Civil War: MAGA in Turmoil

[silentkisser]

Even the U.S. imports capital goods from abroad. The other inputs Canadian labor at 72 cents U.S. and the abundant raw materials per capita are the advantage. If you were really interested and open-minded, you could read one of the Canadian banks' good white papers on Canadian productivity and business investment.

I have often heard the Canadian economy compared to the Australian economy. The Australian economy is thousands of miles away from all the other major markets. China is the closest and a brutal competitor only interested in commodities. Canada's proximity to the U.S. market is an incredible geographic advantage.

I don't think the Canadian corporate tax rates are low considering both Federal and Provincial rates. Canadian government policy such as taxation and regulation is more comparable to the European framework. However, Europe struggles with its own growth and productivity. Canada is also not in Europe.

I totally understand the advantage of the lower Canadian dollar. But, saying the US imports good overseas is a bit disingenuous to this conversation. Their dollar has significantly more buying power internationally, so it isn't really a fair comparison. And, I totally agree, Canada and Australia are different. We have the world's largest economy about an 90 minutes away from Toronto, and 90% or the Canadian population is within 100km of the US border. The reality is, we got lazy. We expected the US to respect us and pay a fair price (maybe even slightly discounted) for our goods. Trump has ended that. Carney is busy negotiating REAL trade deals with Europe and Asia. The whole Alberta to pacific pipeline is so we avoid the US, and make more money on the international oil market (Canadian crude is discounted going into the US).

As for the tax rate, Ontario (both provincial and federal) is less than states like New York, California, Illinois, Michigan, etc. Sure, there are states that don't have corporate taxes, (Texas has a "franchise" tax for certain businesses, though I cannot remember exactly how that works). Canadian businesses also have more statutory holidays and provide more holiday time. They also don't have to have employer sponsored health care. Again, it is not an apples to apples comparison.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Read the report and the wiki article

So is your claim now that 70 US citizens were wrongly deported during Trump's first term, and were never let back into the US again??

Is that right??

 

[WyattEarp]

That's a lot of motivated reasoning, Wyatt.

I believe I acknowledged my bias.

 

[Valcazar]

You have difficulty proving he's fascist.

To you? Of course.
You're emotionally invested in saying he's not.
You also seem willing to use logic such as "If he's failed to do something, then it means he didn't try to do it".

So obviously I'm never going to be able to "prove" anything to you, since proof is irrelevant to your position.

 

[Valcazar]

Then thats simply a bug that needs to be fixed, but it doesnt show Trump is INTENTIONALLY deporting US citizens.
Also, if ICE doesnt know "how many enforcement actions against individuals are against U.S. citizens.", then how could the GAO report possible know it??

If actual US citizens are deported illegally, all they would have to do is call a lawyer, show that lawyer the proper documents, and file a lawsuit.
You might not even have to file a a lawsuit, you could probably just contact US immigration office and have the deportation reversed.

Again, you guys are making mountains out of molehills.
You're good at that though, I'll give you that much

Ahh, back to the flailing.
Look, no one expects you to not retreat into your emotional safe space.
That's fine.

I mean, it is bad, because the world would be better if people engaged with reality, but no one really expects more from you.

 

[silentkisser]

This is part of the logic of getting rid of birthright citizenship.
It looks bad to deport the parents and keep the kid.
If the kid doesn't have citizenship, you can deport the whole family without people complaining.

I cannot say I'm shocked that this Supreme Court is looking into overturning the 14th amendment...Now, I honestly don't think they'll overturn over 100 years of settled case law. But, couldn't that mean Barron Trump could be deported as well? I mean, He's a dual citizen of the US and Slovakia...

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

So is your claim now that 70 US citizens were wrongly deported during Trump's first term, and were never let back into the US again??
Is that right??

My claim is that the Trump administration has certainly and unlawfully deported US citizens, as seen from those articles and are also careless and hasty about it due to an underlying ethno-cultural agenda.
Which makes it doubly unlawful and unconstitutional. Not to mention fascist.

 

[Frankfooter]

Then thats simply a bug that needs to be fixed, but it doesnt show Trump is INTENTIONALLY deporting US citizens.
Also, if ICE doesnt know "how many enforcement actions against individuals are against U.S. citizens.", then how could the GAO report possible know it??

If actual US citizens are deported illegally, all they would have to do is call a lawyer, show that lawyer the proper documents, and file a lawsuit.
You might not even have to file a a lawsuit, you could probably just contact US immigration office and have the deportation reversed.

Again, you guys are making mountains out of molehills.
You're good at that though, I'll give you that much

The entire point of ICE not using due process means they can take phones and restrict all access to detainies.
Amnesty says they are now torturing detainees at aligator Alcatraz, by the way .

They are 'legally' allowed to grab anyone, dispute their papers and lock them away without phone or access to communication whether or not they are 'potentially' US citizens.

Revealed: ICE violates its own policy by holding people in secretive rooms for days or weeks

Guardian analysis finds ICE increasingly keeps people in holding rooms with little oversight, as some facilities see a 600% rise in detention length

www.theguardian.com

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

My claim is that the Trump administration has certainly and unlawfully deported US citizens, as seen from those articles and are also careless and hasty about it due to an underlying ethno-cultural agenda.
Which makes it doubly unlawful and unconstitutional. Not to mention fascist.

So 3 questions then:

1. Please name all 70 US citizens who were wrongly deported.
2. If you cannot name all 70, at least post some news articles or other links to some of these cases.
3. Of those 70 US citizens, how many of them returned to the US after they filed an appeal with US immigration??

 

[Valcazar]

I believe I acknowledged my bias.

Fair enough.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Ahh, back to the flailing.
Look, no one expects you to not retreat into your emotional safe space.
That's fine.

I mean, it is bad, because the world would be better if people engaged with reality, but no one really expects more from you.

You cant respond to my post, because the GAO article you posted is highly misleading.

Answer this please:

1. Please name all 70 US citizens who were wrongly deported.
2. If you cannot name all 70, at least post some news articles or other links to some of these cases.
3. Of those 70 US citizens, how many of them returned to the US after they filed an appeal with US immigration??

 

[Valcazar]

I cannot say I'm shocked that this Supreme Court is looking into overturning the 14th amendment...Now, I honestly don't think they'll overturn over 100 years of settled case law. But, couldn't that mean Barron Trump could be deported as well? I mean, He's a dual citizen of the US and Slovakia...

I don't think they will actually vote for a straight up "it doesn't matter now".
I suspect there will be some technical tomfoolery where they will say an executive order on its own isn't enough, but here is a way that maybe they might have to reconsider it.
The pattern for a while has been to deny on limited grounds and explain in the opinion how to get it through the next time.

But it wouldn't shock me if they did the whole "Trump can keep denying people citizenship until we decide" thing.

 

[WyattEarp]

I cannot say I'm shocked that this Supreme Court is looking into overturning the 14th amendment...Now, I honestly don't think they'll overturn over 100 years of settled case law. But, couldn't that mean Barron Trump could be deported as well? I mean, He's a dual citizen of the US and Slovakia...

It's possible you will simply get a clarification of the 14th amendment.
Of course, that will throw progressives into a literal tizzy.

You should read the decision. Oh, but there is no Supreme Court decision yet.

 

[Frankfooter]

You cant respond to my post, because the GAO article you posted is highly misleading.

Answer this please:

1. Please name all 70 US citizens who were wrongly deported.
2. If you cannot name all 70, at least post some news articles or other links to some of these cases.
3. Of those 70 US citizens, how many of them returned to the US after they filed an appeal with US immigration??

Propublica has a list of 170 american citizens held by ICE.
Someone else will have to show this to phil ,though.

More Than 170 U.S. Citizens Have Been Held by Immigration Agents. They’ve Been Kicked, Dragged and Detained for Days.

The government does not track how often immigration agents grab citizens. So ProPublica did. Our tally — almost certainly incomplete — includes people who were held for days without a lawyer. And nearly 20 children, two of whom have cancer.

www.propublica.org

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

If you're wrongfully deported, you might not even need a lawyer.
You can apply for that appeal at the Federal court:

Google Search

More here: https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/how-to-fight-wrongful-deportation/

 

[Valcazar]

So 3 questions then:

1. Please name all 70 US citizens who were wrongly deported.
2. If you cannot name all 70, at least post some news articles or other links to some of these cases.
3. Of those 70 US citizens, how many of them returned to the US after they filed an appeal with US immigration??

And the final stage, "please show things I know you can't find so that I have some way of coping with this".
Goalposts moved somewhere safe.
Emotional safe space achieved.

EDIT !!

You cant respond to my post, because the GAO article you posted is highly misleading.

I get a special version with an extra layer added on, "The GAO article you posted is highly misleading".

So right back to the "Fake News" binkie to sooth the troubled brow.

 

[Valcazar]

It's possible you will simply get a clarification of the 14th amendment.
Of course, that will throw progressives into a literal tizzy.

You should read the decision. Oh, but there is no Supreme Court decision yet.

Oh look, right away to "get a clarification of the 14th amendment".
The groundwork must already be in process if Wyatt is right on it like this.

 

[Valcazar]

Propublica has a list of 170 american citizens held by ICE.
Someone else will have to show this to phil ,though.

More Than 170 U.S. Citizens Have Been Held by Immigration Agents. They’ve Been Kicked, Dragged and Detained for Days.

The government does not track how often immigration agents grab citizens. So ProPublica did. Our tally — almost certainly incomplete — includes people who were held for days without a lawyer. And nearly 20 children, two of whom have cancer.

www.propublica.org

The 70 he wants won't be in there, though, since they date from Obama and Trump administrations.

That none of what we are talking about involves the current Trump administration, which has taken a much more aggressive tack than the one that produced these problems last time is something he's probably not ready to engage with.

 

[WyattEarp]

Oh look, right away to "get a clarification of the 14th amendment".
The groundwork must already be in process if Wyatt is right on it like this.

Yes, the Court speaks to us conservatives in a special place in the dark web.

I can't say anything more than that.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

And the final stage, "please show things I know you can't find so that I have some way of coping with this".

If you cant find them, then how do you know its true??
All I'm asking is at least post a few news articles of people who've been wrongfully deported, and were never able to return.
But so far you and Shaq have failed to do that. If this was a court case you'd lose

And according to AI illegal deportations have happened in previous administrations. Its unfair to single out Trump:

https://www.google.ca/search?q=duri...j6Hr6UIA&csuir=1&mtid=pns0ac_yHqKGptQPhMOD8Ac

It is important to note that cases of mistaken detention and deportation of citizens have occurred across multiple administrations due to administrative errors and systemic issues in immigration enforcement