Hamas Willing To Disarm...new position

[Frankfooter]

I think divestment is much more complicated in the modern financial system than most people think.

As for Columbia itself, it is well known that if you constantly reject offers, it doesn't always mean you get better offers.

True, but making BDS the moral choice publicly is a long term project.

Which is why you are supporting the proposed 40-day ceasefire?
After all, "You can't even start to deal with the other two until the shooting and bombing stops."

What 40 day ceasefire?
There is none agreed yet and its looking less likely.
Hamas wants a ceasefire with no return to genocide, Israel wants a 40 truce with the return of hostages followed by more genocide.

When you said Hamas shouldn't accept the 40-day stop in the bombing.

When did I 'just' say that?

 

[Valcazar]

True, but making BDS the moral choice publicly is a long term project.

Absolutely.
But you haven't acted like it is one.
You've acted like these protests are going to settle it.

What 40 day ceasefire?
There is none agreed yet and its looking less likely.
Hamas wants a ceasefire with no return to genocide, Israel wants a 40 truce with the return of hostages followed by more genocide.

And you have said that Hamas shouldn't accept the 40 day truce.

When did I 'just' say that?

Are you saying you were in favor of the 40-day ceasefire now?

 

[Frankfooter]

Absolutely.
But you haven't acted like it is one.
You've acted like these protests are going to settle it.

How specifically have I acted that way?

And you have said that Hamas shouldn't accept the 40 day truce.
Are you saying you were in favor of the 40-day ceasefire now?

Your argument that you think Israel can continue the genocide for months is starting to convince me that negotiating for a 40 day pause is less useful.
Why give up the hostages when that is providing mass protest against Netanyahu for a ceasefire?

The situation is fluid, on this issue I'm not certain which choice is now better.

Do you think Hamas should agree to that 40 day ceasefire and why?

 

[Valcazar]

How specifically have I acted that way?



Your argument that you think Israel can continue the genocide for months is starting to convince me that negotiating for a 40 day pause is less useful.
Why give up the hostages when that is providing mass protest against Netanyahu for a ceasefire?

The situation is fluid, on this issue I'm not certain which choice is now better.

Do you think Hamas should agree to that 40 day ceasefire and why?

I have no idea if they should.
My instinct is yes, because I generally think less killing is better than more and usually ceasefires - even temporary - are where negotiations can move towards extending them.

That said, ceasefires are tactical things.
If a ceasefire is found to not be helping, people shouldn't agree to it.

I don't know nearly enough to make that call for either side.

What I do know is that people who loudly insisted that a ceasefire must happen NOW were mostly lying because the moment one was offered they said it wasn't good enough.
I do know that people who said "Hamas can end the war instantly by returning the hostages" were lying because the Israeli government made it very clear that they weren't going to stop just because hostages were returned.

 

[Frankfooter]

I have no idea if they should.
My instinct is yes, because I generally think less killing is better than more and usually ceasefires - even temporary - are where negotiations can move towards extending them.

That said, ceasefires are tactical things.
If a ceasefire is found to not be helping, people shouldn't agree to it.

I don't know nearly enough to make that call for either side.

Agreed.

What I do know is that people who loudly insisted that a ceasefire must happen NOW were mostly lying because the moment one was offered they said it wasn't good enough.

Did you not just argue that maybe this one isn't good enough?

I do know that people who said "Hamas can end the war instantly by returning the hostages" were lying because the Israeli government made it very clear that they weren't going to stop just because hostages were returned.

Agreed.

 

[shack]

I do know that people who said "Hamas can end the war instantly by returning the hostages" were lying because the Israeli government made it very clear that they weren't going to stop just because hostages were returned.

The stated goals of Israel were the return of the hostages AND the elimination of Hamas.

IMO, if Hamas returned all of the hostages and fully surrendered, then yes Israel would cease their current aggression.

If only 1 of those 2 goals is achieved, it is not enough. I'm pretty sure that Israel/Net has been clear and consistent on that since Day1, Oct.7.

 

[Frankfooter]

The stated goals of Israel were the return of the hostages AND the elimination of Hamas.

IMO, if Hamas returned all of the hostages and fully surrendered, then yes Israel would cease their current aggression.

If only 1 of those 2 goals is achieved, it is not enough. I'm pretty sure that Israel/Net has been clear and consistent on that since Day1, Oct.7.

By killing all of Hamas, how far does that go?
Just the leaders?
The militants?
The police?
The hospitals you say are Hamas?
The families?
The kids?

Or is it just Netanyahu's Srebrenica plan, let all the women out of Rafah and kill all males of fighting age?

 

[basketcase]

No, that's not their position.
...

Another case where you think Arabs can't speak for themselves so instead you tell them what they say isn't what they want.

 

[basketcase]

Truth and Reconciliation.
...

While Canada is still actively stealing Indigenous land, refusing to provide basic human rights to First nations (as the UN recently condemned) and continue widescale systemic discrimination.

But you need to believe that a land acknowledgement before a hockey game solved everything because otherwise you would have to face how insanely hypocritical your views are.

 

[basketcase]

...

Fixed for accurate representation of my views.
...

Another disgusting asshole action of faking people's posts.

 

[basketcase]

...

As for Columbia itself, it is well known that if you constantly reject offers, it doesn't always mean you get better offers.
...

Or for the Arab/Palestinian leadership.

 

[basketcase]

I have no idea if they should.
My instinct is yes, because I generally think less killing is better than more and usually ceasefires - even temporary - are where negotiations can move towards extending them.
...

Unfortunately people with maximalist opinion are happy to keep those uncompromising views as they sit safely in Canada while not worrying about whether the people they claim to support actually get helped.

 

[basketcase]

By killing all of Hamas, how far does that go?
...

I love the Franky world view, claiming it's wrong to destroy what Canada sees as a terrorist organization while promoting the complete elimination of Israel.

 

[Frankfooter]

Another case where you think Arabs can't speak for themselves so instead you tell them what they say isn't what they want.

Correcting your lies, buddy.

While Canada is still actively stealing Indigenous land, refusing to provide basic human rights to First nations (as the UN recently condemned) and continue widescale systemic discrimination.

But you need to believe that a land acknowledgement before a hockey game solved everything because otherwise you would have to face how insanely hypocritical your views are.

Wow, you're right, the lack of clean water and slowness of the Truth and Reconciliation is just as bad as killing 40,000 people to take their land.
I can see why you post endlessly about Indigenous rights here.

I love the Franky world view, claiming it's wrong to destroy what Canada sees as a terrorist organization while promoting the complete elimination of Israel.

Israel has Kahanists elected to their government, recognized by Canada as terrorists.
So you think this means Canada should go and kill all of Israel's government now too?

Ben Gvir is a convicted terrorist supporter, do you think Canada should kill him and everyone in his city too?
Or is this another of your reasoning that is only based on your racial supremacy?

 

[Dutch Oven]

No one trusts Hamas, for good reason. Hamas must step down in favor of a freely elected successor, and agree not to seek engagement in politics again. All that is needed from Hamas is a full surrender, return of the hostages, and submission to trial for war crimes.

 

[Frankfooter]

No one trusts Hamas, for good reason. Hamas must step down in favor of a freely elected successor, and agree not to seek engagement in politics again. All that is needed from Hamas is a full surrender, return of the hostages, and submission to trial for war crimes.

Nobody trusts Netanyahu.
He and hist government should step down, give voting rights to all Palestinians and submit to war crime trials.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1788899602587873539

 

[Valcazar]

Did you not just argue that maybe this one isn't good enough?

Yes, but I wasn't going around demanding "a ceasefire" just as a general thing as if that was all that mattered.

 

[Valcazar]

The stated goals of Israel were the return of the hostages AND the elimination of Hamas.

IMO, if Hamas returned all of the hostages and fully surrendered, then yes Israel would cease their current aggression.

If only 1 of those 2 goals is achieved, it is not enough. I'm pretty sure that Israel/Net has been clear and consistent on that since Day1, Oct.7.

The goal is destroying Hamas.
The hostages have been entirely beside the point to the government.

And there were absolutely people saying "All Hamas has to do is return the hostages" as if it wasn't a ludicrous statement.

 

[shack]

And there were absolutely people saying "All Hamas has to do is return the hostages" as if it wasn't a ludicrous statement.

I remember watching Net's speech on Oct. 8 and I recall that he specifically said "destroy Hamas and return the hostages" as dual goals and I also believe that he has been consistent in that.

I can't be told to accept what others speculate as Israeli policy and whether their statements seem ludicrous or not to them.

 

[Frankfooter]

I remember watching Net's speech on Oct. 8 and I recall that he specifically said "destroy Hamas and return the hostages" as dual goals and I also believe that he has been consistent in that.

I can't be told to accept what others speculate as Israeli policy and whether their statements seem ludicrous or not to them.

He's been pretty clear.
A ceasefire would only be a pause before he 'finishes the job'.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1787908884465594484

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1788986217624682500