Royal Spa

Teachers Taking "Sick Days" - Anyone want to defend this one?

jjbee62

New member
May 4, 2013
260
0
0
Indianapolis, IN
The argument is not about legitimate sick time being taken...
Which goes right back to the often repeated point: What is legitimate sick time? How do you qualify that, when it is entirely up to the employee to determine when to use sick days? I have never heard of any organization, that expects employees to not use all of their paid sick days each year, unless they allow them to be carried over from year to year. How oblivious to the world around you and human nature do you have to be, to not realize what would happen in this situation? Is there some universal prescription everyone is on that kept them from seeing this coming? Allow people to save their days from year to year, with (apparently) no limit on how many days they can save, and then tell them, you can't save those days anymore, and if you don't use the ones you have saved, they are going to disappear, and expect them to not take those days? And then everyone wants to blame them for doing what almost everyone would do, in the same situation.

Paid sick time is a benefit. If it is allowed to be banked, then it is a deferred benefit. A simple example, teacher works for 10 years, takes minimal sick days and has 60 days banked, plus the current years allotment. Teacher suffers a serious illness, and has to miss 2 months of school, they're covered, by their benefit. Take away all those banked sick days and what happens in the same situation? Very quickly the teacher uses up their sick days, and is no longer getting paid. Those days have a specific dollar value. Taking those days away is taking away money from the teachers. It really is as simple as that. For some teachers, I imagine the amount could be a significant amount of money. Naturally, they are going to take some of those days before they lose them. The entire issue would have been avoided if everyone hadn't been blind to the obvious outcome. A very simple, cheaper solution that would have avoided the problem would have been to give an option of selling those banked days back, at a discount, maybe pay 6 days for every 10 due. But no one had the foresight to see this coming, so now everyone is complaining about it.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
18,765
4,219
113
I have never heard of any organization, that expects employees to not use all of their paid sick days each year, unless they allow them to be carried over from year to year.
You need to get out more
That is the policy in the majority of private sector organizations
Thank You for illustrating just how out of touch teachers are with the real world
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
18,765
4,219
113
It's amazing how many people don't actually know what teachers do, how much time is involved and how bad the kids and parents are getting. That and this bullshit of the "taxpayer" shouldn't pay for this and that..hate to tell you this, but teachers pay taxes just like everyone else, making them, yes...taxpayers!
They also consume all the other tax funded services
Your revelation does not justify the excessive compensation or outrageous benefits
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
18,765
4,219
113
I found where you're getting that number from. That's a calculation of salary PLUS benefits (not sure what the worth of benefits are or how they're calculated).

Average salary alone in Ontario wouldn't equate to 83k. As I say, go to teachers college. Wait the on average 3 to 4 years to get hired permanently, and you'll possibly be making in salary and benefits 83k by 2024. Highrollin'

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=87a4c1b1-0b71-4271-9392-7eae48f18210
From your article:

Elementary school teachers in Ontario earn an average $80,392 in salary and benefits, according to the ministry of education. Secondary school teachers earn slightly more, an average of $83,543.

With the wage increases on offer, the average elementary school teacher's salary will rise to $90,481 in four years.
Read it carefully.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
18,765
4,219
113
Here's another question for all of you who get pissed off that teachers get "summers" off...(in reality they get from the end of June until mid way through August...assuming they aren't teaching summer school, or tutoring or doing university courses to further their careers) what would you have them do if they didn't take summers off? Work year round? Kids would not be able to handle that.
Since our education system is in need of a significant overhaul, they should go a semester system and utilize the facilities year round
The summer off was started 100 -150 years ago to have the kids available to work the farms, hardly relevant today
Having teachers work 11 months for a years salary, sound appropriate (same salary, teachers would now have to earn it)
Could manage with 15-20% less of this greedy lot

Of coarse it would be better if teachers just recognize that their employer provides them with an exceptional and extremely unique benefit (2 1/2 months vacation) and temper their expectations accordingly
This is what is so brazen about their indignation wrt such an absurd perk as banking of sick days
 

t.o.leafs.fan

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2006
1,362
158
63
I take my source back then. I admit after reading it closely it's obviously inaccurate. The MAX. a teacher makes is 93k something and many maxed out teachers don't have the qualifications to earn that maximum salary. The average wage clearly isn't anywhere near 90 481 considering there are many year 1 and 2 teachers still making in the 40's. Still waiting for your source that you claim is all over the place that 83k is the average salary. I'd love to see it. "It's been quoted all over the place" doesn't cut it.

From your article:



Read it carefully.
 

jjbee62

New member
May 4, 2013
260
0
0
Indianapolis, IN
You need to get out more
That is the policy in the majority of private sector organizations
Thank You for illustrating just how out of touch teachers are with the real world
If your reading comprehension was up to speed you would have understood, in my earlier post, when I said that I'm not a teacher, not married to a teacher, have no vested interest in teaching. What that means, since you apparently need a translation: I'm Not A Teacher.

Majority? Really? You have some data to back that up, I'm assuming. Only the totally clueless would give an employee a benefit and then be surprised when the employee used that benefit.
 

yung_dood

Banned
Jul 2, 2011
1,697
1
0
Everyone would take the time off if you had sick days that can't be banked. It's just a job to them, after a while they get tired of it just like everyone else.

The only way to fix this situation is to somehow reward teachers that don't take too many sick days off, this would give them an incentive to cone to work. Believe it or not, these are how crappy assembly line run workplaces keep their workers coming back, just simple small rewards.
 

TeasePlease

Cockasian Brother
Aug 3, 2010
7,732
5
38
The only way to fix this situation is to somehow reward teachers that don't take too many sick days off, this would give them an incentive to cone to work.

That was the idea behind banking unused sick days for payout. Maybe the a possibility is to convert unused sick days into extra vacation days. E.g., on a 2:1 or 4:1 ratio?
 

blackrock13

Banned
Jun 6, 2009
40,084
1
0
Everyone would take the time off if you had sick days that can't be banked. It's just a job to them, after a while they get tired of it just like everyone else.

The only way to fix this situation is to somehow reward teachers that don't take too many sick days off, this would give them an incentive to cone to work. Believe it or not, these are how crappy assembly line run workplaces keep their workers coming back, just simple small rewards.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but not everybody takes all their sick day, reward or not. It certainly says a lot about you that you think so. Some actually like the work they do and feel a sense of commitment and responsibility, even dragging the ass in even if they feel a bit off or injure themselves, providing they can do their work.
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
Jan 10, 2002
40,714
98
48
Hooterville
www.scubadiving.com
Sorry to burst your bubble, but not everybody takes all their sick day, reward or not. It certainly says a lot about you that you think so. Some actually like the work they do and feel a sense of commitment and responsibility, even dragging the ass in even if they feel a bit off or injure themselves, providing they can do their work.
This shows an incredible entitlement mentality - especially in a workforce that works very few hours a year.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
18,765
4,219
113
I take my source back then. I admit after reading it closely it's obviously inaccurate. The MAX. a teacher makes is 93k something and many maxed out teachers don't have the qualifications to earn that maximum salary. The average wage clearly isn't anywhere near 90 481 considering there are many year 1 and 2 teachers still making in the 40's. Still waiting for your source that you claim is all over the place that 83k is the average salary. I'd love to see it. "It's been quoted all over the place" doesn't cut it.
Give your head a rub
You provide a source that verifies the salary
I provide a source that verifies the salary

Yet you say they are inaccurate???????
Go do your own homework

I would say the onus is on you to provide irrefutable proof that the average teachers salary is not $83K
Sorry "Teach" you get a "F-" on this assignment

Lets hope you apply a little more effort and careful comprehension when marking student work
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
18,765
4,219
113
If your reading comprehension was up to speed you would have understood, in my earlier post, when I said that I'm not a teacher, not married to a teacher, have no vested interest in teaching. What that means, since you apparently need a translation: I'm Not A Teacher.

Majority? Really? You have some data to back that up, I'm assuming. Only the totally clueless would give an employee a benefit and then be surprised when the employee used that benefit.
OK so you are married to a teacher
No vested interest there?????

I have never worked for any organization that banks sick days
I have never heard of any acquaintances that banked sick days
I believe this is primarily a public sector phenomenon.

In the real world , if you are sick, you are encouraged not to come to work, least you spread the bug
There are a set number of sick days (5 to 10) and if you need to exceed those , you use vacation days or short term disability
If there are unique circumstances you can always try and work out an issue with your boss
I ave heard of more cases where the company goes the extra mile to accommodate the employee, than stories where someone gets screwed over.

However, lets not lose sight of what this really is in the case of the teachers
It is nothing more than a cash grab at retirement
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
18,765
4,219
113
That was the idea behind banking unused sick days for payout. Maybe the a possibility is to convert unused sick days into extra vacation days. E.g., on a 2:1 or 4:1 ratio?
Are you out of your mind ?
Teachers get more than enough vacation

Better teachers just realize they have an exceptionally rich compensation package and be grateful the govt is willing to run deficits in order to provide that comp
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
18,765
4,219
113
Everyone would take the time off if you had sick days that can't be banked. It's just a job to them, after a while they get tired of it just like everyone else.

The only way to fix this situation is to somehow reward teachers that don't take too many sick days off, this would give them an incentive to cone to work. Believe it or not, these are how crappy assembly line run workplaces keep their workers coming back, just simple small rewards.
$ 83K a year 2 and 1/2 months vacation and an exceptionally rich retirement package and they need incentive?

How is this for incentive?
They get back to work or look for alternative employment that pays $83K a year & the summer off
 

CTSblues

New member
Jan 21, 2005
126
0
0
Obviously the education system failed you.
Now I finally understand why he refuses to read and analyze the empirical evidence I gave him…he probably doesn’t even understand what “empirical” means.
This reminds me of a piece written by Charles Murray for the WSJ, talking about a person with an IQ that is a bit below 100, at the 49th percentile:

We can hope to raise his grade. But teaching him more vocabulary words or drilling him on the parts of speech will not open up new vistas for him. It is not within his power to learn to follow an exposition written beyond a limited level of complexity, any more than it is within my power to follow a proof in the American Journal of Mathematics. In both cases, the problem is not that we have not been taught enough, but that we are not smart enough.

http://www.aei.org/article/society-and-culture/intelligence-in-the-classroom/


Murray is correct; we do not live at Lake Woebegone.
 

CTSblues

New member
Jan 21, 2005
126
0
0
Could be why he has such animosity towards teachers.
I think the Dunning-Kruger effect is in full operation in this thread.


On a different note, I am beginning to wonder if Canada is not simply an expensive place to “do business”. Not only are our teachers well paid, our doctors and police officers are too:

http://news.ontario.ca/mohltc/en/2012/05/a-real-wage-freeze-for-doctors-the-facts.html

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/comm...ong-the-best-paid-in-the-world/article535381/
 
Toronto Escorts