A Great Night For Democrats: Referendum On Trump

WyattEarp

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Newsom's problem was his own doing...he didn't really addressed the wildfires, he hasn't addressed the increasing homeless problem...IMO, i was actually believing he could've beat Trump in the 2024 election had the democrats annointed him instead of Kamala...Kamala had a bad rep then and Newsom hasn't been exposed yet.
Newsom will be a huge force in the Democratic primaries.
In the general, he will have to defend California gas prices, high taxes as well as the issues you noted.
Most Democratic Governors that run for President don't have to defend such polarizing policies.

Now I realize Newsom was handed these problems.
But that's the same argument against Newsom repeatedly saying California is the fourth largest economy in the world.
He inherited that from many decades of technological innovation and population growth.
 
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Frankfooter

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I have a feeling Trudeau would not have won a third term if he didn't call for an early COVID-era vote in 2021.
I realize you have a multiparty system, but the Liberals under Trudeau also won historically low vote totals for a ruling Canadian party.

But again winning elections doesn't validate strong leadership or "stones" as I mentioned.

By the way, I will stand corrected my original statement. Saying Rubio has stones was the wrong word. I think Rubio is relatively popular.
(You should take note. It's okay to admit a mistaken statement on the forum.)
I don't think you understand Canadian politics, but then you come from a binary system where both parties just represent different groups of oligarchs.
In Ontario DoFo wins despite the libs and NPD getting 6% more votes between them.
The conservatives in Canada have done their own form of gerrymandering by all holding out in Alberta and the prairies.
Even with the left split between libs, NDP, greens and Bloc, the cons don't have votes and distribution around the country to win very often.
And with PeePee leaving the trad conservative role and becoming maple MAGA, it means the cons will have an even harder time of it.
 

WyattEarp

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What the American needs to realize is that, since Reagan, every republican tenure has been an economic disaster. Each time it took the democrats to fix it.

You can refuse to recognize history. But you can't rewrite it.
There really was only one Presidency that conforms to your imagination........George W. Bush.

You need to be more humble. The Canadian economy has been wallowing in mediocrity for ten plus years.
 
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WyattEarp

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My take is that the democrat base is fired up. And, the GOP didn't mobilize...either because of apathy or just pissed at the way the US is being run. It is very much a referendum on Trump, and the first warning sign to his administration that the gravy train of his bullshit being rubber stamped by an ineffective congress will end in 12 months.

But Trump knows this already. Why else would he ask Texas to redistrict the state for the 2026 mid-term elections to give him (hopefully) more seats? Because he knows he cannot win on his record. I am well aware that things can change dramatically within the next year. But Trump will likely have triggered a recession by then. And he continues to do things that are unpopular for the average person not in the cult. And it appears that the cult's numbers are shrinking.
Every off-cycle American election, TERB and MERB members on the right or left go through these silly election postmortems. Midterms move away from the party in the White House. As further emphasis, off-off-cycle Governor elections in Virginia and New Jersey rarely give an indication of the future. As was noted above, Kamala Harris won both states. About one million less people in New Jersey and one million less people in Virginia voted last night as opposed to last November. No, people didn't stay home to protest Trump. There is just a high-propensity of truly motivated voters in off-off-cycle elections.

Now, as for Mamdani, I think he is tapping into a populous that is sick of seeing the rich become richer by basically standing on the necks of everybody else. They see rent prices rising, which doesn't really hurt the mega rich. And, for anyone saying the wealthy will leave...please. NYC is the place to be. It has the nightlife, the restaurants, the cultural stuff, sports and theatre. It is the financial hub, where deals are made and fortunes are won or lost. Where else would they go? Texas? Florida? lol. Maybe for the winter...
Markets and capitalism have become increasingly fast and mobile in the digital age. The idea that you have to be in NYC to make deals or trade is probably an outmoded concept. After all, why can't some financiers just meet in Connecticut or elsewhere.

NYC's high prices (of which I would argue have always been an issue) are the result of its success. NYC doesn't just attract domestic money it attracts global money. The global money has a lot of options.

The trick for Mamdani beyond the rhetoric is how does he do all the things he wants to do without hurting the tax base. NY State can't help him. The high tax rates and stagnating tax base have hamstrung the State's ability to raise further taxes.

As some commentators have noted, if you are in a career that doesn't pay enough to live a NYC lifestyle the smart thing is to move to a more affordable city. You know the phrase "fake it til you make it". At some point, you gotta stop faking it and move on.
 

WyattEarp

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Why? I don't remember to have made a mistaken statement before.
Obama the Libertarian among others.

You might want to argue with members for the sake of it, but it's frivolous to argue with respected and relatively impartial commentary.
 

Shaquille Oatmeal

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Jun 2, 2023
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Obama the Libertarian among others.

You might want to argue with members for the sake of it, but it's obnoxious to argue with respected and relatively impartial commentary.
That wasn't a mistake. I explained why your definition of Obama being progressive was incorrect.
 

WyattEarp

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That wasn't a mistake. I explained why your definition of Obama being progressive was incorrect.
You dug in on your statement that Obama was a Libertarian.

See this exactly where we differ. You see everything through a partisan prism.
In my opinion, Obama governed more as a center left President than a progressive. That helped him in 2012.
 

jalimon

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Jan 10, 2016
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There really was only one Presidency that conforms to your imagination........George W. Bush.

You need to be more humble. The Canadian economy has been wallowing in mediocrity for ten plus years.
Not true. Every gop tenure has ended in war, recession or both.

Yet, we have a better quality of life in Canada. Ok, right, we do not have many billionaires, so I guess you are correct, we suck.
 

WyattEarp

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Not true. Every gop tenure has ended in war, recession or both.

Yet, we have a better quality of life in Canada. Ok, right, we do not have many billionaires, so I guess you are correct, we suck.
How low does someone have to go to blame a global COVID recession on a U.S. President? Incidentally, things were very good at the end of George H. Bush's Presidency. A mild recession ended in 1991. The First Gulf War was long over by November, 1992. It's simply hard for one party to win the White House four terms in a row.

Again, I think this is a projection that if you post something enough times it will make it true. Music to your ears sort of speak.

As far as government, you do understand that far larger U.S. tax base per capita and sustained growth rate finances the Western defense umbrella and helps absorb global overproduction.

I can explain this here until I am blue in the face. Recessions are not a sign of an unhealthy economy. Strong growth rates with periodic slowdowns are not only necessary they are optimal. Even the 2009 recession was succeeded with a U.S. economy in 2010 that exceeded 2007-2008. In contrast, Canadians over the last ten plus years might not feel the cycle because there has not been a noticeable upswing.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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I really expected more wackiness from the "Confirmation Bias Carnival" in these threads.
How refreshing.
 

WyattEarp

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There is no left in the US. Even AOC is proposing measures that all of the parties of Canada, all of Europe, australia, New Zealand have.
Not true.
There are strong right parties in many Western democracies that believe in backing off of renewable energy, curbing immigration, cutting red tape and even incentivizing businesses. Many of them have low corporate tax rates.

Canada has experienced relatively calm politics for quite a few years. That doesn't necessarily guarantee good policy. Consensus is just as likely to bring mediocre leadership and policy. As I pointed out, four terms of the relatively popular German leader Angela Merkel have been followed with her policies looking horrible in hindsight.

So I see you're going to keep at this projection of your politics on the U.S. and global stage. We can't explain dynamism to someone who either doesn't understand it or doesn't appreciate it.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Not true.
There are strong right parties in many Western democracies that believe in backing off of renewable energy, curbing immigration, cutting red tape and even incentivizing businesses. Many of them have low corporate tax rates.

Canada has experienced relatively calm politics for quite a few years. That doesn't necessarily guarantee good policy. Consensus is just as likely to bring mediocre leadership and policy. As I pointed out, four terms of the relatively popular German leader Angela Merkel have been followed with her policies looking horrible in hindsight.

So I see you're going to keep at this projection of your politics on the U.S. and global stage. We can't explain dynamism to someone who either doesn't understand it or doesn't appreciate it.
What is your metric for economic success?
Is it the wealth of oligarchs?

Its not health, happiness, freedom, media freedom, private safety or longevity.

 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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There is no left in the US. Even AOC is proposing measures that all of the parties of Canada, all of Europe, australia, New Zealand have.
In many ways the whole "the Democrats are a right-wing party" has a lot to do whether you think the environment things are being proposed in counts or not.
If you go by "what is the thing being proposed" you have one answer. If you go by "are their proposals about moving things to the left or to the right" you have another.

To remove it from reality some for the sake of analogy
- imagine a birthday party that has no cake. Someone suggests that the group pitch in and bake a cake to share.
- at another birthday party, the food is catered and there are 6 cakes. Someone proposes the person whose birthday it is and their best friend get 3 cakes and 2 cakes each. The rest of the party can split the one cake.

In both cases, the majority of the guests get part of one cake.
Are those two proposals therefore exactly the same from the point of view of "how do we fairly get people cake"?
 
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