Actually out f the country for the a good chunk of it on the other side of the world, so forgive me. I did google and got caught up.
Are you all gonna get mad a Barbara Kay as well?
- Thread starter Steve~
- Start date
... from my reading, it's clear that the decision to offer a state funeral is that of the Prime Minister and our PM decided it to be appropriate.
Now when we look at the fact that Layton died while in leadership of the opposition (correct me if I'm wrong but Laurier and MacDonald were the only other two to die in similar circumstance but both were former PMs), there is indeed no real precident. We offer state funerals to past Governor Generals (who are of course appointed), how could we question Layton's state funeral? We offer state funerals to non-government officials.... how is the discretion used to offer a state funeral to Layton questionable seeing as he was supported by such a large number of Canadians to represent them only to have his time cut short? I don't think the state funeral is just about Layton (though I believe he deserves it). There are a lot of Canadians who felt this man represented what they wanted for our country and they-too deserve a certain amount of respect and acknowledgement from their government.
Now look at the fact that Layton had just taken office. He's devoted pretty-much his entire career to public service.... Yes, he was never PM. Yes, being leader of a party that had little strength until this past election leaves his federal political record void of noteworthy blips to add to his Wikipedia list of accomplishments...
But this man was a Canadian who fought with all of his heart for what he felt in his heart.... (and all of what his heart fought for was undeniably good - perhaps his ideas could be argued but his intention was "good").
I know I sound like a bleeding heart and I don't support the NDP.... but based on how he has served our city and our country and based on the timing of his death, I fully-agree with the state funeral.
Did you know Layton was one of the founders of the white ribbon campaign supporting awareness in the fight against violence against women? That campaign is active in 65+ countries now The rights of women, the homeless, homosexuals, students, the working class of our country... Layton fought and his heart was always in the right place.
I'm not naive ~ I know politicians say a lot of things to gain support from the public... ,I know the media is pushing the bleeding heart story right now.... despite that, I believe Layton was a good man.
When I went to Nathan Phillips Square last night to see the chalk memorials there was one message that stood out: "Jack Layton was what we should all aspire to be as Canadians". Thisis how I view Layton. I don't necessarily agree with all he stood for but in-terms of his social ideals (those which I most value as a Canadian), his heart was in the same place as mine (and many others). To me, he epitomized good and equality.... and I am proud to have had him involved in my federal government.
If it's up to our Prime Minister's discretion and our Prime Minister decided that the state funeral is deserved, and many many former colleagues and citizens fully-support the decision, I cannot understand why the decision is under scrutiny.
Now when we look at the fact that Layton died while in leadership of the opposition (correct me if I'm wrong but Laurier and MacDonald were the only other two to die in similar circumstance but both were former PMs), there is indeed no real precident. We offer state funerals to past Governor Generals (who are of course appointed), how could we question Layton's state funeral? We offer state funerals to non-government officials.... how is the discretion used to offer a state funeral to Layton questionable seeing as he was supported by such a large number of Canadians to represent them only to have his time cut short? I don't think the state funeral is just about Layton (though I believe he deserves it). There are a lot of Canadians who felt this man represented what they wanted for our country and they-too deserve a certain amount of respect and acknowledgement from their government.
Now look at the fact that Layton had just taken office. He's devoted pretty-much his entire career to public service.... Yes, he was never PM. Yes, being leader of a party that had little strength until this past election leaves his federal political record void of noteworthy blips to add to his Wikipedia list of accomplishments...
But this man was a Canadian who fought with all of his heart for what he felt in his heart.... (and all of what his heart fought for was undeniably good - perhaps his ideas could be argued but his intention was "good").
I know I sound like a bleeding heart and I don't support the NDP.... but based on how he has served our city and our country and based on the timing of his death, I fully-agree with the state funeral.
Did you know Layton was one of the founders of the white ribbon campaign supporting awareness in the fight against violence against women? That campaign is active in 65+ countries now The rights of women, the homeless, homosexuals, students, the working class of our country... Layton fought and his heart was always in the right place.
I'm not naive ~ I know politicians say a lot of things to gain support from the public... ,I know the media is pushing the bleeding heart story right now.... despite that, I believe Layton was a good man.
When I went to Nathan Phillips Square last night to see the chalk memorials there was one message that stood out: "Jack Layton was what we should all aspire to be as Canadians". Thisis how I view Layton. I don't necessarily agree with all he stood for but in-terms of his social ideals (those which I most value as a Canadian), his heart was in the same place as mine (and many others). To me, he epitomized good and equality.... and I am proud to have had him involved in my federal government.
If it's up to our Prime Minister's discretion and our Prime Minister decided that the state funeral is deserved, and many many former colleagues and citizens fully-support the decision, I cannot understand why the decision is under scrutiny.
Many of you TERBites may remember that Barbara Kay wrote an incredibly prudish article a year back against legalization of pay-for-play, so adjust your opinions accordingly. 
i deleted it but my error had already been caught. I questioned whether the Bloc was ever the official opposition (which they were).
I was young then.... forgive me
(ps. I only use one handle.... I'm unintelligent enough to post as myself when I probably shouldn't lol)
Okay, but based on that criteria he shouldn't since at the time of his death he was no longer in that role, he stepped down a while back.
This is all nothing but bullshit polictics 101, simple distraction.
the state funeral was harper's idea, so if you Jack haters don't like it, why not attack harper?
State funeral or not, Jack touched a lot of people and his funeral would be a big event anyway....like Maurice Richard"s funeral , the emotions stirred in the people create a huge event by themselves. To those who can't get past the fact that Jack was a socialist, keep your bitter mouth shut for at least a week or you simply expose yourself as a crass arsehole. Terry Fox was not perfect either but would you show up at his funeral to list his faults? Not if you consider yourself a decent, civilized human being.
State funeral or not, Jack touched a lot of people and his funeral would be a big event anyway....like Maurice Richard"s funeral , the emotions stirred in the people create a huge event by themselves. To those who can't get past the fact that Jack was a socialist, keep your bitter mouth shut for at least a week or you simply expose yourself as a crass arsehole. Terry Fox was not perfect either but would you show up at his funeral to list his faults? Not if you consider yourself a decent, civilized human being.
Again, here is where this all goes off of the rails, at the time of his death he was not the leader of the NDP, he had stepped down and there was an interim leader put into place.
Again, your facts are a little off. The Prime Minister nly offered the option of a state funeral to Olivia Chow; she (being the consumate professional and never one to turn down a photo op) was the one who decided that there was to be a state funeral.
how are my facts off? Everything I've read clearly states that there are no set rules as to who is entitled to a state funeral. It is up to the Prime Minister's discretion and seeing as we have never been in a similar circumstance, this indeed sets a precedent but it's one that I can understand and I (and many other Canadians) support.
Hurray for democracy....
I brought the BQ opposition leaders name into it because if Jack Layton gets a state Funeral (which again I am fine with) that sets a precedence and potential expectation that other Opposition leaders will get one. And there is no way that anyone from the BQ should be honoured in such a way.
I also didn't bother to list the dates they were opposition leaders as I thought everyone knew the BQ was the official opposition for a time.
I also didn't bother to list the dates they were opposition leaders as I thought everyone knew the BQ was the official opposition for a time.
Your facts are off because you claim the Prime Minister decided...he did not. Olivia Chow did.
By the way we've had alot of beloved policiticans pass away in the history of Canada, even former leaders of the opposition (which Jack Layton was....a former leader) that never got a state funeral, or got to lie in state.So when someone like Preston Manning passes away will you expect the same to happen?
Also we are not a democracy but a constitutional monarchy.
Yes, and that indeed is one of the points that Barbara Kay addressed in her column - “Dianalation.”
Indeed it would be the height of crassness to criticize the man to his family or friends at this time.
With apologies to anyone on TERB who fits into those two categories, he was a political figure and although loved by his supporters also a divisive political figure.
There are really three separate issues involved 1) those who feel that this sort of “Dianalation” is an unhealthy thing for our society 2) those who feel that merely because he has died, does not mean that those who disagreed with him should suddenly stop doing so. society 3) Those who question whether a State Funeral should have been offered.
As for myself as regards Dr. Layton, a State Funeral was offered and accepted, but that still leaves the first two points.
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You really are splitting a point. Had the PM not made the offer, the Olivia Chow would have missed the chance of a 'photo op'. You can't get more cynical. So every time we here of a state funeral, we now consider it a photo op. Did the Trudeau children, all consummate professional in their own right choose the state funeral as a photo op? I doubt it. Layton was still leader, expecting to return to his responsibilities in the near future and only 'sidelined' because of an illness.
Canada is Constitutional monarchy and a democracy.
From; http://www.parl.gc.ca/About/Senate/Monarchy/SenMonarchy_00-e.htm
Canada is a constitutional monarchy. Since 1534, when the King of France claimed possession of what is now Canada, the history of our country has been marked by the reigns of an uninterrupted succession of monarchs, both French and British, who have had a significant influence on our country's development.
Under the Crown, Canada developed first as a colony of two empires, originally the French and subsequently the British, then as an independent dominion, and now as an entirely sovereign nation. The Crown occupies a central place in our Parliament and our democracy, founded on the rule of law and respect for rights and freedoms; the Crown embodies the continuity of the state and is the underlying principle of its institutional unity . The Crown is fused to all three branches of government. The Prime Minister, as head of the Executive, is the Governor General's principal advisor; the Crown is also a constituent element of Parliament, with the Senate and the House of Commons; and finally, all decisions made by the courts are given in the Crown's name.
The most important characteristic of Canada's constitutional monarchy has been its ability to adapt to changing conditions over the course of our evolution from colony to nation. In the Senate Foyer and the Salon de la Francophonie hang the portraits of the kings and queens in whose names our laws have been, and continue to be, enacted.
I can offer you more sources if you'd like.
No I'm clarifying what actually happened.
Your analogy of the Trudeau children is incorrect. Trudeau was not only a Prime Minister but a former Cabinet Minister so his being granted a state funeral was automatic. In cases like that the family does not get to chose the can only refuse, but no one ever has, so how does tha compare to the state funeral of a sitting MP. I have no real issue with him being offered a state funeral; its the lying in state in Ottawa and Toronto that starts to set a dangerous precendent. I mean where do we draw the line now when an MP dies? Do we now pay for every MP and Senator to have the same option?
As for still being leader, he stepped down and reliquinshed his role as the head of the NDP party and the role of the Leader of the Official Oppositon. If he had recovered and wanted to resume his position, he would have needed to run again within his party to win the leadership. It is not an automatic appointment.
aaRDVARK said "1) those who feel that this sort of “Dianalation” is an unhealthy thing for our 2) those who feel that merely because he has died, does not mean that those who disagreed with him should suddenly stop doing so. "
1)Are you comparing a man of principles and action with a fluffy royal celebrity who stood for nothing?
2)And if you disagreed with him, that is fine, but keep your mouth closed for about a week in respect for decency.
1)Are you comparing a man of principles and action with a fluffy royal celebrity who stood for nothing?
2)And if you disagreed with him, that is fine, but keep your mouth closed for about a week in respect for decency.
The Toronto Sun has a column about "Saint Jack"
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/08/23/layton-lauding-becomes-surreal
It seems that he agrees with Christie Blatchford.
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/08/23/layton-lauding-becomes-surreal
It seems that he agrees with Christie Blatchford.
Um, state funerals are ALWAYS at the discretion of the family. That's how they work.
