Pickering Angels

Cuba - U.S. "Normalization"?

JohnLarue

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Glad to see you've dropped your moronic argument that the embargo is what stopped the spread of communism..
It defiantly contributed to halting the spread
Even a fool like you should recognize this
 

FAST

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That's what they said about Soviet Russia and then, one day, poof and it was gone. And the same will be in Cuba. Communism needs no embargo, arms race or sanctions. It only needs enough time to demonstrate to its victims how idiotic and vile it really is. It takes some peoples a bit longer, that's all.

YEP,...right on all counts.

FAST
 

JohnLarue

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Actually I was referring to the years the USA spent propping up a murderous thug (Batista), simply because that thug allowed American corporations to rape Cuba for all it was worth.. Only to then turn around and scream "NO FAIR" when the people took up arms and rebelled against him (and then took back what they rightfully felt was theirs)..

As long as you are in need of someone to blame and criticize (a trait common amongst the loonie left) why no go back to the Spanish rule of Cuba
They burned Indigenous Cuban resistance leaders at the stake
They imported slavery & generally raped the Island for all its worth


Fidel Castro isn't a saint by any stretch.. But the revolution wasn't a result of him "fooling" the majority of Cubans..
No it was not him fooling anyone. He took control with Machine guns , rocket launchers and grenades
Like all other commie rat bastards he ruled and it was his way or a bullet/prison

While the people of Cuba were not "fooled" they did not have any choice in the matter
 

AdamH

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As long as you are in need of someone to blame and criticize (a trait common amongst the loonie left) why no go back to the Spanish rule of Cuba
They burned Indigenous Cuban resistance leaders at the stake
They imported slavery & generally raped the Island for all its worth
... Because the Cuban Revolution wasn't against a Spanish backed dictator... The revolution was against a U.S. backed dictator...

He took control with Machine guns , rocket launchers and grenades... While the people of Cuba were not "fooled" they did not have any choice in the matter
You do understand that the Cuban revolution wasn't just a one man show, do you not? That they required an army of (volunteer) revolutionaries to fight an actual army of the (corrupt) government of the day? You're a bit of a moron, but you're not that stupid..

I'm certain there are many Cubans who do not like living under the rule of Fidel (just as there are many who do not like living under the rule of Stephen Harper). I am also certain that there were many more who did not like living under the rule of Batista (as evidenced by a successful guerrilla led revolution against an American backed government)..
 
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JohnLarue

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...
Because the Cuban Revolution wasn't against a Spanish backed dictator... The revolution was against a U.S. backed dictator...
How do you know how many Spanish were backing Batista?
While we all know the US backed Batista the blame for the 60 years of commie rule in Cuba does not fall completely at their feet
Just as long as you get to blame someone, I guess you are good


You do understand that the Cuban revolution wasn't just a one man show, do you not?
What a stupid question?
Why not ask if ISIS or Al Qaeda is a one man show
The similarities between all three is they convince young uneducated fools to do their dirty work

That they required an army of (volunteer) revolutionaries to fight an actual army of the (corrupt) government of the day?
ISIS & Al Qaeda are fighting what they believe is the army of the supposed corrupt govt of the day . Or so they have been told (Brain washed)

You're a bit of a moron, but you're not that stupid..
You are

I'm certain there are many Cubans who do not like living under the rule of Fidel (just as there are many who do not like living under the rule of Stephen Harper).
Nice try
Comparing life under the rule of Communist Fidel vs. life with our PM
For starters you get to bad mouth Harper to your heats content with no repercussions
Speaking out against Fidel puts you in jail or you just disappeared
Then you always get a chance to change our PM once every 4 years via free elections
No choice in Cuba

I am also certain that there were many more who did not like living under the rule of Batista (as evidenced by a successful guerrilla led revolution against an American backed government)
Pure conjecture on your part, only time will tell
Until then you are moron
 

AdamH

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How do you know how many Spanish were backing Batista?
Because of High School level History.. Batista (during WW2) had proposed a joint U.S. - Latin American assault on Spain to overthrow the Franco regime (Franco was the dictator of Spain from 1939 to 1975).. Idiot

What a stupid question?
The question was rhetorical.. Please use the world wide web to look up "rhetorical"..

ISIS & Al Qaeda are fighting what they believe is the army of the supposed corrupt govt of the day .
Not to get too far off topic with this nonsensical "point" of yours, but it actually can be argued that the government in Iraq is quite corrupt.. ISIS is pure evil, but it's not like their primary enemy (the current government in Iraq) are without their considerable sins..

Comparing life under the rule of Communist Fidel vs. life with our PM
You know you're insane right? To anybody with half a brain it's perfectly clear that I wasn't comparing life under one to life under the other.. I was simply stating the obvious.. That there will be always be opposition to any government of the day.
 
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JohnLarue

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Because of High School level History.. Batista (during WW2) had proposed a joint U.S. - Latin American assault on Spain to overthrow the Franco regime (Franco was the dictator of Spain from 1939 to 1975).. Idiot
So you can count one Spaniard who was not backing Batista
That does not make you an oracle

The question was rhetorical.. Please use the world wide web to look up "rhetorical"..
Please use the www to look up moron

Not to get too far off topic with this nonsensical "point" of yours, but it actually can be argued that the government in Iraq is quite corrupt.. ISIS is pure evil, but it's not like their primary enemy (the current government in Iraq) are without their considerable sins..
Just so long as you can justify the evils of Castro, ISIS & Al Qaeda
Then you are a happy man

Grow some balls and pick a side


You know you're insane right?
I do not think so, you made the initial comparison
Perhaps nobody told you may have to defend what you post
Smuck

To anybody with half a brain it's perfectly clear that I wasn't comparing life under one to life under the other..
Really?
I'm certain there are many Cubans who do not like living under the rule of Fidel (just as there are many who do not like living under the rule of Stephen Harper).
That appears very much to be a one to one comparison


I was simply stating the obvious..
No actually you stated
I'm certain there are many Cubans who do not like living under the rule of Fidel (just as there are many who do not like living under the rule of Stephen Harper).
Which is not obvious at all

That there will be always be opposition to any government of the day.
In Canada , the U.S. & other democracies the opposition gets to participate in law making, publicly criticise the current government and gets to campaign for the right to form a government
In Fidel's commie Cuba the opposition gets put in prison or just disappears.

For someone who is so self righteous , so offended by all injustices and is absolute about knowing what is best you should sure do not know who to champion
You would not have lasted 6 months in Cuba before your idealism would have landed you in a prison cell

you are too self righteous to appreciate what you have
 

FAST

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any chance we get more Cuban sps outta this deal?
Probably,...but communism doesn't breed performance,...!!!

So not a big deal I think.

FAST
 

AdamH

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So you can count one Spaniard who was not backing Batista
Spaniard? We were talking about which government propped up Batista, resulting in the Cuban revolution, you absolute dipstick.. You bizarrely felt that the Spanish rule over Cuba might have had something to do with the revolution.. I (accurately) pointed out that the revolution wasn't about anything that happened during Spanish rule (which ended in 1898... more than 50 years prior) but specifically against Batista (who was backed by the U.S. government).. You then demanded to know how I knew who was backing Batista (insinuating that the Spanish might still have had something to do with it along with the Yanks).. This was beyond pathetic as it's widely known (by anybody with half a brain) that Batista tried to wage war against the Spanish during WW2.. FAIL! You're just so pathetic.

Grow some balls and pick a side
Grow a brain and realize that there isn't a "side" in every fight worth joining.. Some fights are just stupid and should be left to the morons fighting them...

I do not think so, you made the initial comparison
I realize that your laughably pathetic mind needed me to make this argument so that you could "amaze" the terb world with your "wisdom".. But I didn't.. Too bad so sad.. Try using your brain next time..

In Fidel's commie Cuba the opposition gets put in prison or just disappears.
Which is nothing like the free and democratic world of the U.S. backed Batista governed Cuba? Get a brain you loser.. These arguments would be a lot more fun if you had just a basic understanding of world history (instead of a sack of nonsensical right wing rhetoric, conjured up to amaze and confuse the small brains of the world like yourself.).
 
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jcpro

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This argument reminds me of the time when I sat in a school and listened to the lecture on how bad the Czarist secret security used to be. Of course the lecturer omitted to mention that the Communist Cheka was a million times worse.
 

JohnLarue

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Spaniard? We were talking about which government propped up Batista, resulting in the Cuban revolution, you absolute dipstick.. You bizarrely felt that the Spanish rule over Cuba might have had something to do with the revolution.. I (accurately) pointed out that the revolution wasn't about anything that happened during Spanish rule (which ended in 1898... more than 50 years prior) but specifically against Batista (who was backed by the U.S. government).. You then demanded to know how I knew who was backing Batista (insinuating that the Spanish might still have had something to do with it along with the Yanks).. This was beyond pathetic as it's widely known (by anybody with half a brain) that Batista tried to wage war against the Spanish during WW2.. FAIL! You're just so pathetic.
Keep patting yourself on the back you self righteous knob


Grow a brain and realize that there isn't a "side" in every fight worth joining.. Some fights are just stupid and should be left to the morons fighting them...
So is pointing out faults to paint the bad guys in a better light
Still finding excuses for ISIS?
I realize that your laughably pathetic mind needed me to make this argument so that you could "amaze" the terb world with your "wisdom".. But I didn't.. Too bad so sad.. Try using your brain next time..
Its black & white
You made a ridiculous comparison & now you are trying to wiggle out of your stupidity,
Sort of like when you asked "why an incremental tax on property sales should not be implemented to fund a special needs program ?'
You did not think that one through either


Which is nothing like the free and democratic world of the U.S. backed Batista governed Cuba? Get a brain you loser.. These arguments would be a lot more fun if you had just a basic understanding of world history (instead of a sack of nonsensical right wing rhetoric, conjured up to amaze and confuse the small brains of the world like yourself.).
Cuban life under Batista vs. Cuban life under commie Fidel
You once again are absolute in your uninformed (& bad ) judgement
You are assuming it was worse under Batista just because they had a revolution
That assumes Fidel did not take way more steps to ensure there was never a success revolution that threaten him
I,e, you do not know the relative body count for either
You assume that Batista was just as ruthless as Fidel,
Perhaps if was he would have stayed in power

As before you do not think things through

It is entertaining toying with your tiny little mind though
 

AdamH

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So is pointing out faults to paint the bad guys in a better light
You brought up ISIS, not me. You brought them up in an effort to lump the Castro regime in with one of the worst terrorist organizations this world has ever known. You then made the easily disputable claim that the soldiers of this terrorist organization were "fooled" into believing they were fighting against a corrupt government.. I was simply pointing out that the government that they are currently fighting against IS corrupt.. You pathetic boob.

Its black & white
That you read my explanation that there are always people who despise thier governments and (like the complete fucking moron you are) decided it would be easier to argue my point if my point had actually been that there are legitimate comparisons between Harper and Castro??? Yeah, you're right.. It is black and white.. You're a moron and there's no disputing it.. Black and White...

You are assuming it was worse under Batista just because they had a revolution
Actually I'm assuming it was worse under Batista because (again) of world history.. I used the revolution as a simplified explanation that might appeal to your tiny brain.. Batista seized power when he realized he was running in an election which polls indicated he would lose (ousting a democratically elected president). He did this with the blessing of the United States government. He then developed heavy (and well documented) ties with Organized Crime (and often used these connections to repress the opposition). Under him crime exploded. Unemployment was rampant. It's estimated that by the time he was ousted as dictator as many as 92% of Cubans were illiterate.. Contrast that to Cubans today who have Universal Health Care.. A U.S. Congressional report admitted that health care is “superior in Cuba and rivals that of numerous developed countries”. They sport a literacy rate of 99.8 percent.. By 1990, unemployment had been virtually wiped out.. 80% of Cubans own their own homes...

The difference between you and I (besides the fact that you are clearly brainwashed by right-wing rhetoric) is that you feel that the revolution happened for no reason whatsoever.. You seem to think that every thing was hunky dory under Batista. I'm more than prepared to acknowledge that Castro's time as leader has been littered with human rights abuses, and negative impacts to Cubans in general.. But to sit on your high horse and declare that the revolution had no basis for taking place is beyond asinine.. Batista was corrupt, and life under him was awful. Maybe it isn't much better now (though there are some well-informed people who might disagree), but it sure as fuck wasn't better then..

Bottom line.. You're an idiot without a clue as to what you're talking about.
 
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fuji

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US policy was effectively terrorist policy in Cuba both before and after Castro. So saying he stole property or that his regime committed atrocity kind of misses the point.

Neither side had ever had any interest in benefiting the Cuban people. A third alternative is needed.

The US interests that lost assets in Cuba that they originally got through graft and extortion do not deserve to get them back, and the Cuban people deserve better than Castro.
 

AdamH

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A third alternative is needed. The US interests that lost assets in Cuba that they originally got through graft and extortion do not deserve to get them back, and the Cuban people deserve better than Castro.
I don't disagree with this statement.
 

JohnLarue

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You brought up ISIS, not me. You brought them up in an effort to lump the Castro regime in with one of the worst terrorist organizations this world has ever known.
To those Castro screwed over it is
If I mentioned ISIS so what, you started making excuses for them, justifying their actions
ISIS is pure evil, but it's not like their primary enemy (the current government in Iraq) are without their considerable sins..

You then made the easily disputable claim that the soldiers of this terrorist organization were "fooled" into believing they were fighting against a corrupt government..
So you believe all the nutjobs killing in the name of Allah, like the two in France or the nutjob in Ottawa and a whole army in Iraq are rational well educated people who chose this path without any coercing or influence from their spiritual leaders?

Come on AdamH !
Stupid and Naïve is no way to go through life. Its time you smartened up




I was simply pointing out that the government that they are currently fighting against IS corrupt.. You pathetic boob.
Surely you do not advocate armed rebellion against if one feels it is corrupt, do you?

Some would call the parliamentary system in Canada corrupt regardless of who is in power. There are a lot of backroom deals we do not hear about
And down in the states it is the lobby groups and the money they throw around Washington that really makes the laws . Some might call that corrupt

That you read my explanation that there are always people who despise thier governments and (like the complete fucking moron you are) decided it would be easier to argue my point if my point had actually been that there are legitimate comparisons between Harper and Castro??? Yeah, you're right.. It is black and white.. You're a moron and there's no disputing it.. Black and White...
Again you made a one to one comparison
I'm certain there are many Cubans who do not like living under the rule of Fidel (just as there are many who do not like living under the rule of Stephen Harper).
Actually I'm assuming it was worse under Batista because (again) of world history..
And that is you mistake
You assume

Cuban life under Bastia was no picnic, he was crook a dictator and likely a mass murder.
Fidel instituted communism, deprived the Cuban people of human rights and economic opportunities for 50 years, made thousands disappear & prevented them from leaving.
Who was worse ?
That is for the Cubans to determine, A right they have not had under either
Yet your self righteous know it all attitude lets you decide Fidel was the less of two evils



I used the revolution as a simplified explanation that might appeal to your tiny brain.. Batista seized power when he realized he was running in an election which polls indicated he would lose (ousting a democratically elected president). He did this with the blessing of the United States government. He then developed heavy (and well documented) ties with Organized Crime (and often used these connections to repress the opposition). Under him crime exploded. Unemployment was rampant. It's estimated that by the time he was ousted as dictator as many as 92% of Cubans were illiterate..
Like I said it was no picnic

Contrast that to Cubans today who have Universal Health Care.. A U.S. Congressional report admitted that health care is “superior in Cuba and rivals that of numerous developed countries”. They sport a literacy rate of 99.8 percent..
Granted Cubans are well educated and their Health Care system is very good given the resources they have to work with
But do not kid yourself. They lack pencils, paper and the basic educational tools. Do not expect any innovation from the Cuban education system
Health Care? a doctor makes the roughly same as an average worker maybe a little more, so those that chose medicine do so out of interest, No incentive for the best & the brightest

Imagine what they could have accomplished with the shackles of communism?

By 1990, unemployment had been virtually wiped out.. 80% of Cubans own their own homes...
not so fast
Zero unemployment means jack shit if your country creates no economic value
They work , not because they have an economic incentive to work, rather they are told they must work (that is evil)

Similarly owning a house means shit if its a dump and you can not sell it for more than five pigs and a donkey
The difference between you and I (besides the fact that you are clearly brainwashed by right-wing rhetoric) is that you feel that the revolution happened for no reason whatsoever..
I never said that
Please state the post number

You seem to think that every thing was hunky dory under Batista
.
I never said that
Please state the post number
I'm more than prepared to acknowledge that Castro's time as leader has been littered with human rights abuses, and negative impacts to Cubans in general.. But to sit on your high horse and declare that the revolution had no basis for taking place is beyond asinine.. Batista was corrupt, and life under him was awful. Maybe it isn't much better now (though there are some well-informed people who might disagree), but it sure as fuck wasn't better then..
Not for you to declare from your high horse

Bottom line.. You're an idiot without a clue as to what you're talking about.
What's the matter ?
Cant take the heat when you are called out for defending a commie?
 

JohnLarue

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Jan 19, 2005
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US policy was effectively terrorist policy in Cuba both before and after Castro. So saying he stole property or that his regime committed atrocity kind of misses the point.

Neither side had ever had any interest in benefiting the Cuban people. A third alternative is needed.

The US interests that lost assets in Cuba that they originally got through graft and extortion do not deserve to get them back, and the Cuban people deserve better than Castro.
Who would decide what is graft & extortion ?
You?

There are some families here in Canada who made a hell of lot of money sell booze to Al Capone during probation
The Kennedy family in the States owes their fortune to bootlegging booze
Are you going to say they need their money taken from them because you do not like how they got it?
It was 80 years ago , only an extra couple of decades more than the Cuban theft of assets
 
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