Arar to get $10000000.00?

[booboobear]

are you arguing that others should have got more or that because we have treated the others in an unfair way we should treat arar unfairly?

My argument is tufold . My main point is there have been many people who have beem unjustly imprisoned in some cases for 10 years or more yet received little or nothing , yes they should definitely receive more . In light of this I believe Arar's settlement was driven a lot by political correctness , Canada wanted to appear fair in the eyes of the world , yes I think he of course should receive compensation but I think 10 mill plus lawyers fees is too much compared to what others received . The lawyer must be happy .

 

[red]

My argument is tufold . My main point is there have been many people who have beem unjustly imprisoned in some cases for 10 years or more yet received little or nothing , yes they should definitely receive more . In light of this I believe Arar's settlement was driven a lot by political correctness , Canada wanted to appear fair in the eyes of the world , yes I think he of course should receive compensation but I think 10 mill plus lawyers fees is too much compared to what others received . The lawyer must be happy .

ok- but compare it to what was paid to mulroney. no jail time, no torture- he got $3 million.

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

Lets leave it at that then, I can respect that you may find disappoinment at my views, i do tend to elicit that response from many. Equally true though is that those who take great pains to ensure the " rights" of others ahead of Canadians ultimately need to rely on those with views similar to mine to protect them later Think of Winston during the Wilderness years when he was ridiculed from every corner of polite society for his controversial views. the winds did change, as they shall here.

Churchill carried the torch for justice, freedom and human rights.

I think you would probably find him on the other side of your argument.

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

My argument is tufold . My main point is there have been many people who have beem unjustly imprisoned in some cases for 10 years or more yet received little or nothing , yes they should definitely receive more . In light of this I believe Arar's settlement was driven a lot by political correctness , Canada wanted to appear fair in the eyes of the world , yes I think he of course should receive compensation but I think 10 mill plus lawyers fees is too much compared to what others received . The lawyer must be happy .

When you say unjustly imprisoned, do you mean those who were found guilty and later found innocent (Guy Paul Morin, David Milgard)?


If so, it's not the same thing.

 

[booboobear]

ok- but compare it to what was paid to mulroney. no jail time, no torture- he got $3 million.

You are right there he should be locked up along with Cretien.

 

[booboobear]

When you say unjustly imprisoned, do you mean those who were found guilty and later found innocent (Guy Paul Morin, David Milgard)?


If so, it's not the same thing.

So how much is 5 or 10 or 15 yrs of your youth worth compared to 1 year lbeit with torture . What about prison rape. Try to fit into society after missing 10 years . Of course it's not th e same thing but just as bad .

 

[Quest4Less]

Still looking...

for "proof"....

I'm not saying that he didn't get tortured - I'm just wondering if there was ever any proof? Does he have scars, burn marks....?

10 million is a small price to pay if he was tortured and has done nothing wrong.

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

So how much is 5 or 10 or 15 yrs of your youth worth compared to 1 year lbeit with torture . What about prison rape. Try to fit into society after missing 10 years . Of course it's not th e same thing but just as bad .

Not even close.

Guy Paul Morin and David Milgard were convicted because they were found guilty by their peers in a trial.

The absence of a trial is the important distinction in the Arar case.

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

for "proof"....

I'm not saying that he didn't get tortured - I'm just wondering if there was ever any proof? Does he have scars, burn marks....?

10 million is a small price to pay if he was tortured and has done nothing wrong.

The burden of proof should have been left on our government to prove Arar's guilt in the first place.

 

[booboobear]

Not even close.

Guy Paul Morin and David Milgard were convicted because they were found guilty by their peers in a trial.

The absence of a trial is the important distinction in the Arar case.

I am sorry but you ar emissing the point in both situations there was false evidence whether Arar got a trial or not he was imprisoned based on false information AS WAS Guy Paul . The fact there was a trial doesn't mean they aren't entitled to compensation . I suppose if you were falsely arrested for murder and jailed 10 years it's ok as long as you got a trial.

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

I am sorry but you ar emissing the point in both situations there was false evidence whether Arar got a trial or not he was imprisoned based on false information AS WAS Guy Paul . The fact there was a trial doesn't mean they aren't entitled to compensation.

You're missing the point, not me.

The fundamental right we all share in our justice system is that we are innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof remains on the system to prove our guilt in a court of law. At least that's the way it's supposed to be.

Although Guy Paul Morin was convicted due to false information, he had the opportunity to face his accusers and make his case. The onus was on the prosecution to prove Morin's guilt. His subsequent conviction only proved the system isn't perfect.

Arar never had a chance to test the system. This is what concerns me, and should concern all Canadians. If not for Arar, at least for themselves.

I suppose if you were falsely arrested for murder and jailed 10 years it's ok as long as you got a trial.

You're putting words in my mouth, I never said that.

 

[LancsLad]

Churchill carried the torch for justice, freedom and human rights.

I think you would probably find him on the other side of your argument.

No, paramount to Churchill was the preservation of home. In the classic Nelsonian approach or that used by his ancestor the Duke of Marlborough it is incumbent upon those charged with protecting the liberty of Britain to act with the utmost ferocity and aggressiveness in defeating without qualification, the enemy. Only when he is prostrate and at your mercy do you show any compassion.
The battle of us vs. them had been joined and is not yet over.

In protecting the realm Churchill would have very much been on the same side I occupy.

 

[booboobear]

You're missing the point, not me.

The fundamental right we all share in our justice system is that we are innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof remains on the system to prove our guilt in a court of law. At least that's the way it's supposed to be.

Although Guy Paul Morin was convicted due to false information, he had the opportunity to face his accusers and make his case. The onus was on the prosecution to prove Morin's guilt. His subsequent conviction only proved the system isn't perfect.

Arar never had a chance to test the system. This is what concerns me, and should concern all Canadians. If not for Arar, at least for themselves.



You're putting words in my mouth, I never said that.

Well no I don't think I am putting words in your mouth but I still can't decide if you think Morin shouldn't receive 10 million then I am I guess.


I understand our "rights" under the justice system better than you , the key being our " right " to a fair trial , now if evidence is false how can a trial be fair ? So if ARAr had a trial based on false info it is then ok to deport and torture him with no compensation is that it. My premise is if you are falsely convicted you deserve compensation you either agree or you don't.

 

[Questor]

But to be clear - Mr. Arar is a Canadian citizen- so in now way is this settlement putting the rights of "others" ahead of Canadians. It is about protecting the rights of Canadians.

To be clear, in Lancslad's murky mind, Mr. Arar is not a Canadian because he is not of European descent. (see his post on British citizenship) If you read over his posts in this thread, you will see he is constantly referring to "we" and "they". So the settlement is putting "them" (non whites) ahead of "us" (whites, and preferably British). He is a terribly insecure fellow who lives in a constant state of hate and fear. A sad case, really.

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

No, paramount to Churchill was the preservation of home. In the classic Nelsonian approach or that used by his ancestor the Duke of Marlborough it is incumbent upon those charged with protecting the liberty of Britain to act with the utmost ferocity and aggressiveness in defeating without qualification, the enemy. Only when he is prostrate and at your mercy do you show any compassion.
The battle of us vs. them had been joined and is not yet over.

In protecting the realm Churchill would have very much been on the same side I occupy.

When we deny fundamental rights to any of our citizens, we are all susceptible to the same treatment. Adhering to this belief does more for "protecting the liberty" than anything else.

If any of us can be hauled out of bed in the middle of the night and convicted without trial, I would question what liberties we are protecting?

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

Well no I don't think I am putting words in your mouth but I still can't decide if you think Morin shouldn't receive 10 million then I am I guess.


I understand our "rights" under the justice system better than you , the key being our " right " to a fair trial , now if evidence is false how can a trial be fair ? So if ARAr had a trial based on false info it is then ok to deport and torture him with no compensation is that it. My premise is if you are falsely convicted you deserve compensation you either agree or you don't.

Yes, if you are falsely convicted you deserve compensation too. I've never denied this.

But, as I've said all along, I'm not concerned with the compensation issue. I'm more concerned with the conviction without a trial issue.

You claim to have a broader understanding of the justice system than me. If that's the case, you should be concerned about this too.

 

[red]

the real question in my mind, is that there has been no impact on those who knowingly leaked fale information. where is the responsibility?

 

[booboobear]

Yes, if you are falsely convicted you deserve compensation too. I've never denied this.

But, as I've said all along, I'm not concerned with the compensation issue. I'm more concerned with the conviction without a trial issue.

You claim to have a broader understanding of the justice system than me. If that's the case, you should be concerned about this too.

I agree we should all be concerned about false convictions . If ARAR is a Canadian citizen I am surprised he was even deported to be tried or should I say jailed outside of Canada . When someone receives a trial yes we can say well he got a trial but if eveidence is flawed we must compensate this person also for the loss of years of his life.

 

[FOOTSNIFFER]

Agree completely with you, dj1470!
If you convert that to USD it doesn't even come to $8.5 million!!!!!!!
For what Arar went through that's peanuts!!!!
Arar should have at least got double that amount!!!

dj1470,
Your 'compassionate conservatism' is truly commendable and noted......
Double, Shame Stephen Harper. Double Shame!!

Woodpecker, you're beyond help. Arar was tortured WHILE THE LIE-BERALS WERE IN POWER!! It was harper that did the responsible thing by apologizing, forcing the RCMP commissioner out, and paying compensation in a timely manner (instead after 10 years of delaying litigation, the way the liberals typically do). Mind you, he did so for political reasons too, in that he got rid of Zaccardelli, and gave him an opportunity to distance himself from a USA without alienating the US administration, with which he has been too closely linked by public opinion. If democracy means anything it means holding the elites accountable for their actions; harper has at least given me some assurance that this principle holds in canada. I still think that the people who most directly made decisions in the bureaucracy that cost us money should be identified and reprimanded, otherwise they'll just get a free ride. But that's just bumbling Canada....this place'll never change.

 

[slowpoke]

We don't go to Al Quada training camps so the scenario you propose is not possible.

He denies ever having any involvement with AQ or being in one of their training camps.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/21/60II/main594974.shtml
Arar says the physical torture took place during the first two weeks, but he says he also went through psychological and mental torture: “They would take me back to a room, they call it the waiting room. And I hear people screaming. And they, I mean, people, they're being tortured. And I felt my heart was going to go out of my chest.”

But Imad Moustapha, Syria’s highest-ranking diplomat in Washington, says Arar was treated well. He also told Mabrey that Syrian intelligence had never heard of Arar before the U.S. government asked Syria to take him.

Did the U.S. give them any evidence to back up the claim that Arar was a suspected al Qaeda terrorist?

“No. But we did our investigations. We traced links. We traced relations. We tried to find anything. We couldn’t,” says Moustapha, who adds that they shared their reports with the U.S. “We always share information with anybody alleged to be in close contact with al Qaeda with the United States.”

The Syrians allowed Canadian officials six short visits with Arar. But Arar says he was warned not to tell them about the torture or how he was being held – in an underground cell 3 feet wide, 6 feet long and 7 feet high. It was his home for a full 10 months.

“It's a grave. It’s the same size of a grave. It’s a dark place. It’s underground,” says Arar.

He says the Syrians were pressing him to confess he’d been to an al Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan: “They just wanted to find something that the Americans did not find -- and that’s when they asked me about Afghanistan. They said, ‘You’ve been to Afghanistan,’ so they would hit me three, four times. And, if I hesitate, they would hit me again.”

Arar says he signed a confession because he was “ready to do anything to stop the torture.” But he claims that he had never been to Afghanistan, or trained at a terrorist camp. “Just one hit of this cable, it's like you just forget everything in your life. Everything,” he says.
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