The O's have an embarrassment of riches. After graduating a plethora of top prospects including Gunnar Henderson, Jackson Holliday, Grayson Rodriquez, Heston Kjerstad, Colton Cowser and Jordan Westburg, they still have two of the best prospects in the game in Coby Mayo and Samuel Basallo. They are an arm away from the World Series.
The 2025 Toronto Blue Jays
- Thread starter Toronto Passions
- Start date
- Jun 15, 2004
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I don’t think this team in 2025 is a last place team. Might have a chance at the third wildcard. The question is at the trade deadline what do they consider for being out of it? How many games back will that be and then that absolutely puts Guerrero on the trading block. And once Guerrero is traded, he will never look back at the organization that didn’t value him to his liking.
Philip
Philip
- Jun 15, 2004
- 8,418
- 1,584
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I don’t think the Blue Jays are worse than the Orioles necessarily, especially now that Toronto has Santander. If Bichette has a good year, that will change the complexion of this thing immediately.
The Yankees on the other hand look fantastic. Even better than last year imo. This could very well be an LA/New York Yankees final again.
Philip
Not so fast on crowning my Yankees.
Yes they acquired top closer Devin Williams and a top of the rotation pitcher in Max Fried. So good moves.
But Stanton won't start the season. They have DJ LeMahieu , who has been awful the last few years, at third. Paul Goldschmidt is aging and declining at first. Jasson Dominguez in left. They're worried that Dominguez can't play left even though he was a decent center fielder in the minors. He's misjudging easy balls out there. Cody Bellinger in center, who is 6 years removed from his MVP season and was just okay last year. Austin Wells is behind the plate. His hitting badly slumped in the second half last year. Anthony Volpe at short, who didn't meet expectations offensively last season.
They're pitching looks great on paper that's for sure but other than that there is a lot of question marks for a team that has the 4th highest payroll.
From what I can see this team is not going to score any runs. I hope I'm wrong.
I think the Yanks will try to address their 3B issues. They also need a LH bullpen arm. But they have far less holes in their team than the Jays do. And better depth.
I think you are underrating the O's. They are deep. Losing Burnes hurts no doubt but they still have a good rotation.
It's not just that the Orioles have those players. They have all of them with pre-arbitration salaries. Their combined salaries for 2025 will be almost the same as what the Blue Jays will be paying Myles Straw, the stiff they inherited from Cleveland for some International Bonus Pool money that they had hoped to use to land Sasaki.
The Orioles also get pick #'s 30 and 31 in this June's amateur draft, for losing Burnes and Santander.
Hal isn't going to raise the payroll any so how is he going address third?...He's not the free spender that his dad was.
Today we learned the Last years american League rookie of the year Luis Gil will not throw for 6 weeks with a high grade lat strain..He's probably gone for the first half of the season I'm afraid...Guess they're not trading Stroman after all.
The O's have a great development system with so many players now ready and they are a playoff team. As much talent as I have seen come in over a 2 to 4 year period.
That being said there management / ownership did a horrible job this offseason - their new ownership which was supposed to spend more are still being cheap. This is after bad trade deadline in 2024. They did a great job of drafting and development with so much talent, but they have been bad at consolidating assets and limiting their current window.
They are still going to be a very good team - I think I have them slightly ahead of the Yankees to win the East.
But management and ownership has not done them any favours since July 2024.
At the beginning of 2024, with new ownership that was supposed to spend, I figured we would be looking at a 100-105 win team moving forward. They are still easily a 90+ win team, but I think the next level was expected.
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- Jun 15, 2004
- 8,418
- 1,584
- 113
I miss Roger Clemens. I just watched two YouTube documentaries about his career. Roger Clemens and Sandy Koufax are the two greatest pitchers to ever walk the face of the earth. I don’t care about The Rocket “allegedly” needing a little extra rocket fuel lol. I know technically he’s not officially inducted into the Hall of Fame, but the hall actually has artifacts and memorabilia of his on display going back to his significant achievements. His 20 strikeout game for instance. I’m wondering if they have something pertaining to the 1999/2000 powerhouse Yankees. They make it appear as if he is a complete unmentioned stranger in the Hall of Fame… And this is simply not the case. - totally off topic.
DJ LeMahieu has been shut down with a calf issue and will not be ready to start the season.
Like I said he's been terrible the last few seasons but now they don't even have him.
Nolan Arenado?...That ticket though, yikes.
I agree with you. I would have tried like heck to keep Burnes instead of signing Morton. Especially since its unlikely that Bradish will be back in 2025. I guess we'll see how good this Japanese guy is.
3 years left at $30.5 million per. He's 34 in April, the power and average aren't close to what they were 5 years ago, albeit that was with the Mile High bump. But he still is an elite defender at the hot corner. Third has become quite a scarce position over the past few years. It depends what the Cards are asking for. If the Yanks can get the Cards to retain some of the salary in return for a package of prospects/picks it may be worthwhile. This is a big hole for them.
Yankees Potential Trade Target: Nolan Arenado
One of the best players of his era seems to be on the way out of St. Louis.
www.pinstripealley.com
This was before DJ went down...Let's see if their attitude changes.
When I think of calf issues I think about Donaldson...Plagued him for years at the end of his career.
I'm a fan of Arenado I certainly don't want to see him in pinstripes. But he does make sense for them.Yankees Potential Trade Target: Nolan Arenado
One of the best players of his era seems to be on the way out of St. Louis.
This was before DJ went down...Let's see if their attitude changes.
When I think of calf issues I think about Donaldson...Plagued him for years at the end of his career.
Matt Chapman stats
Nolan Arenado stats
Compare the two. Their salaries are similar, but Chapman has six years remaining, and Arenado has three. The Rockies still have $10 Million obligation over the next two seasons.
They should have beat Boston to the punch and nabbed Garrett Crochet.... they have so many position prospects that is where they had to make a consolidation move to get a big pitcher.
Creating some positivity here for the Jays in 2025. (not that there is not room for negativity als)
The 2023 Jays, a frustrating offensive team compared to 2021 and 2022, still won 89 games. So let's compare the 2025 Jays to the 2023 Jays.
5 Same Starters in Lineup - I think you can expect similar or perhaps even a tad better production in 2025 from these guys, just due to Vlad who had a mediocre 2023 offensively, and Kirk who was not good in 2023 either.
C Kirk
1B Vlad
SS Bichette
OF Springer
OF Varsho
Kirk, Vlad, and Varsho were all better in 2024 vs 2023. Vlad had a really mediocre 2023. Bo went down in 24, and Springer went down in 24.
4 Changes in Starting Lineup - Similar level of production from these 4 is quite possible.
Chapman / Clement
Belt / Santander
Merrifield / Gonzales
KK / Wagner
Belt and KK were actually quite productive in 2023, but if Santander can bash he can certainly be a bit better than Belt. Gonzales is a nice upgrade over Whit. Clement is a downgrade obviously, although Chapman in 2023 was not that good. Hope Wagner can be our Horwitz type bat this year. Gonzalez had a huge 2022, that maybe he can get back too.
I think they can possibly be a draw in 2025 production vs 2023.
Starting Rotation
2023 vs 2025
Gausman / Gausman
Bassitt / Bassitt
Berrios / Berrios
Kikuchi / Francis
Manoah+Ryu / Scherzer
Bassitt + Berrios were similar in 2023 and 2024, so its reasonable to expect 2025 to be similar to 2023.
Kikuchi was solid in 2023, but Francis we saw in second half can certainly match that productivity.
Gausman was great in 2023.... can't expect him to do that in 2025. Gausman 2025 is a big downgrade vs Gausman 2023
Manoah + RYU had a combined ERA over 5.00 in 2023, If Scherzer can get to 140+ innings this should be an upgrade.
I think its possible that the rotation production is as good in 2025 as 2023. Gausman won't be as good, but lots depends on Francis and Scherzer.
Bullpen
By the end of 2023 the Jays were running a very nice bullpen. Hicks + Romano at the end were solid. Swanson + Mayza were also very good as the 3+4. They were also getting production from #5-#7... Garcia (who was frustrating in 2023), Richards, Jackson, Genesis was a good bottom half.
The Bullpen was very bad in 2024. Should be much better in 2025 (Garcia, Sandlin, Hoffman), but I don't think its mearly as good as it was at the end of 2023. That being said some of that production in 2023 came via trade (Hicks, Cabrera). Jays if contending will probably look to add a bullpen arm.
Summary
Offence and Starters should be similar, with some upside potential (and of course downside as well).
Biggest decline is the Bullpen which was really rolling for the Jays by the end of 2023.
On offence I think we should be as good in 2025 in 2023, if we get good Vlad.
Of course will need a big Bo bounce back (he was so bad in 2024 that he has to at least improve). Nothing is ever certain on other guys but a nice year from Wagner, and a bounce back from Gimenez would be nice. Of course I also see a scenario where we have a .195 hitting Santander with about 30 HR's and low OBP... which is not a good player.
Starters really depends on Francis and Scherzer.
The 2023 Jays, a frustrating offensive team compared to 2021 and 2022, still won 89 games. So let's compare the 2025 Jays to the 2023 Jays.
5 Same Starters in Lineup - I think you can expect similar or perhaps even a tad better production in 2025 from these guys, just due to Vlad who had a mediocre 2023 offensively, and Kirk who was not good in 2023 either.
C Kirk
1B Vlad
SS Bichette
OF Springer
OF Varsho
Kirk, Vlad, and Varsho were all better in 2024 vs 2023. Vlad had a really mediocre 2023. Bo went down in 24, and Springer went down in 24.
4 Changes in Starting Lineup - Similar level of production from these 4 is quite possible.
Chapman / Clement
Belt / Santander
Merrifield / Gonzales
KK / Wagner
Belt and KK were actually quite productive in 2023, but if Santander can bash he can certainly be a bit better than Belt. Gonzales is a nice upgrade over Whit. Clement is a downgrade obviously, although Chapman in 2023 was not that good. Hope Wagner can be our Horwitz type bat this year. Gonzalez had a huge 2022, that maybe he can get back too.
I think they can possibly be a draw in 2025 production vs 2023.
Starting Rotation
2023 vs 2025
Gausman / Gausman
Bassitt / Bassitt
Berrios / Berrios
Kikuchi / Francis
Manoah+Ryu / Scherzer
Bassitt + Berrios were similar in 2023 and 2024, so its reasonable to expect 2025 to be similar to 2023.
Kikuchi was solid in 2023, but Francis we saw in second half can certainly match that productivity.
Gausman was great in 2023.... can't expect him to do that in 2025. Gausman 2025 is a big downgrade vs Gausman 2023
Manoah + RYU had a combined ERA over 5.00 in 2023, If Scherzer can get to 140+ innings this should be an upgrade.
I think its possible that the rotation production is as good in 2025 as 2023. Gausman won't be as good, but lots depends on Francis and Scherzer.
Bullpen
By the end of 2023 the Jays were running a very nice bullpen. Hicks + Romano at the end were solid. Swanson + Mayza were also very good as the 3+4. They were also getting production from #5-#7... Garcia (who was frustrating in 2023), Richards, Jackson, Genesis was a good bottom half.
The Bullpen was very bad in 2024. Should be much better in 2025 (Garcia, Sandlin, Hoffman), but I don't think its mearly as good as it was at the end of 2023. That being said some of that production in 2023 came via trade (Hicks, Cabrera). Jays if contending will probably look to add a bullpen arm.
Summary
Offence and Starters should be similar, with some upside potential (and of course downside as well).
Biggest decline is the Bullpen which was really rolling for the Jays by the end of 2023.
On offence I think we should be as good in 2025 in 2023, if we get good Vlad.
Of course will need a big Bo bounce back (he was so bad in 2024 that he has to at least improve). Nothing is ever certain on other guys but a nice year from Wagner, and a bounce back from Gimenez would be nice. Of course I also see a scenario where we have a .195 hitting Santander with about 30 HR's and low OBP... which is not a good player.
Starters really depends on Francis and Scherzer.
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