Religious Idiots Against The New Sex Ed. Curriculum

[AK-47]

Quite right..

You're so right.. Your (or somebody else's in this case) personal religious beliefs should totally trump my right to have my child taught that it's okay that the gay family next door exists.. Why should schools be teaching tolerance and acceptance anyway?? Who the fuck do they think they are??

Ironically you seem to feel that it's wrong for a democratically elected government to push their "beliefs" on the people because it infringes on the rights on individual citizens to push their "beliefs" on people

You miss the point. You said they were stupid for protesting, I'm saying they're allowed to have their beliefs and protest if they want (even if you dont agree with them).

If they dont want the gay lifestyle pushed on their 8-year old kid they have every right to protest

Actually, you were:

"Yes, I'm sure you're a model parent yourself."

I called him a model parent. Are you saying I was being sarcastic?? :biggrin1:

 

[GameBoy27]

If they were protesting the fact that there kids had to sit through sex-ed classes and they didnt know they could pull their kids out, then they were at very least ill-informed on their rights as parents, and protesting was a bit stupid and futile

However, if you read that National Post link, it says kids cannot be pulled out of some classes. I suspect its the gay rights classes which they cant be pulled from. If thats the case they have every right to protest based on their religious grounds

Even more reason to educate all kids about same sex relationships instead of teaching them it's morally wrong based on your beliefs. That's brainwashing!

 

[AK-47]

Even more reason to educate all kids about same sex relationships instead of teaching them it's morally wrong based on your beliefs. That's brainwashing!

No, because your morals =/= other peoples morals.
Also, some would people would argue you are trying to brainwash kids with your Liberal views.

Why not let kids make up their own minds as they grow older instead of forcing gay lifestyle on them, or making them feel guilty if they somehow dont approve of it. Why force any kind of belief on them?

 

[destillat]

Why not let kids make up their own minds as they grow older instead of forcing gay lifestyle on them, or making them feel guilty if they somehow dont approve of it. Why force any kind of belief on them?

So parents have no role in raising their children sexually, then?

 

[AdamH]

If they dont want the gay lifestyle pushed on their 8-year old kid they have every right to protest

*head hits desk

They're not pushing a gay lifestyle on anybody.. They're teaching children to acknowledge and accept that there are different kinds of families out there.. And that those different kinds of families are okay..

Refusing to teach my child that those "alternative" families exist (and that it's fine that they do) is pushing your personal beliefs on my family..

It's also balls to the wall bat shit crazy.. What the fuck is a teacher supposed to do if asked by little Jack "How come Billy has two dads?"? Shrug and say "I can't tell you because it might upset Sally's Dad"... LOL

We live in a country where gay people can legally marry, and gay people can legally adopt children.. You want teachers to be teaching children that people who abide by our countries laws are still bad (because your personal belief system tells you so)?

 

[AK-47]

They're teaching children to acknowledge and accept that there are different kinds of families out there.. And that those different kinds of families are okay

They're not pushing a gay lifestyle on anybody

You sure?? LOL.

But what if some parents dont find it okay?? Do they not have the right to object based on their religious beliefs??

Personally, I think kids should be taught to respect all people, and not have a special section for gay people. FWIW the vast majority of kids who got teased and bullied in my school werent gays, they were the nerds and "losers". I dont hear Liberals standing up for their rights

It's also balls to the wall bat shit crazy.. What the fuck is a teacher supposed to do if asked by little Jack "How come Billy has two dads?"? Shrug and say "I can't tell you because it might upset Sally's Dad"... LOL

Just tell the kid he or she will eventually figure it out for themselves.
Kids aren't dumb you know

 

[AK-47]

So parents have no role in raising their children sexually, then?

It should be up to individual parents whether they choose to sex-ed their kids, and it definitely should be up to them when to start this sex-ed should they choose to have it.

Starting at 8 years old is fucking nuts IMO.

It makes me wonder why some of you find sex and young kids so important

 

[GameBoy27]

No, because your morals =/= other peoples morals.
Also, some would people would argue you are trying to brainwash kids with your Liberal views.

Why not let kids make up their own minds as they grow older instead of forcing gay lifestyle on them, or making them feel guilty if they somehow dont approve of it. Why force any kind of belief on them?

I'll leave the personal attacks to you and focus on the topic.

Teaching kids that there's male and female gay couples (who can legally marry in this country) has nothing to do with forcing a gay lifestyle on children. What is it that upsets you about gay people or gay couples? Is it you fear that your child being taught about different sexual orientations will make them become gay themselves?

Please tell us what it is you fear!

 

[AdamH]

But what if some parents dont find it okay?? Do they not have the right to object based on their religious beliefs??

They can "object" all they want.. People are allowed to do all kinds of useless crazy shit..

However, they don't have the right to force our children to be taught that people who are abiding by our country's laws should be frowned upon.. They cannot force their personal opinions on my children..

The law says that gay people are okay (it's not illegal to be gay in Canada). The law says it's okay for them to be married. The law says it's okay that they have children.. The fact that YOU (or somebody else) don't think so doesn't change that..

Refusing to allow my children to be taught these facts is pushing your personal beliefs on my children.. Alternatively, actively teaching YOUR children these FACTS is NOT pushing my personal beliefs on your children..

 

[AK-47]

I'll leave the personal attacks to you and focus on the topic

Dont claim the moral high ground, please. You started it by insulting my parental skills when you said you felt sorry for how my kids were raised

Teaching kids that there's male and female gay couples (who can legally marry in this country) has nothing to do with forcing a gay lifestyle on children

Oh yes it does

What is it that upsets you about gay people or gay couples?

It bothers me that a certain Liberal ideology is being pushed on my kids.
Would you be OK if I forced your kids to sit though religious classes where they teach your child all about Jesus and how earth is only 6,000 years old??

Is it you fear that your child being taught about different sexual orientations will make them become gay themselves?

Please tell us what it is you fear!

No, I dont fear that. Nobody chooses to be gay, they are born that way just as I'm born heterosexual. I had no choice in that

 

[AK-47]

They can "object" all they want.. People are allowed to do all kinds of useless crazy shit..

However, they don't have the right to force our children to be taught that people who are abiding by our country's laws should be frowned upon

Except I'm not teaching my kids that.

I'll let them make up their own minds if they wanna accept the gay lifestyle.
If they do thats great, if they dont then thats their choice as well

 

[Bud Plug]

I'll leave the personal attacks to you and focus on the topic.

Teaching kids that there's male and female gay couples (who can legally marry in this country) has nothing to do with forcing a gay lifestyle on children. What is it that upsets you about gay people or gay couples? Is it you fear that your child being taught about different sexual orientations will make them become gay themselves?

Please tell us what it is you fear!

The debate on this issue is never joined, because people will not acknowledge what the real issue is.

I don't think parents object to their children learning that there are same sex relationships that exist. They might wonder why they need a school to tell that to their children. What they may object to is the school telling those children that such relationships are "normal" or "right", because some parents don't believe such relationships are "normal" or "right" (according to their own definitions) and want the right to explain their own position to their children before anyone else tries to persuade them otherwise.

It's as simple as that. These parents do no not deny that same sex couples exist, or that they have all the legal rights you refer to. However, in the minds of many people, not everything that is "legal" is "right". In fact, it was that very outlook that led gay activists to have a number of laws changed.

It is not hard to understand the arguments of those whose opinion is that same sex relationships are normal and right. It is hard to understand the arguments of those who deny that others could hold a different opinion.

Usually, the best solution, in the school context, to deal with strongly held but opposite opinions is remove the issue from discussion in the classroom. That's why there's no Lord's Prayer any more, and no more Christmas concerts, etc. etc.

Why isn't that the best solution this time?

 

[AK-47]

Let me put in terms so even Liberals can understand my point.

Us over here at Terb are involved in the sex industry, am I right?? Prostitution is pretty much frowned upon by society, just like gays were (or still are). This frowning by society is also how Bill C-36 came into existence.

While I totally disagree with Bill C-36 because it infringes upon sex between consenting adults, I would NOT want it taught in schools to 8-year old kids that men sleeping with prostitutes while being married is somehow OK. Leave it up to the child to make that determination as they get older. I don't want those beliefs forced on my children whatsoever.

Ditto for the gay lifestyle

 

[GameBoy27]

It should be up to individual parents whether they choose to sex-ed their kids, and it definitely should be up to them when to start this sex-ed should they choose to have it.

Starting at 8 years old is fucking nuts IMO.

It makes me wonder why some of you find sex and young kids so important

Just curious, do you have any gay friends? Because if you've ever had conversations with any of them you would know that they were probably attracted to the same sex from a very young age. Teaching kids that there's both straight and gay people in this world and to respect the rights of everyone regardless of their sexual preference is a good thing.

I know several of my parents friends and friend's parents who grew up knowing they were gay, married the opposite sex and had children because they were ashamed of admitting they were gay. When I talk to them I realize how awful it must have been leading this double life. This is why it's important to make kids aware and yes, at a young age so which ever way they turn out it's no big deal. Of course, if you believe being gay is a choice then I can see why this issue bothers you so much.

For your kids sake, I truly hope they aren't gay. You don't seem like someone who is very accepting.

It bothers me that a certain Liberal ideology is being pushed on my kids.
Would you be OK if I forced your kids to sit though religious classes where they teach your child all about Jesus and how earth is only 6,000 years old??

Homosexuality is not a Liberal ideology, it's a fact of life!

You're comparing teaching creationism (which is not part of the curriculum) to the fact there's a percentage of the population who are homosexual?

 

[AdamH]

Let me put in terms so even Liberals can understand my point.

Us over here at Terb are involved in the sex industry, am I right?? Prostitution is pretty much frowned upon by society, just like gays were (or still are). This frowning by society is also how Bill C-36 came into existence.

While I totally disagree with Bill C-36 because it infringes upon sex between consenting adults, I would NOT want it taught in schools to 8-year old kids that men sleeping with prostitutes while being married is somehow OK. Leave it up to the child to make that determination as they get older. I don't want those beliefs forced on my children whatsoever.

Ditto for the gay lifestyle

You would be wrong to disagree. It's not up to you to decide that something legal is wrong and that it should be taught as wrong to children. Now, how much adult visits to prostitutes are going to effect children is most certainly up for debate (as well as why it was being taught to children). Otherwise it would simply be (again) you pushing your personal beliefs onto the rest of us.

I'm going to give you another alternative scenario.. Mixed race marriages.. There are SOME people that could argue (some even for religious reasons) that mixed race couples "offend" them and are "wrong". Are you really going to argue that children shouldn't be taught that families, which consist of mixed race couples, are normal?? Do you think that an entire province should have to abide by an individual's (or group of individuals) demand that a photograph of (and ensuing discussion about) a family which contains a mixed race couple be taken down because THEIR belief system tells THEM that that a mixed race marriage is wrong?

 

[AdamH]

Additionally, would you ever DARE to insinuate that any discussion about that mixed race couple would be tantamount pushing the "mixed race lifestyle" onto the children that were participating in the discussion???

 

[AK-47]

You would be wrong to disagree. It's not up to you to decide that something legal is wrong and that it should be taught as wrong to children. Now, how much adult visits to prostitutes are going to effect children is most certainly up for debate (as well as why it was being taught to children). Otherwise it would simply be (again) you pushing your personal beliefs onto the rest of us

*facepalm*

Where did I say that kids should be taught prostitution is wrong or immoral?? My point was it shouldnt even enter the classroom, it should be up to kids to decide as they get older

I'm going to give you another alternative scenario.. Mixed race marriages.. There are SOME people that could argue (some even for religious reasons) that mixed race couples "offend" them. Are you really going to argue that children shouldn't be taught that families, which consist of mixed race couples, are normal?? Do you think that an entire province should have to abide by an individual's (or group of individuals) demand that a photograph of (and ensuing discussion about) a family which contains a mixed race couple be taken down because THEIR belief system tells THEM that that a mixed race marriage is wrong?

Again, I dont think it has any place in the classroom. Schools should be about teaching sciences, math, history....etc.

Schools are not social engineering experiments.

And before you draw any more false inferences, I have no problem with mixed marriages myself just as I have no problem with gays getting married

 

[AK-47]

Additionally, would you ever DARE to insinuate that any discussion about that mixed race couple would be tantamount pushing the "mixed race lifestyle" onto the children that were participating in the discussion???

Hey Adam, would you be okay if I wanted schools to start teaching religion to kids?? Because Christians around the world are being persecuted as well, just as gays are in some countries

 

[AdamH]

*facepalm*
Again, I dont think it has any place in the classroom. Schools should be about teaching sciences, math, history....etc.

Sounds like you need to pull your kids outta public school because our public school system has absolutely been tasked with teaching kids about families.. That's not new.. I haven't been in school for decades and we absolutely learned about families (and family dynamics) when I was enrolled.

Hey Adam, would you be okay if I wanted schools to start teaching religion to kids?? Because Christians around the world are being persecuted as well, just as gays are in some countries

This literally makes no sense whatsoever.. Why does it even matter if a group is persecuted or not?? The point is to acknowledge that they exist and that they're a normal part of our society.

You don't think these same classes are teaching kids that Christian families exist (and that they're normal)???

It also sounds like you're (again) confusing the act of teaching kids that homosexuality exists (and that it's normal and acceptable for some people to be homosexual) with the act of teaching children that they should participate in it..

 

[AK-47]

This literally makes no sense whatsoever.. Why does it even matter if a group is persecuted or not?? The point is to acknowledge that they exist and that they're a normal part of our society.

You don't think these same classes are teaching kids that Christian families exist (and that they're normal)???

Okay, but you didnt answer my question. Would you be okay with religion taught in schools to 8-year olds?? A simple yes/no answer please.

And if you say 'no' then please state why not