Religious Idiots Against The New Sex Ed. Curriculum

[explorerzip]

It bothers me when people say that this curriculum is being "forced" on their kids. We're not strapping kids down on a chair with their eye lids held open doping them with narcotics! The reality is that kids will encounter this stuff regardless of what the parents have to say about it. If nothing else, I hope the controversy with this curriculum is making parents have a serious talk with their kids.

 

[cityguy57]

Reality is a lot of guys believe it's ok to cheat on their SO. We should probably teach our kids that's normal too. lol.

 

[Calgacus]

Either way (even assuming you believe AT, she was seriously damaged goods long before her suicide) if it makes you feel better:
No normal person would be doing something like that at that age
Maybe your wack job kids need help at home not the school level

http://fox40.com/2015/02/23/staggering-number-of-teens-involved-in-sexting-what-parents-can-do/

 

[castaniabrucciatta]

They're teaching about sexting (or the act of sending visually explicit images by cell phone) in grade 7.. Despite what you've been tricked into believing.. This isn't an instructional "how to" class. It's a class that will discuss the dangers associated with such behaviour.

Most 12 year olds will already be well aware of the practice of sending lewd images by cell phone.. Teaching them about how it's a bad idea is not the same as teaching them HOW TO DO IT. There's no portion of the curriculum which teaches children "how to sext safely".

Some teacher that doesn't know how to program their VCR (yes, i said VCR....) is going to teach the tech savy kids the dangers of 'sexting'???

They KNOW the dangers of sexting and yet many still do it.

In theory some of the more radical ideas the new curriculum is proposing make sense.

In practical terms, I think this will be a disaster and will cost Wynne her job in the next election.

I know this may be stretch but remember when Tory ran for Premier and got on that 'faith based schools' issue? Cost him big time.

Our society just isn't ready to accept such change in a widespread manner. People are more tolerant now than ever. I may be wrong but weren't we the second (or technically FIRST) country to allow same sex marriage?

We're more accepting than most but we don't like being told what to do or having things were not ready for forced on us.

Just my 0.02

CB

 

[castaniabrucciatta]

Ahhhh.. So you're a homophobe who would rather his children pretend that healthy homosexual relationships don't exist.. Or is it that you want your children to be kept in the dark about how their own bodies are changing (or will be shortly)??

I've talked to a few parents about this.

It's not the subject matter but rather the age appropriateness of some of the subject matter covered. They feel that some of their 12 yr olds may not be ready for certain things while some of their 11 yr olds might be. They want to make that determination not the government.

I don't think its a evangelical, homophobic oppostion but more of a libertarian, stay out of my business one.

CB

 

[castaniabrucciatta]

... What's wrong with an 8 year old understanding that it's normal that his friend might have two Dads?? What's wrong with a 9 year old understanding that the little hairs he's growing (or will be growing within the next year or so) are perfectly normal?

Most schools have same sex parents. Ours has 3 couples and its not a secret or a big deal. My kids have had play dates with the kids from one such family and vice versa. They know that so and so has 'two dads'. Great guys. No big deal.

But it was me and my wife that had that discussion with them in what I felt was the right way and at the right time - they asked 'where's so and so's' mom? That was the right time for us.

CB

 

[glamphotographer]

The biggest problem is that Parents feel that they can talk to their own children about sex. Yet, the children don't want to talk about sex with their parents, just "AWKWARD!!!!" as kids say these days.

 

[GameBoy27]

I've talked to a few parents about this.

It's not the subject matter but rather the age appropriateness of some of the subject matter covered. They feel that some of their 12 yr olds may not be ready for certain things while some of their 11 yr olds might be. They want to make that determination not the government.

Really, 11-12 is too young to learn about sex? I had anal sex with the girl next door when we were 12. The only reason it was anal was because I had no idea what a vagina was or that she even had one. I had next to no sex education from my parents or teachers. Looking back I would've welcomed some sort of awareness of things as I was growing up, but I had no one to talk to.

I would've loved to have known spontaneous erections in gym class was a normal part of reaching puberty. What the hell was that? Who can I talk to about this? My parents, no... teacher, no... brother, no... sister, no... classmates, no...

It sounds like people against the new curriculum are uneasy about their kids growing up and becoming sexual beings. At some point your little snowflakes are going to be having crazy monkey sex and there's nothing you can do about it. All you can hope is that they learn some of the basics on the way.

 

[AK-47]

I don't think telling 8-9 years old kids about same sex relationships is such a bad thing. They're certainly old enough to be aware of kids with two moms or two dads. It's about discussion and answering any questions they may have.

I know I started masturbating at that age or earlier

But thats you. Not every kid matures sexually at that age, everyone is different.
Its not like there's a magic switch that turns on at age 8 or 9, some kids dont discover sexuality till much later.

Thats why it should be left up to each individual parent when they think their child is ready

Actually parents can pull kids out of any class at any time

Not according to that National Post article I posted earlier in this thread

Kids are taught about different religions and different cultures at public schools

Thats odd, religion was avoided like the plague at my high school classes.

Not that I really care though, because I despise religion in all its forms

It's not the subject matter but rather the age appropriateness of some of the subject matter covered. They feel that some of their 12 yr olds may not be ready for certain things while some of their 11 yr olds might be. They want to make that determination not the government.

I don't think its a evangelical, homophobic oppostion but more of a libertarian, stay out of my business one.

CB

Yup. Well said

 

[GameBoy27]

But thats you. Not every kid matures sexually at that age, everyone is different.
Its not like there's a magic switch that turns on at age 8 or 9, some kids dont discover sexuality till much later.

Thats why it should be left up to each individual parent when they think their child is ready

The problem with leaving it up to parents is that they rarely even cover the basics. And how do you know when a kid is ready? It's not like they'll come to you and say "dad, I'm ready for you to tell me why I like to rub my penis or vagina".

Ask anyone how much sex education they got from their parents. Most found out from their peers (and a lot of it misinformation along with it) because parent aren't comfortable speaking to their kids about sex and no kid wants to hear their parents talk about their penis, vagina, masturbation etc.

The other issue is many kids only have one parent or are being raised by relatives, not to mention I have little faith in their knowledge on the subject to begin with.

This covers some of the misconceptions and misinformation about this curriculum...

5 Myths and Facts About Ontario's Updated Sex Education Curriculum

Yesterday I spent the day going over the newly released 2015 Ontario Health and Physical Education Curriculum (Elementary) with a fine-toothed comb to generate a comprehensive précis made up of every single quote that had anything to do with the "sex ed" parts.

Unfortunately, misconceptions and misinformation about this curriculum are continuing to make their way around the Internet, mostly because people seem bound and determined to willfully ignore the actual facts before forming an opinion.

So today I'm going to address the most common myths about the new curriculum.

Myth #1

Explicit sexual content, including oral and anal sex, consent, and rape will be taught to children as young as six.

Key words/phrases:
"graphic content," "young ages," "desensitizing," "innocent minds," "putting thoughts into young minds," "too young to learn about sex," "age-inappropriate content," "explicit content," "children will be taught to consent to sex," "protect our children's innocence."

Truth:

In grade one, children will be taught to identify body parts, including genitalia, using their correct terms (penis, testicles, vagina, vulva) and to recognize exploitative behaviours such as inappropriate touching. In grade two, the concept of "consent" will be introduced very broadly as the right to say "no" in threatening situations. This has been misrepresented by many critics as "teaching children the concept of consent," which is then in turn further misrepresented as "teaching children to consent to sex."

The concept of human and animal reproduction -- presented broadly as the union of the egg and sperm -- has actually been pushed back a grade, moving from grade three to grade four, and the first discussion of sexual intercourse occurs in grade five, the same as in the previous curriculum.

Masturbation is defined in grade six and characterized as normal and not harmful, but students are not "taught masturbation." A 1950s-era sex-ed video that I found in my research describes masturbation more graphically than the 2015 curriculum. Oral-genital contact and anal intercourse are discussed in grade seven. They are listed as potential sexual activities that one should consider abstaining from or delaying -- not described graphically, "taught" or offered up as alternatives to delaying vaginal intercourse. They are described as part of a comprehensive sex education curriculum, which is the only type of sex education curriculum that is proven to reduce teen pregnancy and STI infection rates and raise the age of onset of first sexual activity.

Myth #2

Children will be taught graphic information about homosexuality and gender fluidity and forced to view them as normal, accepted practice.

Key words/phrases:
"gay premier of Ontario," "homosexuality," "homosexual activities," "sick," "homosexual agenda," "Kathleen Wynne, a practicing lesbian," "family values," "personal beliefs," "neo-liberal beliefs," "lifestyle choices," "impressionable children," "gay sex acts," "gender fluidity," "gender expression," "gender is determined by your sex organs," "gender identity," "choose to change gender."

Truth:

In the 2015 curriculum, children will be taught to respect people's differences. Starting in grade three, they will be introduced to the concepts of gender identity and sexual orientation as invisible characteristics; other examples include learning abilities, allergies, and cultural values. The teacher prompt for this topic includes "Give me some examples or things that make each person unique," to which an example student response is "We all come from different families. Some students live with two parents. Some live with one parent. Some have two mothers or two fathers. Some live with grandparents or with caregivers. We may come from different cultures. We also have different talents and abilities and different things that we find difficult to do."

Yes, the fact that we must treat everyone with respect regardless of their personal characteristics is emphasized throughout the curriculum. Yes, the concept of same-sex relationships and gender identity are introduced in grade three and treated as normal. That's because, under the laws of this country in which we live, we must treat everyone with respect regardless of their personal characteristics, and same-sex relationships are normal and gender expression is protected by law (here and here). It really doesn't get any more cut and dry than that.

Entrenching the pretense that LGBTQ people simply don't exist in our public school system is discriminatory. Saying that it's not the statistical norm to be in a same-sex relationship and therefore we don't have to talk about it a curriculum that covers human relationships would be akin to saying, "Well, 80 per cent of our school's population identifies as Canadian, so what's the point in learning world geography? Consider the risk that students will be influenced by it and want to become Japanese."

If your personal values do not line up with the laws of Canada, it is your right to impart those beliefs to your children at home, but your children will be required to be versed in and abide by those laws while in the public school system.

Myth #3

This curriculum was designed by a pedophile.

Key words/phrases:
"Ben Levin," "Benjamin Levin," "child pornographer," "should want to distance themselves," "alleged child molester."

Truth:

It is very unfortunate that a man charged with multiple counts relating to child pornography had a hand in developing the failed 2010 curriculum. This does not change the fact that the current curriculum is outdated by almost two decades and in dire need of updating. It probably would have been the easier choice for the government to leave the curriculum issue alone for a few more years to let people forget about Ben Levin before quietly reintroducing it (or not bothering at all), but they chose to persevere with the new curriculum.

Many other people, including education, child development, and policy experts, as well as 4,000 heads of school parent councils across Ontario, were involved in developing the 2015 curriculum, Levin NOT included. The proposed changes are research-supported and intended to make children less vulnerable to exploitation, including over the Internet.

Pedophiles, child pornographers, and child molesters, in fact, are the ones who would benefit MOST from the older curriculum remaining in place.

Myth #4

Parents are being forced to accept a curriculum they had no say in.

Key words/phrases:
"force-fed," "police state," "not comfortable," "opt out," "not in agreement," "forced upon us," "right to our beliefs," "freedom of speech," "should have a democratic poll," "majority disagree," "catering to the minority."

Truth:

Parents can choose to remove their children from all or part of the Physical and Health Education curriculum. Children whose parents make this choice are usually kept home or supervised in the library or another part of the school while the class takes place. In fact, the public education system is not mandatory. While the United Nation Convention on the Rights of a Child recognizes a child's right to an education, the Ontario Education Act states that a child is excused from attendance at school if they are receiving satisfactory instruction at home or elsewhere. This means that you are free to withdraw your child from the public school system provided you are committed to educating them at home or within the private school system.

As to the second point, having no say, a) this curriculum is being implemented by the Ontario Ministry of Education, a Ministry of the democratically elected Government of Ontario; and b) the process of creating this curriculum included consultation with 4,000 chairs of parent councils (i.e. parents who were democratically elected to chair parent councils in each of 4,000 schools across Ontario).

Myth #5

It's up to parents to teach their children these concepts, not the schools.

Key words/phrases:
"why aren't they teaching math," "what happened to the 3 Rs," "when did this become the school's responsibility," "underfunded and understaffed school," "these kids can't read or write but they know about sex," "this is the parent's job," "my child should learn about this from me."

Truth:

Sexual education has been taught in schools FOREVER. Seriously -- here's a direct quote from this 1950s sex-ed film: "You can cause an ejaculation by yourself too, by masturbating -- rubbing the penis. Sometimes you hear that masturbation affects your mind or your manhood. It isn't true. For kids your age, it's just something normal." We're talking Wally and the Beave here. This is nothing new. Depending on how old you are, it might have been putting condoms on bananas, or a filmstrip in a dark classroom. Maybe the boys and girls were split up, maybe they stayed together? But you learned it.

Very little has actually changed from the previous curriculum in terms of what is actually being taught. There have been major, necessary updates in keeping with law and technology -- changes to marriage equality, social media and digital safety. The main difference between this and the 1998 curriculum is that the 2015 curriculum includes much more detail. Where the 1998 curriculum provided broad topics and left it to the discretion of the individual teacher to interpret them, the 2015 curriculum actually makes it EASIER for parents to see and understand exactly what their children will be learning in school. By providing the detailed concepts and teaching prompts, the curriculum makes it clear what information teachers are expected to provide and makes the curriculum less susceptible to the teacher's intentional or unintentional biases.

The curriculum (both 2015 and 1998) also indicates that students should seek guidance from trusted adults in their lives, such as parents, doctors, elders, or religious leaders, when considering sexual choices, supporting the rights of parents to influence their children's values and beliefs when it comes to making decisions. Just as ever before, the 2015 curriculum provides the basic facts, at developmentally appropriate ages, leaving moral judgments at home.

I don't really know how many more ways I can say it. Educate yourself. Get the facts. Don't be influenced by hyperbole.

And then support the 2015 Ontario Health and Physical Education Curriculum.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/karyn-pickles/ontario-sex-education-curriculum-update_b_6746012.html

 

[AK-47]

The problem with leaving it up to parents is that they rarely even cover the basics. And how do you know when a kid is ready? It's not like they'll come to you and say "dad, I'm ready for you to tell me why I like to rub my penis or vagina".

Ask anyone how much sex education they got from their parents. Most found out from their peers (and a lot of it misinformation along with it) because parent aren't comfortable speaking to their kids about sex and no kid wants to hear their parents talk about their penis, vagina, masturbation etc

Whats there to talk about, Gameboy?? You pull your weiner, and you blow your wad.
Not much more to it than that. I learned it pretty quickly and very easily.

Are you suggesting we should start coaching kids on how to masturbate properly??

I find it very strange you have this fascination with sex and kids. Makes me wonder

 

[GameBoy27]

Whats there to talk about, Gameboy?? You pull your weiner, and you blow your wad.
Not much more to it than that. I learned it pretty quickly and very easily.

Are you suggesting we should start coaching kids on how to masturbate properly??

Clearly you didn't you didn't read the myths and facts above. If you had some insight into the actual curriculum you would make such uninformed comments. Here's the piece you missed relating to masturbation which has absolutely nothing to do with teaching kids how to masturbate.

Masturbation is defined in grade six and characterized as normal and not harmful, but students are not "taught masturbation." A 1950s-era sex-ed video that I found in my research describes masturbation more graphically than the 2015 curriculum. Oral-genital contact and anal intercourse are discussed in grade seven. They are listed as potential sexual activities that one should consider abstaining from or delaying -- not described graphically, "taught" or offered up as alternatives to delaying vaginal intercourse. They are described as part of a comprehensive sex education curriculum, which is the only type of sex education curriculum that is proven to reduce teen pregnancy and STI infection rates and raise the age of onset of first sexual activity.

I find it very strange you have this fascination with sex and kids. Makes me wonder

I'm simply discussing aspects of the new curriculum. If you think that's a fascination with sex and kids, you're the one who needs help.

I find it strange you're against keeping up with the times when it comes to educating kids about a very important aspect of their development. I also find it strange you want to let kids "figure things out for themselves". The new curriculum isn't just about masturbation and homosexuals, as you make it out to be.

 

[AK-47]

Masturbation is defined in grade six and characterized as normal and not harmful, but students are not "taught masturbation."

They might have taught that in 1960's, that masturbation is harmful and makes you go blind, but that doesnt apply to the year 2015 anymore. I've never heard of a parent who teaches masturbation is harmful

I find it strange you're against keeping up with the times when it comes to educating kids about a very important aspect of their development. I also find it strange you want to let kids "figure things out for themselves"

I was taught very little sex-ed, and I turned out OK.
I'll bet if you do a survey you'll find most people turned out fine without sex-ed classes.

Teaching STD's is okay, but not until kids are at least 16. You're insane if you think sex-ed should be taught to 8-year olds

 

[GameBoy27]

They might have taught that in 1960's, that masturbation is harmful and makes you go blind, but that doesnt apply to the year 2015 anymore.

Right, which is why they're updating the curriculum.

I've never heard of a parent who teaches masturbation is harmful

Most parent's don't tell them it's natural either, which is why it's part of the curriculum.

I was taught very little sex-ed, and I turned out OK.
I'll bet if you do a survey you'll find most people turned out fine without sex-ed classes.

You were taught very little sex-ed therefore scrap the program and let kids figure it out for themselves. You're a genius! And don't say it's up to parents because very few discuss all the issues with their kids.

Teaching STD's is okay, but not until kids are at least 16.

Right, because kids don't have sex until that age. What planet are you from?

You're insane if you think sex-ed should be taught to 8-year olds

OMG, the horror of teaching 8-year-olds kids the proper name for body parts and to recognize exploitative behaviours such as inappropriate touching. You're right, let them figure that out for themselves.

 

[whitewaterguy]

Most parent's don't tell them it's natural either, which is why it's part



OMG, the horror of teaching 8-year-olds kids the proper name for body parts and to recognize exploitative behaviours such as inappropriate touching. You're right, let them figure that out for themselves.

In my neighbourhood, kids growing up were sucking each other's dicks and playing with kitties at age 5 and 6, out behind the garage or wherever. It would have been nice if parents had coached us in advance as to what was acceptable vs. harmful. It's not uncommon. For 3 and 4 year olds to engage in rather sophisticated sexual exploration including self stim and mutual stim stuff. I worked with a mom who nearly committed suicide after discovering her 8 year old son was sexually exploiting his younger 3 and 5 year old sisters, including letting his friends play with his sisters. None of the kids involved spoke to their parents about it for over a year that it had been happening, until the one little girl mentioned it to a teacher...so thankfully the kid trusted someone sufficiently to speak out. Don't talk to you kids about it....they won't talk to you about it either...great set up

Theres no room for antiquated prehistoric dinosaur views on this shit...those days are over..parents who protest much needed change should retreat to their caves and let the state raise their kids if they have trouble dealing with today's realities..which often times aren't pretty, readily spiralling out of control due to electronics,and destroying families if kids are not equipped to cope with life today, in this rapidly, increasingly fucked up world

 

[AK-47]

Most parent's don't tell them it's natural either, which is why it's part of the curriculum

Why not just leave it blank. You think kids cant figure it out for themselves??
You think they're stupid??

Maybe you had trouble with pulling your weiner properly, but not everyone is like you

 

[explorerzip]

They might have taught that in 1960's, that masturbation is harmful and makes you go blind, but that doesnt apply to the year 2015 anymore. I've never heard of a parent who teaches masturbation is harmful


I was taught very little sex-ed, and I turned out OK.
I'll bet if you do a survey you'll find most people turned out fine without sex-ed classes.

Teaching STD's is okay, but not until kids are at least 16. You're insane if you think sex-ed should be taught to 8-year olds

Even if you've never heard of a parent who teaches that masturbation is harmful it does not mean that it applies to all parents. There is no way to tell what parents are telling their kids about sex. And just because you turned out "OK" with little sex-ed does not mean that it applies to everyone. There are plenty of paedophiles out there also did not take sex-ed classes.

You have to remember that we are living in a different age where anyone including kids can access information and mis-information about sex and all sorts of porn. When we were teenagers you had to make an effort to go the video or book store to buy skin mags or porn tapes. We also did not have the capability of making porn images and videos of ourselves and sharing instantly with anyone and everyone.

 

[Calgacus]

 

[Calgacus]

 

[GPIDEAL]

I've talked to a few parents about this.

It's not the subject matter but rather the age appropriateness of some of the subject matter covered. They feel that some of their 12 yr olds may not be ready for certain things while some of their 11 yr olds might be. They want to make that determination not the government.

I don't think its a evangelical, homophobic oppostion but more of a libertarian, stay out of my business one.

CB

Yes I agree, however, was it a protester or an MPP that said he doesn't believe in evolution (I think that's worse to promote Creationism, than teaching sex ed).