicking him and swings at him, at which point he jabbed her and disengaged. I think what he did could be construed as self defence. He was defensive and disengaged as soon as he stunned her with the jab. Lets face it, he could have easily laid her to waste. Also she used nasty racist words so he was quite restrained.

The warding off I was referring to was with the left arm. The clenched fist was the right hand. We were talking about what happened before the clenched fist.

Where was the kicking? You're the second person to mention it, but I can't see it in the video (just curious, because I don't think it matters much).

Did she use racist words? Is there a link to an account of what they said to one another?

The fact that he didn't hit her all that hard doesn't mean that striking her wasn't an assault. I don't think he's going to be able to prove that he needed to grab her arm, or that his "counter-punch" was in self defence. This isn't a case where he had no part in initiating the physical conflict. They should (and probably both will) face (minor) assault charges. When 2 people provoke each other and begin to fight, it doesn't matter who throws the first punch. Neither one of them will be allowed to claim self defence.

 

[rhuarc29]

Interesting. Certainly a slightly different take on what's shown on the video. A couple of questions about your review (I'll refer to your points by their number):

1) Doesn't it matter that she had already arrived at the bar when he barges into her? Isn't it clear that the problem started when he jostled her, not that they jostled each other trying to get to the bar at the same time?
3) Is there a report somewhere setting out what they said to each other? I don't hear any audio on the link. While she has her forearm out, it looks likes she's warding him off. I don't see her hand pushing him off. Watch that part again. You can clearly see that her left arm is not extended at that point.
4) Isn't grabbing someone always going to escalate any conflict? In my experience, as soon as one person lays hands on another, it's going to get physical.
5) Once he's grabbing her, he appears to be swaying and talking in an animated manner (he's moving his head around in a way that people do when they're trying to emphasize what they're saying). When people are trying to talk calmly, they usually hold their head still. Why do you perceive him as calm and trying to reason with her?
6) What appears to be in his right hand at 40 seconds? Is that what you see as the knee to the groin? It's very hard to see.
7) All of us have experiences where we are momentarily angry about being hurt by someone else, either intentionally or carelessly (happens with kids hurting adults carelessly all the time). I don't think you'd suggest that it would always be understandable to strike back (almost like a reflex), are you? I actually disagree that he hit her all that hard. I don't think there's any way she would have kept her feet if he had actually attempted to hit her with a full strength punch.

It's true that in a crowd you're going to get jostled, but isn't it also true that most respectful people try to minimize it and apologize when they accidently make more contact than anyone would be comfortable with?

I also think she should be charged for assault for the simple reason that she punched him after having threatened to punch him. He also committed an assault when he grabbed her and then subsequently punched her. I don't see the kicking or the pushing that you do, but I don't that it is either is necessary to find that they both committed an assault. I also agree that their sexes have nothing to do with the issue.

1) I don't think so. She jostled a couple people herself getting in there. I'm sure they were annoyed, but they smartly moved out of the way. Some jostling can be expected in a crowded bar. But yes, most people would apologize, but when two assholes meet, well...this happens.
3) I did watch that part again and still believe she was pushing on him. He retreats at one point and she follows him, so she had some force into it. This is immediately prior to when he grabbed her.
4) She had already laid an arm on him. Is that the same as hands? I'm just saying he had the right to prevent her from punching him. If there was no threat, then he would have been in the wrong.
5) Possibly so. It's hard to gauge the attitude there. But it appears to me as though he's trying to reason with her, even if he's still a little riled up.
6) I think you may need to watch the video again. That thing (drink) "in his right hand" is actually in someone else's left hand, not his. The person trying to break them apart which I assumed was the girl's friend. But yes, she had her knee up to his groin, then the kick happens at the same time the "friend" tries to break it up. It's not a full out kick, more trying to push him away.
7) Not at all. I think he responded inappropriately. I think it was a hard punch made a little softer by the way it landed...more from the side than straight on.

If all that happened was he walked way after her punch, I would say he did nothing at all wrong, including hold her arms, and that she should be charged with assault. But the scale of his response to her punch was a little too much.

 

[onthebottom]

The warding off I was referring to was with the left arm. The clenched fist was the right hand. We were talking about what happened before the clenched fist.

Where was the kicking? You're the second person to mention it, but I can't see it in the video (just curious, because I don't think it matters much).

Did she use racist words? Is there a link to an account of what they said to one another?

The fact that he didn't hit her all that hard doesn't mean that striking her wasn't an assault. I don't think he's going to be able to prove that he needed to grab her arm, or that his "counter-punch" was in self defence. This isn't a case where he had no part in initiating the physical conflict. They should (and probably both will) face (minor) assault charges. When 2 people provoke each other and begin to fight, it doesn't matter who throws the first punch. Neither one of them will be allowed to claim self defence.

:40 point in the video, two girls leave, the the blond and the football player go for those spots, she objects, raises her right fist, then knee (kick?), when he grabs her left hand (clenched fist) she punches him, then he punches her.

Again, he's 19, what's he doing in a bar?

 

[Captain Fantastic]

Let me get this straight: there are people defending a football player that jostled (first), put his hands on/grabbed (first) and then punched a woman (to end the encounter) at a bar?

Okay...