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Putin slams "American Exceptionalism" in NYT Op-Ed

wigglee

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Putin may indeed be a gangster and a dictator himself with ulterior motives at play here, , but I agree 100% with what he said. If Lester Pearson was around , he might make the same speech.
 

fuji

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Putin may indeed be a gangster and a dictator himself with ulterior motives at play here, , but I agree 100% with what he said. If Lester Pearson was around , he might make the same speech.
Yup. And Lester wouldn't have said it with a wink and crossed fingers.
 

Aardvark154

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Putin may indeed be a gangster and a dictator himself with ulterior motives at play here, , but I agree 100% with what he said. If Lester Pearson was around , he might make the same speech.
He almost certainly wouldn't have included the final paragraph and likely not the ninth paragraph. Further if he was writing today rather than when he was alive he might well have talked about how the third paragraph hadn't quite turned out as most of those responsible for the U.N. had thought.
 

afterhours

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There are many historical and military, not to mention military-historical journals. Perhaps you would like to submit a peer reviewed article for publication?
I am going by what I read in General Groves's book. No original material.

They had 2 bombs ready and they dropped 2 bombs, with a few days difference. Don't you think that maybe 1 bomb would have been enough if anybody gave a shit about civilian lives wasted?

let's be real, it was an à la guerre comme à la guerre cituation. Civilians were expended as pawns in a big game should be expended.
 

Aardvark154

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They had 2 bombs ready and they dropped 2 bombs, with a few days difference. Don't you think that maybe 1 bomb would have been enough if anybody gave a shit about civilian lives wasted?
Obviously everyone must have missed where Japan surrendered between August 6 and August 9.
 

afterhours

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Obviously everyone must have missed where Japan surrendered between August 6 and August 9.
But no one missed that USSR declared war on August 8.
 

fuji

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But no one missed that USSR declared war on August 8.
Bingo.

The US had known for months that this was the date on which the Soviets would declare war and attack. The US was likely racing to get those bombs dropped ahead of that, since they knew the USSR entry would result in a surrender.
 

afterhours

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Bingo.

The US had known for months that this was the date on which the Soviets would declare war and attack. The US was likely racing to get those bombs dropped ahead of that, since they knew the USSR entry would result in a surrender.
the US must have thought that Japanese civilians would rather be nuked than go under Soviet occupation.
 

fuji

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the US must have thought that Japanese civilians would rather be nuked than go under Soviet occupation.
The Japanese were trying to negotiate a surrender that would have included some of their captured territory on the mainland as part of Japan.

The Soviets weren't going to invade the Japanese homeland, but they were going to steamroll all the territory Japan held on the mainland in short order.

So that took holding onto that land off the table. The Americans were willing to accept all the other conditions the Japanese had, such as preservation of the Emperor.
 

afterhours

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The Japanese were trying to negotiate a surrender that would have included some of their captured territory on the mainland as part of Japan.

The Soviets weren't going to invade the Japanese homeland, but they were going to steamroll all the territory Japan held on the mainland in short order.

So that took holding onto that land off the table. The Americans were willing to accept all the other conditions the Japanese had, such as preservation of the Emperor.
eventually Russians took a few of their islands just in case
 

Aardvark154

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See the many previous posts on this subject, which needless to say has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic of the thread.
 

fuji

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See the many previous posts on this subject, which needless to say has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic of the thread.
You never had any answer to this:

Why not wait a few more weeks to see if the Russian entry persuaded Japan to surrender, as it so obviously did?

It is not like the Americans didn't know when it was going to happen.
 

Rockslinger

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the US must have thought that Japanese civilians would rather be nuked than go under Soviet occupation.
Actually, if you studied the Battle of Saipan ("Suicide Cliff") and the WW II Japanese mentality (both military and civilian) you would know that the Japanese preferred death to surrender. In Malaysia (and probably elsewhere as well), units of the Japanese Imperial Army were still fighting to the death into late September 1945.

 
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