Looks like some in Europe see the same problem there...Other Wanderer said:I've said this about 20x, so what you interpret as condescension is more like absolute frustration with a tribe of people who create a problem, wonder why it exists, and then get mad when it shows up on their doorstep.
Defining Problem - Dictatorship
The Middle East is fucked up precisely because the US is running the same colonial policy in the area that its predecessors, the British, ran too. The cornerstone of that policy was the idea that resource control, specifically oil, was a zero sum game, and one had to own the regimes to own the oil.
You continue to come back with this nonsense that the US isn't the only one funding them. TQM chimed in rubbish about the Soviets. The Soviets never had the regional control the US did, because, surprise, surprise, it is very hard to convert deeply religious people to hard-core Communists. Besides, as TQM and you never replied, the Russians have been a non-factor for close to a decade, and US support for dictators has not moved one iota.
Without US support, which is personal to the dictator, comprehensive to his armed forces, secret police, and instruments of repression, the support of other countries (France, Germany, Britain, whatever) is meaningless.
The US is absolutely responsible, to a great degree, to the largest real problem in the Middle East, the repression of ordinary citizens by brutal governments, done in the name of resource control.
Terrorism and Dictatorship
The central problem the West has identified, terrorism, as coming from the Middle East, is laughably easy to solve. Except we don't want to acknowledge the reality of solving it. The kind of violence we face is being launched by private armies. When the public sector fails to do something for decades, it isn't surprising that the private sector steps in ,and the public sector does nothing about it.
The public sector, the government, in Middle Eastern countries, has no legitimacy, popular support, etc. So when private warlords (Bin Laden, etc.) create their own armies ,there is no popular support to do anything about them - why bother, when they act as a counter-weight to brutal regimes that people are fed up with the US funding - why not fuck them as they fuck us, goes village idiot thinking over there.
If you want to solve terrorism, you allow legitimate governments to do what legitimate governments do - arrest, kill, finish off criminals, with massive public support needed in any country to catch a band of criminals. If there are criminals in government, why does anyone feel motivated to address the criminals in the streets?
The US has done nothing to signal that it will not militarily overthrow a democratic government if it doesn't like the results of that democracy. Hey, even a dictatorship like China found out you can't live in a dreamworld for too long when you have to feed people - you grow up and start to trade with neighbours to survive. You can't drink oil - it has to be sold somewhere, to someone, and the biggest buyers are here. Any legitimate government would see that, and even your favourite whipping boy here, Iran, dutifully sells its oil to Europeans who make its market.
The solution is pretty simple - stop backing thug regimes, stop overthrowing those who replace them with popular support, get rid of this xenophobic reaction to Islam, and just have the patience to recognize that even if we don't like a regime, it will eventually have to do business with us because there is no place else to go.
And then, you'll be able to wipe out private armies and many other problems as a condition of joining the real world.
http://www.xxx.org.uk/pdf/essay_youngs_arab_democracy.pdf
I think we agree on the issue just not where the blame lies. There were dictators violation human rights in the Arab world before we were a player there and they're doing the same thing now - I think you can solve for the constant.
OTB