No Fly Zone
- Thread starter Rockslinger
- Start date
Gadaffi is laughing his face off as the earthquake has taken much to the Libyan trobles off the headlines and he can go more nuts with not as much attention. I really fear for the rebels that his will be another Kurd massacre in short order, with the rest of the world saying, nah not yet, ooops too late, ah too bad, that's awful, oh well.
Blackrock is right, regarding the headlines. Media attention is now diverted elsewhere, but the situation in Libya remains the same. And for that matter, same in Egypt....protests got Mubarek out, but only because the military did not intervene on his behalf, and that has more to do with him choosing his son to succeed him than the generals supporting or sympathizing with the protesters. Not much has changed in Egypt, really. But had the army intervened in Egypt to put down the protests, we wouldnt be seeing this in Libya now.
Intervention of any sort on behalf of the Libyan rebels - where could that lead? If Libyans rebels receive aid, would Saudi rebels expect the same? Could that encourage more open resistance in Saudi Arabia - Saudi security forces would more likely react as Libyan forces, rather than as Egyptians did. Is that a route you want to encourage? Probably not.
Does the west have any reason for feel guilty or ashamed for not getting involved - again, probably not. As far as everything indicates thus far, this wasn't spurred by western interests encouraging oppostion groups to overthrow Qaddafi (unlike the Kurds situation following Gulf War1). This started as an internal situation and should remain that way until it plays out, and it will likely play out in Khaddafi's favour (for lots of reasons, most brought up by Landscaper earlier throughout this thread). These situations start up alot faster and easier than they wind down, and any type of non-humanitarian involvement needs some major thought behind it. If its guilt or shame or any emotional response that drives us to think we need to get involved, then we probably shouldnt be getting involved by bringing out the hardware. That calls for very serious and somber decisions, that usually cant be made quickly enough to react to ground truth.
Put it this way - theres plenty of rapid-reaction forces around the world. The US, UK & Canada could make up for easily 60K troops of this nature. But how many were available as of a few weeks ago to put into Libya to physically keep the two sides from killing each other? Not nearly enough, as they've largely been tied up in other places almost continuously for almost 10 years. Do you pull them out of shithole #1 to use them in shithole #2 for awhile, and hope that shithole #1 doesnt revert back to the way it was before, or worse? So, we don't have enough SOF to do the job, can we use regular forces or reservists? You can always get bigger numbers of those guys, but not nearly as quickly. So its a case of either too little or too late.
A bloodbath was inevitable from the day this started, when it looked like Khaddafi was going to be on the receiving end, no-body really cared, since he was a brutal dictator who had it coming, etc etc. The rebels were simply not prepared for what they started, and they'll going to pay heavily for that mistake. Our getting involved now likely wont prevent that and may likely expand the problem. This is a setback for those hoping to overthrow Gaddafi, but through lessons learned, and some expert assistance at the planning stage and not the 11th hour, the next try could very well do the trick.
I will NOT support any action that will endanger the lives of our young men and women nor put them in a position where they might have to harm even a single Muslim. We are "doing something" right now. We are trying to resolve this conflict using non-violent means (e.g. talking). If the Arab League wants a "no fly zone", let them put up a no fly zone.
We do, but then why:
I would argue that we could do much, that we shouldn't, that sounds more like discretion vs impotence.
OTB
Not really our fight and not much we can do short of landing marines, which I think we all think would be a mistake. The Euros have armed him and done business with him, if anyone was going to do anything it should be the European Union.
OTB
We're doing very little and many people are dyeing waaay too easily, before we're finished talking. There has to be a shot across the bow from somebody really soon to get his attention or Gadaffi will get more bold, as will any other half assed dictator from the same school of running a governing.
I'd settle for that, but a lot of them don't have missiles that can be shot from beyond the horizon and take out an air or land target. i truly believe Gadaffi is a class A bully and will back off for however long it takes to change his drawers and down another pill.
Time for Blighty to step up to the plate!
After all Blighty likes that 'sweet' Libyan OIL they swapped that terrorist for.
Our own Laddie (England Rules) could lead the expeditionary force to rescue the OIL and even free some Libyan people in the process from Gadaffy.....
After all Blighty likes that 'sweet' Libyan OIL they swapped that terrorist for.
Our own Laddie (England Rules) could lead the expeditionary force to rescue the OIL and even free some Libyan people in the process from Gadaffy.....
From what I remember not even one single pilot was lost in the
U.S. enforced no-fly zone after Gulf war I over Iraq. It was a cakewalk.
Libya can't be more deadly than Saddam's Iraq to the U.S.
Seems US Defense Sec't Bob Gates is of the same mind:
From a speech given at West Point, Feb 25th 2011
Are you asking for the US to get involved and saying you would support it, no matter the outcome?
Or are you stirring the pot to amuse yourself?
Fareed Zakaria had a panel of analysts from Morocco, Egypt, Jordan and Palestinian Territories, discussing the options and the feeling of the people. Everyone of them said the US should be part of a multinational force, but the US should not put boots on the ground without being prepared for some opposition by a few Arab nations.
Much the same, but the group had no problem with a no fly zone overwatch position for whatever goes forth. The french and British could easily fill in with that responsibility as well. the new type 45 British destroyer or the French/Italian Horizon class frigates would do a fine job from waaaay back there.
I would say that any involvement from the US or Britain will be seen as interference.
I say this should be an Arab run action and logistical support only from what is viewed as the WEST.
Why give the terrorist factions and fodder?
