Teachers Taking "Sick Days" - Anyone want to defend this one?

[dirk076]

Go throw some tea in the lake.

If you don't think that's coming given the continually increasing levels of taxation in this country then you are delusional. I'm too old to start the revolution but I sure as shit will join in.

 

[TeasePlease]

If you don't think that's coming given the continually increasing levels of taxation in this country then you are delusional. I'm too old to start the revolution but I sure as shit will join in.

I truly want to believe that. But, experience has taught me that Canadians are far too docile. Confronted with political/financial/social injustice will simply shrug our shoulders, grab another beer and go back to watching hockey.

 

[Toke]

Generally that's done by one's parents during infancy. By adulthood it's too late for those who picked an occupation they weren't prepared for by gentle coaching. Greed and irresponsibility are highly desirable in stock markets for example, where the actual work done or product produced is immaterial.

Of course if your work with the kids that attracted you to teaching is being defined, supervised, assessed and compensated by people aping the profit-taking sector's greed and business school management style, you'll likely be smart enough to catch on and exploit their system with the same sense of greed and gaining advantage they had in mind when they constructed it.

The teachers didn't invent paid sick days rationed out and counted, nor did they invent banking them so the responsible unselfish teachers wouldn't be penalized compared to the greedy ones who took every day off they could.

If you want a system that produces unselfishness by rewarding it [sic] and assumes and requires responsible behaviour, then you have a whole lot of bad child-rearing across our society to undo. Starting by expecting and assuming the best instead of suspecting and assuming the worst is where the books say parents should start. You know, what they call the 'collegial, collaborative' approach.

Say something good about teachers and their association; show us how it's done.

Talk about 'jumping the shark'. So you're specifically blaming teachers' parents for the problem? Get out the crystal ball and figure out who will be teachers in the future so that we can correct the parenting toward greed or the deficit will never be balanced. SMH.....

 

[TeasePlease]

Talk about 'jumping the shark'. So you're specifically blaming teachers' parents for the problem? Get out the crystal ball and figure out who will be teachers in the future so that we can correct the parenting toward greed or the deficit will never be balanced. SMH.....

If it makes you feel better, it ain't just teachers. It's just amplified in that profession. Maybe it's because the school system itself is warped. No one fails. Every one is a above average. You get "B" just for trying.

 

[Toke]

If it makes you feel better, it ain't just teachers. It's just amplified in that profession. Maybe it's because the school system itself is warped. No one fails. Every one is a above average. You get "B" just for trying.

Of course. That's the point I'm alluding to. It is amplified in this thread because that's the topic at hand.

Yes, the school system is warped. Were supposed to be preparing students for life beyond school, but by not educating/permitting students to fail, the system produces students ill-prepared for the reality of the working-world. See the earlier posts about the teacher with the no-jacket-no-bag policy. Perhaps a stupid rule, but I'm sure everyone here has had a superior with silly rules.

 

[jjbee62]

If you don't think that's coming given the continually increasing levels of taxation in this country then you are delusional. I'm too old to start the revolution but I sure as shit will join in.

Therein lies the problem. No one wants to fix the problems. Everyone is waiting for someone else to fix things. In the meantime, they sit on the sidelines and complain about the problems they refuse to fix.

 

[Ms.FemmeFatale]

Looks like someone does want to fix some of these issues. Clearly we few here on TERB are not the only ones sick and tired of public sector issues.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2013/06/10/pol-clement-public-service-sick-days.html

 

[TeasePlease]

And yet...the Toronto Police Service keeps its bankable sicks days in its last round of negotiations.

 

[probyn]

destillat writes: "get your head out of your ass.."
JohnLarue writes: "Some of the things that are said here are just astounding.
There are a lot of really sharpe people here, however some such as probyn, just do not have a clue"

You two cannot come up with decent arguments, so you have to resort to personal attacks.

 

[JohnLarue]

destillat writes: "get your head out of your ass.."
JohnLarue writes: "Some of the things that are said here are just astounding.
There are a lot of really sharpe people here, however some such as probyn, just do not have a clue"

You two cannot come up with decent arguments, so you have to resort to personal attacks.

I can outwit and out debate you any day of the week
You idea, however was just so ridiculous, it begged for abuse

 

[JohnLarue]

Your source doesn't state that the average salary is 83k...you get an F too. Sorry buddy.

As much as you want to deny it, the onus is as much on you to prove that figure is correct as it is on others to disprove it.

I know it's false just by looking at the numbers posted in your link. Do some math and you won't get to 83. And, I'm done feeding the troll. I hope you find some happiness in your life. I hope you get lots of tax cuts in your future to give you a cheerier disposition. May you move to your NeoCon Garden of Eden, wherever that may be and find peace within yourself. godspeed.

You cannot disprove a fact
I do not need to do any math
This number has been quoted many times in the past
It is a fact

You are a chickenshit loser with a -F grade

 

[JohnLarue]

Will you promise to do the same if I do?

Edit



Forget it. I see someone already did exactly what I was going to do.

http://www.nucleuslearning.com/node/3158

Here's the updated table for the salary scale across Canada:




Province Salary Year Link
British Columbia (Vancouver) $73,972 2011 BC's Local Collective Agreements (2006 - 2011)
Alberta (Calgary) $87,954 2011 Alberta Teachers' Association Collective agreements (2006 - 2012)
Saskatchewan $72,435 2010 Saskatchewan Teachers' Federation Collective Agreement (2007 - 2010)
Teachers in Saskatchewan are currently trying to negotiate another contract.
Manitoba (Winnipeg) $76,547 2010 MTS Collective Agreements
Ontario (Toronto) $83,865 2011 OSSTF Collective Agreement (2008 - 2012)
Quebec (Montreal) $52,435 2011 Montreal Teachers' Association Collective Agreement (2010-2011)
New Brunswick $72,536 2011 New Brunswick Teachers' Federation Agreement (2008-2012)
Nova Scotia $59,644 2010 NSTU Collective Agreement (2008-2010)
P.E.I. $64,608 2011 PEI Teachers' Federation Agreement (2010 - 2013)
Newfoundland $69,994 2011 NLTA Collective Agreement (2008-2012)


Now perhaps you guys will focus on the real issue now that you understand how expensive these vultures are

 

[JohnLarue]

$5 B liability for banked sick day in the Federal govt
They are sick 2 X as much as those in the private sector

Hopefully I do not need to draw anyone a road map
The culture of Public sector employees is one of dishonesty and abusing the taxpayer
I do not think they should be rewarded for such behavior

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/health/story.html?id=8101068

The aim of the “disability management initiative” is to get sick and injured workers back to work faster and to tackle a more than $5-billion liability in banked sick days.

On any given day, 19,000 public servants are booked off on some kind of sick leave. On average, federal employees were absent 12.5 days last year — twice the rate of employees in the private sector. In the core public service, workers are off an average of 18 days, when paid and unpaid sick leave, workers’ compensation and disability are taken into account

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/health...leave+sights/8101068/story.html#ixzz2VrgSTESp

 

[basketcase]

http://www.nucleuslearning.com/node/3158

Here's the updated table for the salary scale across Canada:

...

I'd be interested in his methodology because his number appears nowhere in this one collective agreement (which is just for Toronto BTW).

The numbers listed go from $45,709 to $94,707. There is no information about what the distribution of teachers on the grid is so without that, his numbers for the average are lacking.


Of course your description of 'vultures' is idiotic.

The average salary for Ontario degree holders 2 years after their undergrad is $49,151 which would correspond to a first year teacher. Teacher numbers from the agreement linked are well within norms.
http://cou.on.ca/publications/reports/pdfs/2011-survey-highlights---ontario-graduate-employme


Statscan has the average income for university grads at $60,000 in 2000. With inflation that would be around $80,000 in 2012 dollars. Again, teacher salaries seem relatively in line with Canadians with similar education (and Ontario tends to be several thousand higher than average compared to the rest of Canada)
http://www4.hrsdc.gc.ca/.3ndic.1t.4r@-eng.jsp?iid=54

 

[GameBoy27]

For a while I spent a few hours a week coaching motivated youth in a sport they wanted to play and they were a handful. I couldn't imagine the kind of crap that teachers have to put up with trying to teach today's generation of entitled youth supported by their know-it-all parents.

You can't imagine the kind of crap teachers have to put up with? Let's take another profession like "Nurse" for example. They probably make about the same as teachers, get fewer sick days, don't get the summer off, often have to work weekends and have to switch back and forth from day shift to night shift. And I repeat, no summers off.

Ever been to an emergency department? The stuff they have to deal with ranges from disgusting to life and death situations. Not to mention having to deal with relatives constantly asking "why is this taking so long".

So please, cry me a river when it comes to teachers having to deal with kids, it's their f**king job and they get paid very well to do it, with lots of time off!

Everyone would take the time off if you had sick days that can't be banked. It's just a job to them, after a while they get tired of it just like everyone else.

The only way to fix this situation is to somehow reward teachers that don't take too many sick days off, this would give them an incentive to cone to work. Believe it or not, these are how crappy assembly line run workplaces keep their workers coming back, just simple small rewards.

Really, reward them more? It's not good enough that they get time off for March break, Christmas, statutory holidays, oh yeah and the summer off? And paid very well I might add.

$5 B liability for banked sick day in the Federal govt
They are sick 2 X as much as those in the private sector

Hopefully I do not need to draw anyone a road map
The culture of Public sector employees is one of dishonesty and abusing the taxpayer
I do not think they should be rewarded for such behavior

And oldjones will be the first to say people have to simply pay more taxes if they want roads repaired, infrastructure, transit improvements etc. Nope, no waste in the public sector, none at all.

 

[CTSblues]

And oldjones will be the first to say people have to simply pay more taxes if they want roads repaired, infrastructure, transit improvements etc. Nope, no waste in the public sector, none at all.

You can increase taxes, or you can privatize public spending. I think the way out is to make those who use the services pay for them. I know of no better way to temper taxpayers’ sense of entitlement.

Unfortunately, data from the US is not very encouraging:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/10/america-eu

So, instead of saying no communists and no parasites, perhaps we should say no communists, no parasites, and no hypocrites?

 

[jjbee62]

You can increase taxes, or you can privatize public spending. I think the way out is to make those who use the services pay for them. I know of no better way to temper taxpayers’ sense of entitlement.

Unfortunately, data from the US is not very encouraging:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/10/america-eu

So, instead of saying no communists and no parasites, perhaps we should say no communists, no parasites, and no hypocrites?

Data from the US is rarely encouraging. I cringe every time I look at the local news. I would like to become a political and business consultant. I don't require an enormous amount of money or anything else. My only requirement would be my title. I want to be introduced as the "New Stupidity Limitation Officer", so when someone suggests removing science classes from public schools and replacing them with bible study classes, I can smack them on the forehead and say "that's an incredibly stupid idea".

 

[GPIDEAL]

The fault is with those who allowed such bankable sick days in past negotiated agreements.

Bankable sick days may have been a concession in lieu of higher pay raises, etc., so can you blame the teachers for not taking them?

Not that I'm defending them but you must remember, it was allowed in their contracts, so who's fault is that?

 

[basketcase]

...and they get paid very well to do it, ...

... And paid very well I might add.......

If you bothered reading the stats i posted, you would find that average teacher salaries are completely in line with average salaries for Canadian University grad.



p.s. the average nurse in not working in an ER.

 

[FAST]

Apples and oranges

If you bothered reading the stats i posted, you would find that average teacher salaries are completely in line with average salaries for Canadian University grad.



p.s. the average nurse in not working in an ER.

For 2/3 of the "work" days of the average Canadian University grad !!!

FAST