CUPE Strike

[Brookstone]

So we are going to have another strike. Wow, why doesnt that surprise me!
Ever since the first time the teachers went on strike, i was still in hs at the time, it seems like every year, either teachers or ttc, goes on strike for better wages,plans etc. When is it going to be enough?
I dont know about anyone else, but I for one am sick of hearing about these guys going on strike.
It is widely known that Canada already doesnt have the best educational systems for our kids compared to some countries in Europe, Asia. So now are we going to say that they dont have the best educational system because the teachers want more benefits, pension plans etc? That is just ridiculous.
These guys need to realize that they are already getting more than a whole lot of other ppl out there. Not everyone can go on strike, not everyone has a pension plan provided by their company. Not everyone can get paid 20bucks/hour to sit in a ticket booth.

Lot of ppl dont like their wage, job etc., but do you see everyone complaining and crying about that and threaten to go on strike? No!! If that did happen, think what will happen to our society/economy.

I say no more contract talks, strikes or anything related to it for teachers/ttc for the next 3 or 5 years. I am just sick of hearing about it every so often.

There are some really good points below. I like the 1 about the legal/illegal sign.
http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20060221-009/page.asp

 

[zanner69]

well I'm going to throw my garbage on the street!!!!!

thinking of queen and bay!!!!!

 

[basketcase]

Time to get informed. This has nothing to do with teachers. The support workers and other public servants are going on strike cause they don't want their pension f*cked with. If I had paid in for 30 years, I'd be damned pissed too.

 

[Brookstone]

Time to get informed. This has nothing to do with teachers. The support workers and other public servants are going on strike cause they don't want their pension f*cked with. If I had paid in for 30 years, I'd be damned pissed too.

Yes you should get informed.
First, i was just using teacher/ttc as example since we hear about them every so often.
Second. Yes, this strike has nothing to do with teachers, but it does affect the students since 82 toronto school will be closing. As well as some ppl that work within it,ie.daycare,special needs,school bus drivers. Right?
So does it not affect the students after all?

 

[A-ROD]

Does anyone think we will really miss any of these people for a day or two?

When are unions going to realize that they are a minority. There was a time and place for unions in the 50's and 60's, but there day has come and gone.

We can thank unions for all of the benefits, workplace health and safety etc that we ALL enjoy today... but...

They have to learn the US against THEM attitude does'nt work anymore. They should be finding ways to work with management to improve productivity etc so that we can compete in a trully global marketplace.

 

[Brookstone]

Well, I think ppl mite start missing them once zanner69 starts packing queen/bay with his garbages. Instead of red lights, you'd have to stop for garbage and proceed green with caution. LOL

 

[Keebler Elf]

Lot of ppl dont like their wage, job etc., but do you see everyone complaining and crying about that and threaten to go on strike? No!!

Exactly. And that's why they have poor wages and shitty jobs.

The only people a strike will really affect (other than the strikers themselves and their families) are parents with kids in schools. If the strike drags on (which it won't), then garbage piling up could also be a problem. But a CUPE strike doesn't have the power that something like a TTC strike would.

 

[Dawgger]

I still can't understand this whole thing.What was wrong with the pension that the government had to bring down legislation a change it?
Should changes not be negotiated between the employer and the union?
I don't see why the general public should be forced to suffer because the government has decided to change the way a pension plan operates.If the changes were beneficial to the employees I am sure the union would not be threatening strike action.
Why does the government insist on putting these changes in?
How will it benefit the general Ontario public?( A strike won't be a benefit to anyone)

 

[Esco!]

Does this mean my garbage wont get picked up?????

 

[Dawgger]

Does this mean my garbage wont get picked up?????

.If a CUPE member is suppose to pick your garbage up, it probably won't get picked up.Good thing it is winter!

 

[booboobear]

Time to get informed. This has nothing to do with teachers. The support workers and other public servants are going on strike cause they don't want their pension f*cked with. If I had paid in for 30 years, I'd be damned pissed too.

They get good pensions as it is . This strike is illegal and they should all be fired. The time to negotiate is when your contract is up.

 

[Egor]

This strike is illegal and they should all be fired. The time to negotiate is when your contract is up.

Illegal means contrary to the law. Can someone quote any local, provincial, or federal law that says these people are prohibited from striking?

 

[Shallow Throat]

Here is the issue:

"Union members are upset over changes that would allow police and firefighters to retire early, but not other workers. They also complain that the bill would make it difficult for members to negotiate better pension benefits."

That's the trouble with many unions (ie. a bargaining advantage for them), they have all these unrelated positions in the same union. You normally wouldn't give a shit about 95% of that group going on strike, it's the critical 5% of the workers that screw us by being on strike.

It's too bad these CUPE members can't be identified when they are not picketing. I'd say that if one walks into a store, bank, etc, they should be denied service too !

 

[TheNiteHwk]

I say we all take our garbage and throw it on Miller's doorstep. I know he has nothing to do with this situation... but he said he wanted to sweep Toronto clean and has the broom hanging on his wall... so let's give him a chance to use it. <LOL>

As for the topic at hand...

I don't see anything wrong with giving police, firefighters and emergency workers an option to retire early. I doubt many would including their fellow union members working in other classifications. Correct me if I'm wrong... I think the reason why the other CUPE workers want to walk out is because they don't want to pay for this very expensive option that is being given to police etc. Can't say I blame them for that. A strike is not the answer though. Maybe a work to rule and an advertising campaign to explain the issues and where they stand and why, would be more prudent.

 

[dirkd101]

Does anyone think we will really miss any of these people for a day or two?

When are unions going to realize that they are a minority. There was a time and place for unions in the 50's and 60's, but there day has come and gone.

We can thank unions for all of the benefits, workplace health and safety etc that we ALL enjoy today... but...

They have to learn the US against THEM attitude does'nt work anymore. They should be finding ways to work with management to improve productivity etc so that we can compete in a trully global marketplace.

They want to shut down schools because that will affect all parents (who in turn contact their respective MPP) That is a place that they will be missed.
As for a time and place, well that is not true. The union is there for bargaining of course but also dispute resolution. Many management types also have their benefits tied to what the unions have.
I agree whole heartedly that they get rid of the US against THEM mentality. They go on strike because in negotiations, when they don't get their own way, they walk. What a great negotiatung policy that is.

 

[WhaWhaWha]

They should be finding ways to work with management to improve productivity etc so that we can compete in a trully global marketplace.

In an ideal world I would agree. But the global marletplace is supported by less than 1/3 the North American minimum wage. We really need to find ways to preserve our economic prosperity without trying to capitalize on and compete with the markets in underpriveleged countries.

We also need to stop coddling the public sector. Essential services should not be represented by unions. But private trades and manufacturing are a different story. The ethics of the third world are already seeping back in to North America. I'm seeing a return to the hobnailed boot of oppression in the workplace. Very reminiscent of sdtories about North America's pre union days.

• 30 month probation periods, (when you factor in the legal entitlement to use temp services for two years and then place people on six month probation when they switch over to full time).
• Unfair wage docking,
• Using layoffs to circumvent accumulation of seniority,
• racial and sexual discrimination
• sexual harassment
• unfair employment standard policies including no leave for medical appointments or religious high holidays during probation periods, and
• oppressive dress and attendance codes that are often excused or enforced arbitrarily as a means to enforce other kinds of conduct normally protected by legislation. For example I have worked a lot of jobs and have seen seen people dismissed for speaking a foreign language on the trade floor.

In todays workplace it isnt enough if you show up and do your job. Its a constant battle of will just to preserve everything you think you're working for. CUPE workers deserve better than to have to worry about being cut off at the knees after a decade or more of loyal service. Even if their jobs are not as demanding as others who earn less. They came by their opportunities fairly and likely paid their dues to keep their place.

 

[Egor]

I don't see anything wrong with giving police, firefighters and emergency workers an option to retire early.

Fair enough. Police, firefighters, and paramedics are already allowed to retire early with FULL pension benefits under current OMERS rules. They have a normal retirement age of 60, whereas all other OMERS members have a normal retirement age of 65.

The new OMERS bill will allow police, firefighters, and paremedics to negotiate an even lower retirement age, and better pension benefits for themselves. Meanwhile, the new OMERS bill makes it harder for other OMERS members to obtain improved pension benefits, with a new requirement that any improvements will need a 2/3 majority vote by the sponsor's corporation.

What are the implications of all this? For one thing, keep in mind that OMERS is not just for unionized employees. Managers, supervisors, etc. working for any municipality in Ont. are also part of the OMERS umbrella. The other thing is that the employer (i.e. the City of Toronto) must match dollar for dollar the pension contributions for each employee. So if an employee contributes say, $2500 per year, the employer must also contribute $2500 for the year. Where does this money come from? City property taxes, for example.

The issue for regular OMERS members is that they are unlikely to see any improvements to pension benefits when a 2/3 majority vote is required. On the other hand, OMERS management can increase their pension contribution rates at will. Thus, when the police and firefighters negotiate improvements to their pension benefits, there is the possibility that OMERS will raise the contribution rates for other members, meaning the rest of them will be paying for cops and firefighters to retire early with enhanced pension benefits.

The issue for municipalities is that they will end up having to increase their matching pension contribution rate as well. Really, how much more money would, say, the City of Toronto have to pump into the plan to see their 7,000 police officers retiring 5 to 10 years earlier than they do now, with full or even greater pension benefits? Most likely the city would have to raise YOUR property taxes to cover the difference.

Hey - regardless of your opinions on the strike, this new OMERS bill is flawed. If passed, it will almost certainly mean some sort of tax increase to cover the additional funds the municipalities will have to kick into the plan to cover earlier retirement by police and firefighters. Not to mention that the OMERS executive are notorious for wasting and squandering the money they are pulling in now.

Early retirement for police and firefighters? Sure, so long as taxpayers know they are going to be covering the extra cost.

 

[booboobear]

Hey - regardless of your opinions on the strike, this new OMERS bill is flawed. If passed, it will almost certainly mean some sort of tax increase to cover the additional funds the municipalities will have to kick into the plan to cover earlier retirement by police and firefighters. Not to mention that the OMERS executive are notorious for wasting and squandering the money they are pulling in now.

Early retirement for police and firefighters? Sure, so long as taxpayers know they are going to be covering the extra cost.

I see a bit of what you are saying but hte fact is the taxpayers are paying already for all the civil servants who don't pull their weight. Maybe they could pay for the early pensions by cutting out the dead wood just like private companies have to do.

 

[booboobear]

Illegal means contrary to the law. Can someone quote any local, provincial, or federal law that says these people are prohibited from striking?

Their contract is not up and even they admit it's a wildcat strike and as such is illegal .

 

[Egor]

I see a bit of what you are saying but hte fact is the taxpayers are paying already for all the civil servants who don't pull their weight.

By no means do CUPE members (or most other people working for municipalities, for that matter), merit the title of "civil servant." David Dingwall is a civil servant. Federal Government workers making 6 figure salaries are civil servants. Cupe members mop floors and clean toilets for $10-$12 bucks an hour. They don't have expense accounts - they buy their own lunches.

Another problem with the OMERS bill (bill 206) is that it discriminates against women. We see that cops and firefighters (overwhelmingly male) can negotiate increases to their pension benefits, while the rest of the workers (cleaners, cafeteria workers, day care workers, old-age home workers - mostly female), will NOT be able to negotiate improved pension benefits. How does this promote gender equality? I would argue that women deserve the right to negotiate and obtain improved pensions, same as the men.

Unless of course you think that those women working at day-cares, cleaning school bathrooms, and helping old people go to the toilet are just so much "dead weight" who don't deserve to make their $12 bucks an hour? Hey, maybe they can all become SP's instead, huh?