American Cities that are dying (7 American Cities in Decline)

[dood]

This is hardly ground-breaking news. These cities have been on the decline since the steel crisis of the 70's. Detroit can add civil unrest as another reason.

Toronto is a city that shows signs of decline. The city proper grows at a snail's pace, the financial house is not in order, and conservatives are in power in all three levels of government (two for now, three once Hudak gets in) and this will mean zero spending on infrastructure or expansion of services. Forget that expansion of the subway Ford talks about, even if the money was there shovels don't hit the ground around here unless there were 42 studies, 72 public consultations, 16 environmental assessments, 22 protests and sit-ins from special interest groups each wanting the money to go to a pet project like more food banks, homeless shelters, safe-injection sites, tax cuts, roads and freeways, a museum of something that nobody cares about, or some grand piece of public art that everyone will hate, so you'd be looking at 50 years for one km of track. 25 if the NIMBYs can be placated without too much of a fight. Don't forget all three levels of government have to spend about 15 years arguing that the other two levels of government should bear the entire cost of the project.


Toronto suffers from white-flight unless you want to pretend that the masses fueling the explosive growth in places like Milton, Oakville, Halton Hills and Bolton is really all immigrants. The west is the net benefactor of all this. The axis of power and capital is increasingly being tilted westward, and it's not at all improbable that within 20 years there will be half a million former Torontonians in Calgary who will remind the natives at every turn that they (Calgarians) are uncultured hicks, that the food and nightlife is better in Toronto, how great the Leafs are, and how Calgary just generally sucks -- just like the legion of former Montrealers in Toronto.

Excellent points and it's easy to see the "Eastern Envy" when it comes to any post about Calgary or the economic success of Western Canada. I have lived in both Toronto & I have lived in Calgary. I find that Toronto folks dislike the success of Calgary & the only way to put the city down is to use dated stereotypes bout it. For a city of just over 1 million it's got a vibrant nightlife & you're more like to find people out for sushi than steak. When you live there you understand that it's not oil that makes Calgary successful, it's the pro entrapaneur mentality of the city. Calgary is a city of entrapaneurs that put their neck out and take risks & flourish because of it. The unemployment rates between the two cities speak volumes. What many people don't understand about Calgary is that it's fiscally conservative rather than being socially conservative. The mayor in Calgary is a guy named Naheed Nenshi who is a visibile minority & a practising Muslim. He won by a landslide in the last election.

What few folks in the East recognize is that the West really has little connection with the east. There is little connection to many of the eastern based businesses & folks in the west have simply nurtured their own. This is true in Vancouver but more so in Calgary. You only need to come live in the West to understand that there is a huge divide between the the east & the west.

Ironically, even hippie socialist BC is more right wing and pro business than Ontario. In my opinion Vancouver trumps Toronto as a city. It's the only place in Canada where you can sun tan on your boat in False Creek & then go skiing the next day (and stand on the ski hill and see your boat). Calgary isn't far behind either. Great job opportunities & 45 minutes to the mountains. I lived there and I understand why people are so positive.

I'm a former Ontario guy and very honestly I could never imagine returning East. The odd time I come back home I'm greeted with rushed folks that drive too fast and have no time for you. There is more to life than that. Go west young man. Go west. You won't regret it.

 

[hinz]

See now, that's proof positive of my theory that what makes a city successful is a strong urban residential community, not a strong commercial community. (The chicken or the egg debate.)

I have always believed that if you have a strong urban residential community (i.e. people WANT to live in the inner city (like Toronto), then you will naturally attract and keep businesses in town. The opposite - a strong commercial base does not attract people to live downtown. Case in point this article about HSBC in dowtown Buffalo. The politicians of Buffalo would be wise to promote people LIVING in Downtown inner City Buffalo as opposed to sucking HSBC's cock. If Buffalo had a strong urban core that people actually wanted to live in - HSBC would be going nowhere.

LOL, it's too late for those suckers since this was 30 years in making.

HSBC was really dumb to take over this dog breakfast known then as Marine Midland Bank in 1980. It's a money pit, albeit not anywhere closed to trailer park trash loan business known as Household International.

BTW, wanna guess the color of HSBC's "cock"? Is he cut or uncut?

Do you think if HSBC threatened to pull out of Downtown Toronto that City Council would give a fuck?

Never.

Maybe for Toronto, maybe not for Vancouver.

Speaking of banks, the City Council would give a fuck when the bank in question is either one of RY, BNS, CM or TD.

Growing up in Hamilton I saw the exact same kind of backward thinking - bend over backwards to maintain or encourage commercial over residential in Downtown Hamilton. It never works.

Perhaps Hamilton is never meant to be a city based on Commerce.

BTW, how are things at Stelco/US Steel and Dofasco lately?

 

[james t kirk]

**Laughing**

Unionized workers are less likely to be shopping at Walmart because they can better afford to shop elsewhere.

Nothing like pulling "facts" out of your ass to destroy your credibility, LOL!

It's more an opinion, however, I'll take your word for it.

 

[hinz]

So for the shit cities, the political leaders are relevant, but for the good ones it's not?
Mugabe ruined a great country.. bad leadership is bad leadership..

Am I okay to say life was better when Ian Smith ran Rhodesia?

 

[james t kirk]

Am I okay to say life was better when Ian Smith ran Rhodesia?

Probably true in many ways.

 

[Kubrickfan]

As to New Orleans, as a New Orleans native and frequent visitor, the population may be lower but the city is not in decline in my opinion. In fact, New Orleans hasn't looked better since the 50s and 60s. Katrina was a horrible event, but a lot of long time locals say is was like "flushing the toilet" ... a lot of undesireables took their business elsewhere, a lot of money was pumped into the city, and a lot of old beat up areas of the city that flooded were torn down and rebuilt where possible.

That will likely change over time, of course, as most of the same stupid idiots, or their associates, are still running the city.

 

[Asterix]

As to New Orleans, as a New Orleans native and frequent visitor, the population may be lower but the city is not in decline in my opinion. In fact, New Orleans hasn't looked better since the 50s and 60s. Katrina was a horrible event, but a lot of long time locals say is was like "flushing the toilet" ... a lot of undesireables took their business elsewhere, a lot of money was pumped into the city, and a lot of old beat up areas of the city that flooded were torn down and rebuilt where possible.

That will likely change over time, of course, as most of the same stupid idiots, or their associates, are still running the city.

Well, and the city continues to sink and the sea will only get higher. Borrowed time and not that long. The Native Americans warned the French not to build there but they wouldn't listen.

 

[Kubrickfan]

Well, and the city continues to sink and the sea will only get higher. Borrowed time and not that long. The Native Americans warned the French not to build there but they wouldn't listen.

There are a few parts of the city that are above sea level (along Magazine Street, which is one of the original centers of commerce in the city) and extending out to parts of Metaririe and beyond), but not many. I would say that its possible for cities to survive that are below sea level, but its obviously quite expensive and requires a level of expertise and governance that the local government is likely incapable of providing.

 

[oldjones]

Am I okay to say life was better when Ian Smith ran Rhodesia?

OK to say it, but only if you tell us what colour you are.

 

[oldjones]

what percentage of his millions does Mikey Moore give to the people who made him a millionaire??

A question you could ask of any capitalist—like Zuckerberg from Facebook, or the media guys who sell our eyeballs to advertisers on the cable channels they charge us to watch—but it's easy to discover from Wikipedia that Roger and Me grossed over six mill US, and that "Warner Bros. gave Moore $3 million for distribution license, a very large amount for a first time filmmaker and unprecedented for a documentary. Part of the distribution deal required Warner Bros. to buy four houses for the families evicted in the film and give away 20,000 tickets to the unemployed workers."

In the best traditions of mature capitalism, Warner's risked nothing to make the "…film, financed partly by Moore's mortgaging of his home and partly by the settlement money from a lawsuit he filed against Mother Jones for wrongful termination." If Moore's message hadn't appealed to all those audiences, he'd have been broke and on the street. And since it was Warners who made most of the money from those poor folks, howcum you're not asking what they gave?

Just what general standards of giving to "…the people who made him a millionaire" do you apply to a successful entrepreneur, or are you singling out Moore for special judgement?

 

[oldjones]

…and another thing.

Interesting how long this cities in decline topic has gone on with only the Flint references dragging Detroit into it. Destroyed by the white flight expressways that mutilated its neighbourhoods so the expats could drive in and out from the 'burbs' until the manufacturing teat ran dry, torched by those without hope who were left behind to try to survive without any of the things cities need to provide, it's now shrunk back to a mere town and actively seeking Agriculture Department help to encourage farming as an economic activity.

That makes it clear if nothing else does, that what makes a city is the decision people make to live there, for whatever reason, and when you've destroyed everything else and shipped the jobs away you've still got location, land and hungry folks. Remember you highschool history about how cities ended the feudal system (watch Pillars of the Earth for the TV potboiler version) and read Geoffrey West on why a city is like an elephant.

 

[james t kirk]

A question you could ask of any capitalist—like Zuckerberg from Facebook, or the media guys who sell our eyeballs to advertisers on the cable channels they charge us to watch—but it's easy to discover from Wikipedia that Roger and Me grossed over six mill US, and that "Warner Bros. gave Moore $3 million for distribution license, a very large amount for a first time filmmaker and unprecedented for a documentary. Part of the distribution deal required Warner Bros. to buy four houses for the families evicted in the film and give away 20,000 tickets to the unemployed workers."

In the best traditions of mature capitalism, Warner's risked nothing to make the "…film, financed partly by Moore's mortgaging of his home and partly by the settlement money from a lawsuit he filed against Mother Jones for wrongful termination." If Moore's message hadn't appealed to all those audiences, he'd have been broke and on the street. And since it was Warners who made most of the money from those poor folks, howcum you're not asking what they gave?

Just what general standards of giving to "…the people who made him a millionaire" do you apply to a successful entrepreneur, or are you singling out Moore for special judgement?

Papa is just like any other typical conservative Demagogue when it comes to attacking those that he sees as a threat to his way of thinking. They just love to play the hypocrisy card - usually without caring about things like facts.

 

[james t kirk]

Interesting how long this cities in decline topic has gone on with only the Flint references dragging Detroit into it. Destroyed by the white flight expressways that mutilated its neighbourhoods so the expats could drive in and out from the 'burbs' until the manufacturing teat ran dry, torched by those without hope who were left behind to try to survive without any of the things cities need to provide, it's now shrunk back to a mere town and actively seeking Agriculture Department help to encourage farming as an economic activity.

That makes it clear if nothing else does, that what makes a city is the decision people make to live there, for whatever reason, and when you've destroyed everything else and shipped the jobs away you've still got location, land and hungry folks. Remember you highschool history about how cities ended the feudal system (watch Pillars of the Earth for the TV potboiler version) and read Geoffrey West on why a city is like an elephant.

Very true.

The destruction of Detroit proper was largely the result of 50's and 60's "planning mentality" that the inner cities would be places of work and commerce and people would live comforable lives in the suburbs and be whisked to work via expressways in 10 minutes from their homes in the suburbs.

The same (idiotic) mentality that almost gave Toronto "The Spadina Expressway" and the "The Scarborough Expressway". (Which believe it or not there are still guys who want to build it.)

Thanks Jane Jacobs.

 

[papasmerf]

Papa is just like any other typical conservative Demagogue when it comes to attacking those that he sees as a threat to his way of thinking. They just love to play the hypocrisy card - usually without caring about things like facts.

If by that you mean I would rather see good paying jobs then a mike moore movie. You are correct.

 

[WoodPeckr]

Papa is just like any other typical conservative Demagogue when it comes to attacking those that he sees as a threat to his way of thinking. They just love to play the hypocrisy card - usually without caring about things like facts.

You will soon discover communicating and or reasoning with him just may be more difficult than communicating with the dead.....

 

[papasmerf]

You will soon discover communicating and or reasoning with him just may be more difficult than communicating with the dead.....

You are at best a stooge

At worst you are Byron Brown

 

[onthebottom]

All Union towns....

OTB

 

[papasmerf]

All Union towns....

OTB

this is true

However can you say rust belt?

 

[Tangwhich]

OK to say it, but only if you tell us what colour you are.

Does it matter OJ? Other than people who are directly benefitting from the rule of Mugabe how can anyone argue that the people of that country are better off now? There are people in Iraq who pine for the days of Saddam but even that mess is a hell of a lot better than the hole Zimbabwe is in.

 

[WoodPeckr]

You are at best a stooge

At worst you are Byron Brown

Sounds like you have problems with blacks....