Jethro's economic plan

[JohnLarue]

4 year BA and 2 years professional training now required try to keep up. You really have no clue about education do you?

Investigate properly and you will find, as I stated, the average credentials of the current set of teachers in Ont is a 3 year BA & a year at clown college
That is what we are currently paying $83K+ for

They tightened up the qualifications when the application list grew astronomically. Apparently the word is out, that teaching in Ont is one cushy and overcompensated position

I knew you would respond with this , before I posted it
You are the clueless one

Canada a world leader in education. Only nation on the planet with over 50% post secondary education.

Really,?
Then why is the Canadian average salary $48K if half have post secondary education?
Surely the average of the Canadian population should be compensated at a rate a lot closer to the $83K we pay teachers who have a post secondary education (if you consider a 3 year BA as post secondary)
Then there are those 1% -5% making megabucks which should drive up the average
This does not add up

Try ho advocate removing even one week of holidays. John Snobelen tried. Parents and recreation industry landed on him like a ton of bricks. The public wants the school holidays exactly as they are.

Well they might view that differently if presented as an alternative to tax increases
A third alternative is to cut teachers compensation by 20%. That appears to be the lessor of three evils

 

[JohnLarue]

You are confusing that with a BMA.
Remember that only one of of those degrees gives you useful skills and knowledge.

There are two confused people here and I am not one of them

 

[Lovehobby]

There are two confused people here and I am not one of them

You are both of them.

nobody without a 4 year degree has a chance to be hired and professional training is now a 2 year stint, same as a lawyer.

 

[basketcase]

1. Oh do we need to spell this out for you again?
If not public school system , then private schools, however no union, therefore no $83K +

Yet all those private school teachers in Ontario are already making that more.

2. Not that many corps have a corporate trainer, let a lone a staff of them
Like I said 500 -1000 maybe
Where you get 200,000 making $83K + a year (for 9 months work) ????

If there were 2 million people needing frequent training like there are 2 million Ontario students getting frequent instruction, there would likely be 200,000 trainers.

If you don't like the comparison find a better private sector parallel to what teachers do.
come on, time to apply a little common sense here

2. If corporate trainer work less than 9 months , they sure as hell get their pay pro-rated

In my personal experience, I know two (not a large sample size admittedly) and neither was training people for the equivalent of 9 months. Both would regularly take days off, had more way more extended vacations than I do and both were north of 6 figures pay.

No the only thing separating teachers from a fair and equitable (lower) compensation is an aggressive union and two premiers who did not have the balls to do the right thing
This will blow up in a few years time ( higher interest rates) & there will be carnage for both the taxpayer & the teachers

Your normal senseless predictions based solely on your opinion, not fact.

 

[ogibowt]

Please point specifically any inaccurate facts
1. Does the average grade two teacher get 83K_ ? Yes or No - Yes
2. Can teachers command $83K + in private sector ? Yes or No- No
3. Does a teacher work 9 1/2 months out of 12 ? Yes o No ? Yes
4. Is Ontario broke ? Yes or No - Well on its way
5. Are teachers underpaid ? Yes or No - Many have defended their excessive comp, LoveHobby is first to say they are underpaid

Tripe ? No
Facts - Yes

you are a clueless lug head....any one with a brain would fail you on Logic 101.. 1, 2, 3 does not lead to 4..man you are stupid...
one in a thousand teaches could command 83 grand in the private sector is an opinion , not a fact......your irrational hatred of teachers must have been developed as a child, yes or no?

your love affair with austerity is misguided..yes or no
you need to be stroked by a 20 something in a rub and tug..yes or no?

 

[Lovehobby]

It has little to do with Ontario. Alberta teachers make more money and they have had Tory governments and right wing governments since forever. Almost all teachers in Canada and the northern US make very similar wages with slight COL differences. Basically JL your arguments are full of crap.

 

[JohnLarue]

It has little to do with Ontario. Alberta teachers make more money and they have had Tory governments and right wing governments since forever. Almost all teachers in Canada and the northern US make very similar wages with slight COL differences. Basically JL your arguments are full of crap.

I present facts
You present (biased) opinions
The rubber will hit the road inside of the next 5 years when the Ontario coffers run dry

 

[Lovehobby]

I present facts
You present (biased) opinions
The rubber will hit the road inside of the next 5 years when the Ontario coffers run dry

You think the above are not facts? You are way out of date on your facts.

 

[JohnLarue]

you are a clueless lug head....any one with a brain would fail you on Logic 101.. 1, 2, 3 does not lead to 4..man you are stupid...
one in a thousand teaches could command 83 grand in the private sector is an opinion , not a fact......your irrational hatred of teachers must have been developed as a child, yes or no?

You appear tohave a comprehension problem
Did I say 1,2,3 lead to 4 - No I did not, I leave that up the informed to decide if they are linked. I think they are
#4 is defiantly true- read a little about Ontario's finances, investigate, what you will find out will prove disturbing

your love affair with austerity is misguided..yes or no

No

you need to be stroked by a 20 something in a rub and tug..yes or no?

Sounds like fun, as long as it is not a union shop

 

[JohnLarue]

You think the above are not facts? You are way out of date on your facts.

What Alberta pays their teachers is their business
Alberta does not have the debt & spending problems Ontario has

Your opinion that Alberta policies justify Ontario's waste is not a fact it is an opinion

I could point out that one of east coast provinces or a state like Mississippi pays substantially less , however that is irrelevant
I do not pay taxes in Alberta or Mississippi

You need to learn who to articulate a point and logically connect the dots
Other wise you will continue to alienate those you attempt to convince

 

[Lovehobby]

LOL Ontario teachers make roughly the market rate for teachers in Canada and the northern USA. It has dick to do with the present provincial government or the union relationship. The great leap forward for teachers was 1975 to 1985 most of it under a PC government.

 

[JohnLarue]

Yet all those private school teachers in Ontario are already making that more.

Well, I tend to believe the devil is in the details on that statement
A proper comparison of vacation, pension, hours worked PE days, prep time etc for private school vs. public school may prove quite different from what you say

As I pointed out if 200,000 public school teachers hit the market without collective bargaining, Private schools would move those salaries downward

If there were 2 million people needing frequent training like there are 2 million Ontario students getting frequent instruction, there would likely be 200,000 trainers.

If you don't like the comparison find a better private sector parallel to what teachers do.
come on, time to apply a little common sense here

Yes some common sense please
corporate Canada is not going to spend $83K + on each of 200,000 trainers
(The actual cost / per is probably closer to $100 to $105k after all perks are added in)
That is $20 Billion
What was that you were saying about common sense?
Please advise us when you obtain some

In my personal experience, I know two (not a large sample size admittedly) and neither was training people for the equivalent of 9 months. Both would regularly take days off, had more way more extended vacations than I do and both were north of 6 figures pay.

Well I also know several teachers who privately admitted they are on a gravy train that they could not match in the private sector, "not even close" were the exact words from one. (not a large sample size admittedly).
Sadly I have met a larger number who arrogantly state "they deserve it" and remain oblivious to the burden on the taxpayers ,

Your normal senseless predictions based solely on your opinion, not fact.

Well numbers tend to be factual and they are going to get very ugly for Ontario when interest rates start to rise & health care demand sky rockets
The facts are these two events are fast approaching

It is my opinion that at that point many will look back and wonder why we allowed the unions to put us in such a bad position

 

[Lovehobby]

The most conservative governments in Canada are in Alberta. they pay more than Ontario. Many American cities pay more.

Avg pay Canadian HS teacher $50 000 CND

http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=High_School_Teacher/Salary

Avg Pay for New Jersey HS teacher $63 000 USD

http://teaching.monster.com/careers/articles/9484-5-highest-paying-states-for-teachers

Ontario teachers seriously underpaid.

That enough numbers for you?

 

[dirk076]

But if he campaigned on 'Tim Hudak will lower your wages to create more poorly paying jobs', which is true, he won't get elected.
So he'll lie like Rob Ford instead.
Typical of the right wing.

Yeah, cause McGuinty and Wynne have never lied. LMFAO. The left in power in Ontario for the last 10 years are the biggest liars in the history of the Province.

 

[dirk076]

You are both of them.

nobody without a 4 year degree has a chance to be hired and professional training is now a 2 year stint, same as a lawyer.

A lawyer must have a 4 year undergrad, pass the LSAT with high marks for admission to a law school, then 3 years post grad at law school, then a year of articling in slave like conditions at a law firm, 3 more months of BAR admission courses, then eight 6 hour exams to be licenced. Teachers are not even close.

 

[Lovehobby]

Lawyrrs do not need a 4 year undergrad.

 

[Lovehobby]

Yeah, cause McGuinty and Wynne have never lied. LMFAO. The left in power in Ontario for the last 10 years are the biggest liars in the history of the Province.

The Ontario Liberal Party is a right of centre party. The Ontario PCs are far right. The ONDP is left of centre.

 

[dirk076]

Lawyrrs do not need a 4 year undergrad.

Yes they do. It is extremely rare that a person is admitted to law school without one.

 

[basketcase]

Yes they do. It is extremely rare that a person is admitted to law school without one....

If it is rare, it is not required.

 

[dirk076]

If it is rare, it is not required.

It is a requirement for admission to a law school. Very, very few are admitted to any law school in the country without one. A law degree is a professional degree. One of only 3 granted by Universities, the others being a doctor and engineer. To compare the requirements for a grant of a law degree to that of a teacher is utterly ridiculous.