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Bitcoin bull cycle done or $ 100,000 to come in Q4 of 2021, or Q1 or 2022 ?

fall

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2010
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True. But considering say Apple Stock dividend and its worth does anyone own it for that? Or for its speculative value and store of wealth potential?
The speculative value comes from future dividends. So, yes, everybody who own Apple stock own it for the dividends, it is just these dividends will be paid well in the future and current owners of the stock will benefit from them through the stock price increase. This is basic definition of the fundamental stock value and, in the long run, the stock price do converge to its fundamental value. The fundamental value of Bitcoin (again, the coin, not the technology) is zero, thus, in the long-run its price will be close to zero. The only question is: when it will happen and, most importantly, when most of the people will realise that it will eventually happen (as this realisation will make the crash mush sooner)
 

sprite09

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Aug 10, 2020
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Jesus , you guys are still going back and forth? believe you guys had this discussion in another thread

save you guys some time ...Butler, fall won't buy/believe in crypto no matter what you say...fall, Butler won't sell his crypto or change his view on crypto no matter what you say , lol

will BTC crash ? ya, it has multiple times and then reaches new all time highs ...will this continue? you'd think probably not, but who knows; as another poster mentioned, experts and academics have been saying no, but it continues to defy them.

in the end, if Butler goes broke, fall can say, "I told you so." if Butler becomes filthy rich because crypto/BTC ends up hanging around and goes up in value, he can tell fall, "I told you so."
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
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Bitcoin is Blockchain.
Explain what you mean by the above.

1) Blockchain is a transaction process platform that may, may, may add actual financial/economic value.

2) How does Bitcoin 'fit' into 1) above? ie > is the 'production' or 'mining' of Bitcoin a direct value added result of 1) above

3) The trade exchange market for and the trade exchange market price of Bitcoin and/or other crypto-currencies are utterly divorced from the underlying value of blockchain technology.

4) So please, for heaven's sake .... stop equating the two.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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Explain what you mean by the above.

1) Blockchain is a transaction process platform that may, may, may add actual financial/economic value.

2) How does Bitcoin 'fit' into 1) above? ie > is the 'production' or 'mining' of Bitcoin a direct value added result of 1) above

3) The trade exchange market for and the trade exchange market price of Bitcoin and/or other crypto-currencies are utterly divorced from the underlying value of blockchain technology.

4) So please, for heaven's sake .... stop equating the two.
It is blockchain. It's value exists because people say so. Just like diamonds, art, other things.

It is finite, can't be conterfeited, is easily storable and transferable. And tracable, as well as divisible.

Thats what makes it a store of wealth. But it is blockchain. Explain why a diamond is so valuable except a marketing campaign. Why one artist is worth millions and another worthless.

Its because people say so. Thats it.
 

fall

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2010
2,735
679
113
Jesus , you guys are still going back and forth? believe you guys had this discussion in another thread

save you guys some time ...Butler, fall won't buy/believe in crypto no matter what you say...fall, Butler won't sell his crypto or change his view on crypto no matter what you say , lol

will BTC crash ? ya, it has multiple times and then reaches new all time highs ...will this continue? you'd think probably not, but who knows; as another poster mentioned, experts and academics have been saying no, but it continues to defy them.

in the end, if Butler goes broke, fall can say, "I told you so." if Butler becomes filthy rich because crypto/BTC ends up hanging around and goes up in value, he can tell fall, "I told you so."
Nope, he cannot tell me "I told you so" since the bubble can outlive all of us (not very likely, but it can) :)
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
11,266
3,933
113
It is blockchain. It's value exists because people say so. Just like diamonds, art, other things.

It is finite, can't be conterfeited, is easily storable and transferable. And tracable, as well as divisible.

Thats what makes it a store of wealth. But it is blockchain. Explain why a diamond is so valuable except a marketing campaign. Why one artist is worth millions and another worthless.

Its because people say so. Thats it.
I know you try but you are unable to actually distinguish between Bitcoin which is a cryto-currency and blockchain which is a transaction process platform.

Blockchain platforms are tethered to value added financial/economic transaction processes minus their enormous processing costs whereas Bitcoin and other crypto-currencies are solely tied and tethered to the thin air vagaries and manipulations of market trading.

Vechain price today is $0.089283 USD

Bitcoin price is $54,000+ USD.

Are you unable to appreciate that something is quite amiss here?
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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I know you try but you are unable to actually distinguish between Bitcoin which is a cryto-currency and blockchain which is a transaction process platform.

Blockchain platforms are tethered to value added financial/economic transaction processes minus their enormous processing costs whereas Bitcoin and other crypto-currencies are solely tied and tethered to the thin air vagaries and manipulations of market trading.

Vechain price today is $0.089283 USD

Bitcoin price is $54,000+ USD.

Are you unable to appreciate that something is quite amiss here?
Now do the same thing with art. And what you won't accept is value is relative to what a human thinks is valuable.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
32,003
5,797
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Jesus , you guys are still going back and forth? believe you guys had this discussion in another thread

save you guys some time ...Butler, fall won't buy/believe in crypto no matter what you say...fall, Butler won't sell his crypto or change his view on crypto no matter what you say , lol

will BTC crash ? ya, it has multiple times and then reaches new all time highs ...will this continue? you'd think probably not, but who knows; as another poster mentioned, experts and academics have been saying no, but it continues to defy them.

in the end, if Butler goes broke, fall can say, "I told you so." if Butler becomes filthy rich because crypto/BTC ends up hanging around and goes up in value, he can tell fall, "I told you so."
I don't have enough in for filthy rich status. More like extra income for early retirement. And yes I would sell it once it hits a certain level if I felt that a better opportunity existed. Right now its about a five year hold with more dollar cost averaging buy ins. And honestly my BTC holdings are minimal(maybe 10%)

But im enjoying the back and forth. Its not that his points are without merit. But I think he is wedded to a more traditional outlook when I think this will, in the long run become the new stock market model with 24/7 trading across international lines. As well as creating a new banking system model. Thete will be push back and there's no way to predict its final forms. But its coming.
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
11,266
3,933
113
I know you try but you are unable to actually distinguish between Bitcoin which is a cryto-currency and blockchain which is a transaction process platform.

Blockchain platforms are tethered to value added financial/economic transaction processes minus their enormous processing costs whereas Bitcoin and other crypto-currencies are solely tied and tethered to the thin air vagaries and manipulations of market trading.

Vechain price today is $0.089283 USD

Bitcoin price is $54,000+ USD.

Are you unable to appreciate that something is quite amiss here?
Now do the same thing with art. And what you won't accept is value is relative to what a human thinks is valuable.
I knew it.

Standard boilerplate text response ala your politics posts and responses.
 
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Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
32,003
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I knew it.

Standard boilerplate text response ala your politics posts and responses.
When you described "enormous processing costs" it means you don't understand proof of work vs proof of stake. You also don't understand the difference between 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation Crypto.

And finally you know even less about human beings. What motivates them. And how much faith plays into their reasoning.
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
11,266
3,933
113
When you described "enormous processing costs" it means you don't understand proof of work vs proof of stake. You also don't understand the difference between 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation Crypto.

And finally you know even less about human beings. What motivates them. And how much faith plays into their reasoning.
Greed and fear motivates and moves markets. Volatility invokes both greed and fear. The Fed has constructed a floor on financial markets NOT crypto-currency markets.

What we got here is greed, wait for the fear, it will arrive.
 
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sprite09

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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Nope, he cannot tell me "I told you so" since the bubble can outlive all of us (not very likely, but it can) :)

or it just lasted until it got disrupted by diff technology

but either way he thinks they'llll be around long enough during his lifetime to increase his wealth

anyway, why not come along with the ride, fall? I'm sure you got, say , $1k to play with; if not, just sacrifice some whoring and rippers, lol
 

sprite09

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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633
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Greed and fear motivates and moves markets.

What we got here is greed, wait for the fear, it will arrive.
"it" has arrived multiple times


but,.come on, seriously, you know terb isn't exactly the ideal place to ask about the merits of blockchain technology

in the end, as another poster mentioned , nobody's beliefs will change ...just leave it
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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Greed and fear motivates and moves markets. Volatility invokes both greed and fear. The Fed has constructed a floor on financial markets NOT crypto-currency markets.

What we got here is greed, wait for the fear, it will arrive.
I believe its destined to become more than a market. I believe it will become a new set of rules for financial transactions on a globaal scale. In every type of space. From micro 3rd world to macro multinational.

Market greed comes from a small set of speculators. The volume of transactions that are about to open up will dwarf them.
 

fall

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2010
2,735
679
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or it just lasted until it got disrupted by diff technology

but either way he thinks they'llll be around long enough during his lifetime to increase his wealth

anyway, why not come along with the ride, fall? I'm sure you got, say , $1k to play with; if not, just sacrifice some whoring and rippers, lol
Surely I have $1K to play with, but I prefer to play at the poker table :).
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
11,266
3,933
113
Market greed comes from a small set of speculators.
You really don't understand even the most basic fundamental psychological/emotional response mechanisms of greed and fear in markets, especially volatile markets.

Think herd mentality and lemmings a'plungin off cliffs.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
32,003
5,797
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You really don't understand even the most basic fundamental psychological/emotional response mechanisms of greed and fear in markets, especially volatile markets.

Think herd mentality and lemmings a'plungin off cliffs.
Funny enough I do. Yet "Hodling" is a big term in crypto. Especially with the big ones. Sure I watch a huge swing in my portfolio. And bought more. Its why despite the recent drop im still up about 35%. And planning some more dollar cost average buys over the next several months with spare cash.

The other emotional response in play are the true believers in it long term.
 
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