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Prisoner exchange

fuji

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Jan 31, 2005
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I seem to recall you making this same assertion a few months ago and then linking to a Hamas article supporting a call for a Palestinian Arab Spring.
There were lots of Hamas comments on that page. You ignored their bragging about firing the anti-tank round at the school bus in favour of a different comment on the same page, but it was there. You are just a fool.

Based of what intel?
Per Goldstone. He has concluded that Israel does not have a policy of targeting civilians.
 

groggy

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Mar 21, 2011
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There were lots of Hamas comments on that page. You ignored their bragging about firing the anti-tank round at the school bus in favour of a different comment on the same page, but it was there. You are just a fool.

That is one for the ages, thanks, nearly laughed myself off my chair.

Your basis for arguing that Hamas targets children is comments on a web page?
That really is funny.
Give me a few minutes and I'll grab some comments from Haaretz or the Globe or somewhere else from some asshat and I'm sure I'll be able find something just as offensive. Probably a minute or two on the anti-cycliing forums here would give you a quote calling for violence against cyclists!

That's it?
End of argument.
 

DATYdude

Puttin' in Face Time
Oct 8, 2003
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I don't have time to search the references but here ya go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_school_bus_attack

Can it be any more clear?

grog, i think it's fine for you to be unflinching in your condemnation of Israel but you cross the line when you support Iran or Hamas, that's just stoooopid.
 

groggy

Banned
Mar 21, 2011
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I don't have time to search the references but here ya go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_school_bus_attack

Can it be any more clear?

grog, i think it's fine for you to be unflinching in your condemnation of Israel but you cross the line when you support Iran or Hamas, that's just stoooopid.
I don't support any of this violence, by either side.
But I find offensive Fuji's double standards.

According to Fuji's standards, and the wiki page linked, this would be an acceptable attack based on his rationale of intent.
From the wiki:
Hamas said the bus was travelling a road often used by Israeli military vehicles and it was not known at the time of the attack that it carried schoolchildren
Applying the same standards that Fuji uses to justify killing children in Gaza, Hamas' quote shows they may have thought the bus held soldiers and thus did not intend to kill any children.
Personally, I find killing of any children in this stupid land all unacceptable and make this argument only to show the lack of morals in Fuji's argument. I would back the UN and Amnesty in saying that this was a crime as well as the deaths of children in Gaza.

Now for Fuji: Why is Israel's killing of children ok and Hamas' not?
 

groggy

Banned
Mar 21, 2011
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Specifically comments written by Hamas on Hamas's own website, published by Hamas. Idiot.
Published by Hamas?
Written by Hamas?

That's like saying the gangs of marauding settlers shouting 'death to arabs' and painting hate speech on Mosque's were spouting official policy of the IDF.
 

wigglee

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2010
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Published by Hamas?
Written by Hamas?

That's like saying the gangs of marauding settlers shouting 'death to arabs' and painting hate speech on Mosque's were spouting official policy of the IDF.
Fuji is incapable of being non-partisan.....even though there is violence by both sides in this dispute, he always excuses the Israelis and condemns the Palestinians. He loves to quote Hamas, but never quotes the radical Jewish settlers.
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
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How long until Hamas snatches another Israeli?

OTB
 

fuji

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Hamas' quote shows they may have thought the bus held soldiers and thus did not intend to kill any children.
A few problems:

1. Hamas continued to celebrate the attack and call the criminals who carried it out "heroes" even after they knew they killed a kid

2. Hamas did not apologize for killing the kid

3. It was a big, bright yellow school bus, pretty hard to mistake for a green army vehicle

4. It wouldn't be the first time Hamas has celebrated killing children

Similar to when they were cheering and calling "heroes" the people who killed that pregnant mother.
 

WoodPeckr

Protuberant Member
May 29, 2002
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WTF!!!! This is BIG!!!

...Israel is trading over 1000 Palestinian prisoners who were convicted in proper trials (including over 100 convicted of murdering civilians) for one abducted Israeli who's only crime was to be in uniform on the Israeli side of the green line.
1000 for 1???????

Guess that blows all the hell to long held concept that Jews are shrewd and tough negotiators!

It looks like Palestinians know how to REALLY 'wheel & deal'!!!....:eyebrows:
 

groggy

Banned
Mar 21, 2011
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A few problems:

1. Hamas continued to celebrate the attack and call the criminals who carried it out "heroes" even after they knew they killed a kid

2. Hamas did not apologize for killing the kid

3. It was a big, bright yellow school bus, pretty hard to mistake for a green army vehicle

4. It wouldn't be the first time Hamas has celebrated killing children

Similar to when they were cheering and calling "heroes" the people who killed that pregnant mother.
1. Israel is continuing to kill children who get too near the 'exclusion' barrier
2. Israel did not apologize for killing any kids
3. They were kids in a farm field, hard to mistake kids in a farm field.
4. It wouldn't be the first time Israel has killed children.

The point is, by your own rationale, both crimes are an acceptable cost of 'war' (note that I disagree that the occupation can be called a war, its an occupation - see UN). None of your points call into dispute the lack of proof of intent to kill children.

In other words, your bias has blinded you to any clear moral system.
Killing children is wrong, why do you support Israel's killing of children?
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Fuji is incapable of being non-partisan.....even though there is violence by both sides in this dispute, he always excuses the Israelis and condemns the Palestinians. He loves to quote Hamas, but never quotes the radical Jewish settlers.
Hamas is the effective government of Gaza. Radical Jewish settlers are a fringe group. Of course a government should be held to a higher standard.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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I don't support any of this violence, by either side.
But I find offensive Fuji's double standards.
...
Yet you seem to justify Hamas attacking civilian targets because of a dispute over land ownership.

I think you should never use the word terrorism again, since you have no idea what it means.

Both sides have legitimate arguments that the other sides tactics could be called terrorism.
One side is routinely taking the land of the other, and that is the heart of why there is strife.

...
 

onthebottom

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They were chanting "we need another Shalit" in the streets of Gaza yesterday. Nice that he is going home to his family, but I am not sure it was a smart move.
I agree

OTB
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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...
Applying the same standards that Fuji uses to justify killing children in Gaza, Hamas' quote shows they may have thought the bus held soldiers and thus did not intend to kill any children. ...
So you claim Hamas mistook a clearly marked bright yellow school bus for a military transport? Sad, sad sad.
 

nottyboi

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May 14, 2008
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You're leaving out something rather important. Namely, what they were dropping the bomb on, and why it was in a civilian area.
Why does that matter. Do you feel if a terrorist moved into the house next to you, the US would have the right to attack them and the death of you and your family would then be acceptable?
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
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1000 for 1???????

Guess that blows all the hell to long held concept that Jews are shrewd and tough negotiators!

It looks like Palestinians know how to REALLY 'wheel & deal'!!!....:eyebrows:
Or you could say they marked them to market....

OTB
 
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