Two Biological Males Allowed to Fight in Female Div. At Paris Olympics

[Knuckle Ball]

If Jaya identified as a woman would Jaye be a woman?

Okay…I see your point. In real life, though, this rarely seems to happen. When a biological male actually does this then let’s look at it. I believe at this point the IOC rules would not allow James to compete.

In answer to your questions, though, if James identified as a woman but in all other aspects was a man then I would still address her as a woman (eg.using her prefeferred pronouns) out of respect to her wishes but would otherwise say she is not eligible to compete in the women’s division.

In other words, I think that how an athlete identifies (ie. male vs female) should be one but not the only criteria considered in these decisions.

 

[gollumtroll]

What's a woman?

 

[Valcazar]

FWIW…I find it interesting that back when women first participated in the modern Olympics in 1900 no one would have questioned Imane Khelif’s participating as a woman. She had a vagina, lived as a woman, etc. It was not until science developed the ability to identify chromosomes, measure testosterone, etc. that we could even have this conversation.

Back in 1900, people would have no doubt seen Khelif as having “manly” traits and would have probably assumed she was a lesbian but no one would have questioned her gender.

So…at this point, we have whatever it is that represents our best, evidence-based understanding of how to most fairly manage this issue and it will continue to evolve over time.

As to the people who are still angry because they wanted an excuse to bash the trans community and this isn’t it…#sorrynotsorry

Thanks for trying, even if none of this is going to sink in to these people.

 

[Valcazar]

The IBA only posted information on a Russian channel of Telegram, a social media network. It claims there were tests in 2022 and 2023, and that the boxers had failed an unspecified test ”because they have XY chromosomes.” That was picked up by Russian state media outlet TASS.

The type of tests have not been made public. The values of said tests have not been made public. The IBA is a deeply corrupt operation, sponsored by Russian gas giant Gazprom, and has been at war with the IOC since being suspended as a federation in 2019 and rendered unrecognized as a federation in 2023.

People still keep quoting the bit about "X/Y chromosomes" like there are actually any tests the IBA has presented.
There is one guy who said it on a Telegram channel, from what I understand.

 

[Knuckle Ball]

People still keep quoting the bit about "X/Y chromosomes" like there are actually any tests the IBA has presented.
There is one guy who said it on a Telegram channel, from what I understand.

Exactly. My first reaction was that it sounded like The IBA’s decision was something that should be taken seriously. After looking into it, though, it appears (according to The Star), that: “without proof, the IBA has the credibility of a Russian bot farm.” I think this is putting it charitably.

 

[Vinson]

How nice is this..

Boxing group to award prize money to Carini despite loss to Khelif

PARIS, Aug 3 (Reuters) - The International Boxing Association (IBA) will award Italy's Angela Carini, who lost her welterweight round-of-16 bout against Algerian Imane Khelif at the Paris Olympics in 46 seconds on Thursday, $50,000 in prize money, it said on Friday.
Carini pulled out in the first round after the Algerian, who is at the heart of a gender row, pummelled the Italian with a barrage of punches.

The IBA, which was stripped of its international recognition by the International Olympic Committee (IOC) last year, said Carini would receive $50,000, her federation a further $25,000 and her coach an additional $25,000.

"I do not understand why they killed women's boxing," IBA President Umar Kremlev said. "Only eligible athletes should compete in the ring for the sake of safety. I could not look at her tears."
Algeria's Khelif, and Taiwan double world champion Lin Yu-ting, were cleared to compete in

https://www.reuters.com/sports/olympics/boxing-iba-award-prize-money-italys-carini-despite-loss-algerias-khelif-2024-08-02/#:~:text=PARIS%2C%20Aug%203%20(Reuters),money%2C%20it%20said%20on%20Friday

.

 

[Knuckle Ball]

How nice is this..

Boxing group to award prize money to Carini despite loss to Khelif

PARIS, Aug 3 (Reuters) - The International Boxing Association (IBA) will award Italy's Angela Carini, who lost her welterweight round-of-16 bout against Algerian Imane Khelif at the Paris Olympics in 46 seconds on Thursday, $50,000 in prize money, it said on Friday.
Carini pulled out in the first round after the Algerian, who is at the heart of a gender row, pummelled the Italian with a barrage of punches.

The IBA, which was stripped of its international recognition by the International Olympic Committee (IOC) last year, said Carini would receive $50,000, her federation a further $25,000 and her coach an additional $25,000.

"I do not understand why they killed women's boxing," IBA President Umar Kremlev said. "Only eligible athletes should compete in the ring for the sake of safety. I could not look at her tears."
Algeria's Khelif, and Taiwan double world champion Lin Yu-ting, were cleared to compete in

https://www.reuters.com/sports/olympics/boxing-iba-award-prize-money-italys-carini-despite-loss-algerias-khelif-2024-08-02/#:~:text=PARIS%2C%20Aug%203%20(Reuters),money%2C%20it%20said%20on%20Friday

.

Why do you keep claiming this despite the countless concerns about the IBA’s credibility and the fact that Zhelif is not transgendered?

 

[Vinson]

Why do you keep claiming this despite the countless concerns about the IBA’s credibility and the fact that Zhelif is not transgendered?

When did you transition? Still doing pots of luck for antifa?

 

[Knuckle Ball]

When did you transition? Still doing pots of luck for antifa?

I’m not trans…but the Antifa Potluck Dinner has been a resounding success.

Thank you for sharing your BBQ Sauce recipe with us at last year’s event; we look forward to a healthy exchange of ideas at next year’s function and hope theree will be no need to involve the authorities.

PS- @mitchell76 is officially uninvited from next year’s event unless he promises to leave his megaphone at home and to use the Porta-Potties for their intended use only!

 

[Knuckle Ball]

For the record, Khelif’s boxing record coming into the Olympics was 43-9 (with 6 wins by KO). She was seeded 5th in her weight class when the Games began.

Thus, the narrative that Khelif is an unstoppable killing machine in the ring who is a danger to other women does not align with the facts.

 

[DesRicardo]

For the record, Khelif’s boxing record coming into the Olympics was 43-9 (with 6 wins by KO). She was seeded 5th in her weight class when the Games began.

Thus, the narrative that Khelif is an unstoppable killing machine in the ring who is a danger to other women does not align with the facts.

An unfair advantage is an unfair advantage. It doesn't matter how good or bad an athlete is.

Just like a failed drug test, is a failed drug test. You still receive a suspension even after a loss.

 

[Knuckle Ball]

An unfair advantage is an unfair advantage. It doesn't matter how good or bad an athlete is.

Just like a failed drug test, is a failed drug test. You still receive a suspension even after a loss.

Sure…but Khelif did not fail any drug test. Her testosterone levels are normal and the only claim of her having an XY chromosome comes from the IBA which will not release the test result and is known to have the credibility of a Russian bot farm.

Anyway…I would agree that if she was caught cheating then she should be disqualified…but that is NOT what happened. The only reason for bringing up her record is to dispel the myth that Khelif, though she did not cheat or do ANYTHING wrong, is somehow a danger to other women she fights due to her super-human punching power when this is not true either.

In fact, very little of the controversy surrounding this athlete is based in fact. This whole story is nothing but a bunch of hysterical pearl-clutching from people who hate the trans community and believed this was going to be a major culture-war victory for them. But when it turned out that the facts did not align with their narrative they keep decided not to let the facts get in the way of a good meltdown and doubled down on what they are saying.

This is the world that we have created for ourselves.
*barf*

 

[Vinson]

I’m not trans…but the Antifa Potluck Dinner has been a resounding success.

Thank you for sharing your BBQ Sauce recipe with us at last year’s event; we look forward to a healthy exchange of ideas at next year’s function and hope theree will be no need to involve the authorities.

PS- @mitchell76 is officially uninvited from next year’s event unless he promises to leave his megaphone at home and to use the Porta-Potties for their intended use only!

Of course you are, you're the only one that hits the ceiling in threads about trans even before the Olympics.

Oh and the pot of luck story was something you said with your other handle.

 

[Vinson]

 

[DesRicardo]

Sure…but Khelif did not fail any drug test. Her testosterone levels are normal and the only claim of her having an XY chromosome comes from the IBA which will not release the test result and is known to have the credibility of a Russian bot farm.

Anyway…I would agree that if she was caught cheating then she should be disqualified…but that is NOT what happened. The only reason for bringing up her record is to dispel the myth that Khelif, though she did not cheat or do ANYTHING wrong, is somehow a danger to other women she fights due to her super-human punching power when this is not true either.

In fact, very little of the controversy surrounding this athlete is based in fact. This whole story is nothing but a bunch of hysterical pearl-clutching from people who hate the trans community and believed this was going to be a major culture-war victory for them. But when it turned out that the facts did not align with their narrative they keep decided not to let the facts get in the way of a good meltdown and doubled down on what they are saying.

This is the world that we have created for ourselves.
*barf*

This is not about cheating. It's about eligibility.

No one is calling Khelif a cheater. But her eligibility is in question. You yourself said she is not a good boxer, but here she is closing in on a gold metal. Are we psychic or is it people like you are missing the point?

*Barf* indeed

 

[Knuckle Ball]

Angela Carini speaks out about loss to Khelif:

TikTok - Make Your Day

 

[Knuckle Ball]

This is not about cheating. It's about eligibility.

No one is calling Khelif a cheater. But her eligibility is in question. You yourself said she is not a good boxer, but here she is closing in on a gold metal. Are we psychic or is it people like you are missing the point?

*Barf* indeed

You are the one claiming that the situation is “just like a failed drug test.” Now you’re saying it’s nothing like a failed drug test and now it’s all about ”eligibility”.

Well…okay…please allow me to amend my previous answer:

“Sure…but Khelif did not fail any drug eligibility test. Her testosterone levels are normal and the only claim of her having an XY chromosome comes from the IBA which will not release the test result and is known to have the credibility of a Russian bot farm.

Anyway…I would agree that if she was caught cheating ineligible then she should be disqualified…but that is NOT what happened. The only reason for bringing up her record is to dispel the myth that Khelif, though she did not cheat or do ANYTHING wrong, is somehow a danger to other women she fights due to her super-human punching power when this is not true either.

In fact, very little of the controversy surrounding this athlete is based in fact. This whole story is nothing but a bunch of hysterical pearl-clutching from people who hate the trans community and believed this was going to be a major culture-war victory for them. But when it turned out that the facts did not align with their narrative they keep decided not to let the facts get in the way of a good meltdown and doubled down on what they are saying.

This is the world that we have created for ourselves.
*barf*”


Better?

 

[The Oracle]

You are the one claiming that the situation is “just like a failed drug test.” Now you’re saying it’s nothing like a failed drug test and now it’s all about ”eligibility”.

Well…okay…please allow me to amen my previous answer:

“Sure…but Khelif did not fail any drug eligibility test. Her testosterone levels are normal and the only claim of her having an XY chromosome comes from the IBA which will not release the test result and is known to have the credibility of a Russian bot farm.

Anyway…I would agree that if she was caught cheating ineligible then she should be disqualified…but that is NOT what happened. The only reason for bringing up her record is to dispel the myth that Khelif, though she did not cheat or do ANYTHING wrong, is somehow a danger to other women she fights due to her super-human punching power when this is not true either.

In fact, very little of the controversy surrounding this athlete is based in fact. This whole story is nothing but a bunch of hysterical pearl-clutching from people who hate the trans community and believed this was going to be a major culture-war victory for them. But when it turned out that the facts did not align with their narrative they keep decided not to let the facts get in the way of a good meltdown and doubled down on what they are saying.

This is the world that we have created for ourselves.
*barf*”


Better?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1820064806092636285

He's talking about the concept of the IBA tests for sex being flawed...The ''concept''...If he doesn't accept the concept then he doesn't accept the test result.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1820056686670799116

He's back to using a passport to identify sex again....Passports indicate ''gender'' today not biological sex.

KB I can't anywhere where Khelif has tested for hormone levels to determine sex .

Looks like the IOC changed their definitions of what constitutes a woman for competition in 2016 and this is the outcome.

 

[Valcazar]

I’m not trans…but the Antifa Potluck Dinner has been a resounding success.

Thank you for sharing your BBQ Sauce recipe with us at last year’s event; we look forward to a healthy exchange of ideas at next year’s function and hope theree will be no need to involve the authorities.

PS- @mitchell76 is officially uninvited from next year’s event unless he promises to leave his megaphone at home and to use the Porta-Potties for their intended use only!

I will bring my Anarchist Corn Bread as per usual.

 

[Valcazar]

He's talking about the concept of the IBA tests for sex being flawed...The ''concept''...If he doesn't accept the concept then he doesn't accept the test result.

Is there any actual evidence the IBA did a real test?
Isn't that part of the problem?

No results were ever released, not even to the boxer?

He's back to using a passport to identify sex again....Passports indicate ''gender'' today not biological sex.

Pretty sure that's not an issue in Algeria.

KB I can't anywhere where Khelif has tested for hormone levels to determine sex .

I seem to recall seeing it earlier, but I'd have to hunt it down and at this point finding out the real data from the bullshit is very hard.

Looks like the IOC changed their definitions of what constitutes a woman for competition in 2016 and this is the outcome.

The IOC has changed their rules on this repeatedly for decades now - maybe even 100 years.
No eligibility rule has ever appeased everyone.