Umm, not even close. The four western provinces and the three territories had a 2011 population of 10,393,000, or 31.0% of the Canadian total. Ontario alone had 38.4% of Canada's population with about 12,852,000 people.
F-35 Purchase: Lies, mismanagement, and manipulation
- Thread starter fuji
- Start date
Not sure why I should have to try and come up with something positive about a gang of traitorous con-men but okay I'll take up the challenge:Do you agree that the Harper government has sometimes done well?
After a few years trying to deny the charges, the Harper gov't did well in finally pleading guilty to two cases of violating the Elections Act.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/11/10/pol-conservative-election-in-and-out.html
I was just recalling how the last conservative prime minister was caught accepting envelopes of cash in a scandal about airplanes.
This government has shown its ok with lying, the worst form of porkbarelling gazebo's, electoral fraud and who knows what else.
Why should we trust they've been above the board on this one?
This government has shown its ok with lying, the worst form of porkbarelling gazebo's, electoral fraud and who knows what else.
Why should we trust they've been above the board on this one?
Actually the lastest forum polls has the NDP leading in the Praire's at around 44 percent federal and most polls have us leading in BC. We're even at 30 percent in Alberta, mainly constrated in Edmonton.
Even Western Canada is getting sick of the Tories bullshit. Only in Ontario do they have a solid reliable lead of 39 percent to the NDP's 30.
Even Western Canada is getting sick of the Tories bullshit. Only in Ontario do they have a solid reliable lead of 39 percent to the NDP's 30.
Phantom sounds perfect to me...If I'm paying some tax $$$ on this jets...I want to see them in action...will make me feel better.These jets should have been named 'Mirage' because so far they can be inferred but cannot be seen.
Because the article that you relied upon as a source said they had done well in some things.Not sure why I should have to try and come up with something positive about a gang of traitorous con-men but okay I'll take up the challenge:
After a few years trying to deny the charges, the Harper gov't did well in finally pleading guilty to two cases of violating the Elections Act.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/11/10/pol-conservative-election-in-and-out.html
So I was trying to figure out if you were cherry picking an article to support a fanatical political position, or you were a reasoning open minded person looking at this issue.
You have answered my question.
Now if I were iamme or wigglee or someone of that ilk I would counter with " Yes , if they were incompetent enough to buy 4 leaky subs or overpay by half a billion for windmills (to say nothing of the lying about the spin-off benefits of that) or the billion spent and wasted on gas fired Oakville electrical plant etc etc"Is there any level of incompetence, waste and corruption that would actually wake up the Canadian people enough to turf this gov't?
Truth is that they didn't catch the bureaucrats in DND when they should have and they blindly supported them when they shouldn't have. Be thankful that the oversight procedures worked in this case when they didn't in the sub case.
Kevin Page had come out with a scathing report on the F-35 purchase about a year before, if Harper didn't investigate after that and kept up with the same statments, it should lie fully at his feet.Truth is that they didn't catch the bureaucrats in DND when they should have and they blindly supported them when they shouldn't have. Be thankful that the oversight procedures worked in this case when they didn't in the sub case.
Rae is now calling for Harper to resign over the issue.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/raes-verdict-on-f-35-fiasco-harper-should-resign/article2391856/
Go, Bob, Go!
We all know Harper will not resign over this, nor will any of the Ministers involved. There is very little honour left on either side of the House these days. And I doubt any of the civil servants will be applying for EI anytime soon either. They know too much and if they were fired, the avalanche of brown envelopes around Ottawa would be something to see.Kevin Page had come out with a scathing report on the F-35 purchase about a year before, if Harper didn't investigate after that and kept up with the same statments, it should lie fully at his feet.
Rae is now calling for Harper to resign over the issue.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/raes-verdict-on-f-35-fiasco-harper-should-resign/article2391856/
Go, Bob, Go!
I am not sure you are being sarcastic or not but a point that should be raised is that the F-35 is actually not the type of plane we need.We need those Jets to maintain the integrity of our homeland security
At least that's what the vids say.
One of the main uses of the CF-18 is Arctic air patrols. We need a interceptor that is fast - the f-35 is not - with range - which the f-35 does not have Also the stealth features for the attack role is counter productive to the interceptor role. When the Russians send a bomber close to our airspace we have to show them that we can respond quickly and that we are present.
This is all about kissing up to the US - we could have looked at the Euro fighter but that would have ruffled feathers south of the border.
Truth is that is bullshit ( but nice try throwing the bureaucrats under the bus)...... Harper and MacKay knew what was going on because they orchestrated and controlled the affair, lied to the house and generally treated the Canadian public like mushrooms (kept them in the dark and fed them shit). No one is surprised by this , it is typical C.R.A.P. operating procedure under Herr Harper.Now if I were iamme or wigglee or someone of that ilk I would counter with " Yes , if they were incompetent enough to buy 4 leaky subs or overpay by half a billion for windmills (to say nothing of the lying about the spin-off benefits of that) or the billion spent and wasted on gas fired Oakville electrical plant etc etc"
Truth is that they didn't catch the bureaucrats in DND when they should have and they blindly supported them when they shouldn't have. Be thankful that the oversight procedures worked in this case when they didn't in the sub case.
Yes and no.Wow, people are trying to paint Rae as a victim, not a Great Ruiner of Ontario's economy. Beyond belief. And stupid. His legacy is as advertised - he wrought financial havoc on Ontario. Keep trying though - maybe you will convince some Green Party types to swing their votes to Rae. Wow.
Though I am not a fan of Bob Rae by any means, the recession of 92 / 93 was not his doing. The bank of Canada tried to cool a red hot economy by raising interest rates about 6 percent. It worked all right. Killed the economy in Ontario.
No, Harper has been very bad for Ontario.Do you agree that the Harper government has sometimes done well?
He is only interested in Alberta and Saskatchewan and he has concentrated all his efforts into promoting Canada's resource economy. That's all well and good, however, there is no value added in digging shit out of the ground and loading it in bulk and shipping it overseas. It takes no talent and no imagination to encourage resources. When this China house of cards things finally implodes, Canada is going to be hugely fucked. The resource economey will be shuttered and the manufacturing economy - well, it's been dead for years now.
Ontario has been in the economic doldroms for 4 years now and frankly, it's not getting any better. Harper has done nothing to encourage manufacturing or hitech, or biotech, or anything else in Ontario / Quebec.
He needs to go and the sooner the better.
Harper will never resign, but he might tell McKay to fall on his sword over this one.We all know Harper will not resign over this, nor will any of the Ministers involved. There is very little honour left on either side of the House these days. And I doubt any of the civil servants will be applying for EI anytime soon either. They know too much and if they were fired, the avalanche of brown envelopes around Ottawa would be something to see.
I'm starting to think that we need to revive the Arrow program.I am not sure you are being sarcastic or not but a point that should be raised is that the F-35 is actually not the type of plane we need.
One of the main uses of the CF-18 is Arctic air patrols. We need a interceptor that is fast - the f-35 is not - with range - which the f-35 does not have Also the stealth features for the attack role is counter productive to the interceptor role. When the Russians send a bomber close to our airspace we have to show them that we can respond quickly and that we are present.
This is all about kissing up to the US - we could have looked at the Euro fighter but that would have ruffled feathers south of the border.
Seriously, that would cause the Americans to have a full on coronary arrest.
There have been quite a number of previous fuckups by the Harperites but they never seem to sink much below 30% approval in the polls. If that's any indication, I'd say the CPOC would have to do something really drastic to ever fall below 27 or 28%. Usually their approval dips by something like 5 - 10% and then bounces back after each of their previous offences becomes old news. The problem has been mainly the lack of any alternative. It's hard to stay angry at Harper when the other guys look even worse. And his attack ads have helped make his opponents look pretty awful.Is there any level of incompetence, waste and corruption that would actually wake up the Canadian people enough to turf this gov't?
There may be a small portion of the electorate who've been giving Harpo the benefit of the doubt during his minority years so things could get a bit tougher now that he's in complete control. He may be running out of excuses. Also, this F-35 fuckup is much more of a direct hit on his [hugely undeserved] reputation for financial prudence and managerial acumen so it could be much more damaging than many of his previous missteps. The afghan detainee issue, contempt of parliament, proroguing parliament, election fraud, gazebogate etc may all seem less important to those conservative types who remain fixated on low taxes, less government waste, crime and the military. If Harper can't skate around the mounting evidence of financial mismanagement and incompetence on the F-35 file, he could lose out more than he has in the past.
We could just join in the Eurofighter program as a full participant, rather than trying to go it alone. The Europeans would likely share all the technology with us, unlike the Americans who are trying to force us to buy the F-35 that we don't need while refusing to sell us the F-22 that is better suited to our purposes--and already flying. We should say screw you and join the Eurofighter program instead.I'm starting to think that we need to revive the Arrow program.
The Eurofighter also offers us interoperability.
Alternately, if you REALLY wanted to give the Americans a coronary, we could enter into negotiations with the Chinese to buy hardware from them.
And cheap too.
FAST
And pretty good "hardware", via Israel.Alternately, if you REALLY wanted to give the Americans a coronary, we could enter into negotiations with the Chinese to buy hardware from them.
FAST
The F22 no longer is in production. It's too expensive for even the Americans, plus the Americans refuse to export it, though they might if we asked.We could just join in the Eurofighter program as a full participant, rather than trying to go it alone. The Europeans would likely share all the technology with us, unlike the Americans who are trying to force us to buy the F-35 that we don't need while refusing to sell us the F-22 that is better suited to our purposes--and already flying. We should say screw you and join the Eurofighter program instead.
The Eurofighter also offers us interoperability.
Alternately, if you REALLY wanted to give the Americans a coronary, we could enter into negotiations with the Chinese to buy hardware from them.
Nope, I was thinking for the kind of coin we are talking about for a lousy 65 aircraft, we could reanimate the Arrow program. Hell, James Floyd (you can google him) is still very much alive.
If we are going to waste what will probably amount to 20 billion or so, at least we could spend it in Canada and get half of it back in taxes.
