CUPE Strike

TheNiteHwk

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Aug 22, 2001
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Egor said:
... Thus, when the police and firefighters negotiate improvements to their pension benefits, there is the possibility that OMERS will raise the contribution rates for other members, meaning the rest of them will be paying for cops and firefighters to retire early with enhanced pension benefits.

Early retirement for police and firefighters? Sure, so long as taxpayers know they are going to be covering the extra cost.
That's what I thought. Under those condtions then I personally would not support improved benfits for them. Why should other members who are not getting same have to pay extra?

I still think though that the union should not go on strike but should communicate this more clearly to the public without going on strike. So far all the news reports I have heard only mention this in passing. They are leaving out this important info. The union should take out full page ads in all the major papers and say what their postion is and why.
 

Brookstone

Active member
Sep 11, 2004
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booboobear said:
Their contract is not up and even they admit it's a wildcat strike and as such is illegal .
I agree with this viewer who wrote in to pulse24. Lets see how many ppl will be holding sighs saying "on illegal strike".;)


“The last time they held a legal strike, they made it a point to let the public know by holding up signs saying "on legal strike".

"Using the same logic, would they now proudly hold up their signs saying "on illegal strike" instead?

“I seriously wonder how so many minds working together still do not understand the difference between the two words, because if they did, then they would also understand the meaning of a negotiated contract.”
R. Khan
 

Marco

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Sep 9, 2001
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Has nothing to do with wages. Its thanks to Premiere McGuinty and the Liberals. They promised the firefighters and policemen better pension benefits. So they want that to come out of other pensioners pockets. So if you are the average worker you will not only see your pension benefits go down but you have to also contribute twice as much so your fireman and policeman can retire at 55 or earlier.
 

dj1470

Banned
Apr 7, 2005
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milhouse said:
Yes you should get informed.
First, i was just using teacher/ttc as example since we hear about them every so often.
Second. Yes, this strike has nothing to do with teachers, but it does affect the students since 82 toronto school will be closing. As well as some ppl that work within it,ie.daycare,special needs,school bus drivers. Right?
So does it not affect the students after all?
School's are closing because of safety issues. Period. Without snowplowing or custodial service serious issues of safety arise for the children. Also, if a heating system in a school broke down and no one was there to fix it. . . well things might get a little cold in the classrooms. You are right it has nothing to do with teachers but teachers can't shovel snow, or clean the gym, or fix the furnace as well as teach a class all in one failed swoop. Yes it affects students and parents who have to find alternative care for who knows how long but that inconvienence is nothing compared to the unforseen disasters that could happen in schools without CUPE workers on the job.
 

emvee

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Nov 8, 2004
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Pu'u Ola'i Beach
booboobear said:
They get good pensions as it is . This strike is illegal and they should all be fired. The time to negotiate is when your contract is up.
Remember Ronald Reagan and the Air Traffic Controlers strike in the 80s?? I wasn't much of a Reagan but I was when he laid down the law to PATCO.

Somehow I fugure the wanker politicinas involved here don't have the guts to do anything similar.
 

Brookstone

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Sep 11, 2004
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Well, speaking of teachers earlier, ont college/uni teachers might go on strike on march 7 if agreement cannot be reached. Hoping theres no strike.:(
It aint the hs teachers this time but the coll/uni. whos next in line to strike?
 

booboobear

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Aug 20, 2003
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Egor said:
By no means do CUPE members (or most other people working for municipalities, for that matter), merit the title of "civil servant." David Dingwall is a civil servant. Federal Government workers making 6 figure salaries are civil servants. Cupe members mop floors and clean toilets for $10-$12 bucks an hour. They don't have expense accounts - they buy their own lunches.

Another problem with the OMERS bill (bill 206) is that it discriminates against women.

Cry me a river , I AM SO SICK OF CUPE members , teachers etc and all civil servants who get paid from our taxes complaining. They buy their own lunch , boo hoo so do I and if I don't like my benefits I can leave the company , I can't go on strike and inconvenience thousands of people.
Sadly a lot of people are underpaid women and men, women and mmen who work at Wal MART MAKE LESS THAN $ 12 per hr but can't go on strike . If you are a cupe member and you make $ 10 per hr and are paying union dues then what good is a union to you. Anyway civil servants should not be allowed to strike .
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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booboobear said:
.... If you are a cupe member and you make $ 10 per hr and are paying union dues then what good is a union to you....
Damn right!!! I say they strike to get paid a decent wage!
 

frankcastle

Well-known member
Feb 4, 2003
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Not sure if this was mentioned but in addition to the issue of police and firefighters being able to retire 5 years earlier than other CUPE members they also got a raise in their pension. If you were paying into the pension and not one of those people (FF or police) you'd be upset too.

As for people upset with jobs that are paid through taxpayers money don't forget those people also pay taxes too (same as everyone else).
 

booboobear

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frankcastle said:
Not sure if this was mentioned but in addition to the issue of police and firefighters being able to retire 5 years earlier than other CUPE members they also got a raise in their pension. If you were paying into the pension and not one of those people (FF or police) you'd be upset too.

As for people upset with jobs that are paid through taxpayers money don't forget those people also pay taxes too (same as everyone else).


A lot of people are unhappy with their benefits I can't retire as early as firefighters , maybe I should go on strike. Yes they pay taxes also but
that doesn't give them the right to stage an illegal strike.
 

Brookstone

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Sep 11, 2004
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booboobear said:
A lot of people are unhappy with their benefits I can't retire as early as firefighters , maybe I should go on strike. Yes they pay taxes also but
that doesn't give them the right to stage an illegal strike.
I agree booboobear, that was my main point really. Not everyone is getting what they would like to get in terms of wage, benefits etc. If everyone goes on illegal strike, it would be pretty crazy. How many strikes do you think we'd get? One day a strike here, and next day another strike there.
 

frankcastle

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Feb 4, 2003
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booboobear said:
A lot of people are unhappy with their benefits I can't retire as early as firefighters , maybe I should go on strike. Yes they pay taxes also but
that doesn't give them the right to stage an illegal strike.
You're missing the point. IF you were paying into the same pension fund but the guy next to you not only got to collect earlier but collect more than before (and more than you) wouldn't you be upset?

I understand that you feel its wrong to strike when you're unhappy but if that happened to you would you just sit and take it or do something about it?

If you feel its fair then okay I guess. I'm not part of CUPE but I can understand why the person would be upset.

I think it's the principle the contributors to the pension fund want their fair share.
 

Esco!

Banned
Nov 10, 2004
12,603
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Toront Ho
milhouse said:
So we are going to have another strike.
Coca Cola
I'd Like To Teach the World To Sing (In Perfect Harmony)

Id like to build the world a home
And furnish it with love
Grow apple trees and honey bees and snow-white turtle doves

I'd like to teach the world to sing
In perfect harmony
I'd like to hold it in my arms and keep it company

I'd like to see the world for once
All standing hand in hand
And hear them echo through the hills "Ah, peace throughout the land"

(That's the song I hear)
I'd like to teach the world to sing (that the world sings today)
In perfect harmony

I'd like to teach the world to sing
In perfect harmony

Id like to build the world a home
And furnish it with love
Grow apple trees and honey bees and snow-white turtle doves
 

Egor

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Feb 22, 2004
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That's right, frankcastle. Apparently booboobear and millhouse don't understand. Let me try to lay it out, briefly and simply.

For starters, lets talk about the meaning of the term "civil servant." A civil servant works in the civil service. The civil service means the various professional branches of government administration. CUPE members are not involved in government administration. They are much farther down the food chain, meeting the public daily and providing services directly; picking up trash, for example, or looking after children at a public day care. They are NOT civil servants.

On to the OMERS bill. Simply, the OMERS bill proposes that workers in tough, dangerous occupations (police and firefighers, serving the public directly, NOT civil servants), should be able to retire earlier with better pension benefits than everybody else. Nice plan, but who's going to pay for it? Now, the pension benefits come from the worker's contributions, as well as profits the pension fund makes from investing the contributions.

Since all the workers throw their money into the same pot, more or less, CUPE wants assurances from the gov't (the 'employer'), that OMERS won't use CUPE members' money to pay for extra pensions for the police. The gov't can't give any assurances, and in fact the new law looks like it might allow for one group of workers to be EXPLOITED by the pension fund.

As if the gov't has some kind of RIGHT to EXPLOIT their employees, or something. What do b-bear and m-house think? Should employers be allowed to exploit and take advantage of the the people working for them? Would you allow your employer to exploit you? CUPE tried to discuss their concerns with the gov't, but the gov't wouldn't listen or pay any attention. With no other option available, CUPE finally said,"we will go on strike if the gov't can't assure us that we won't be exploited by the new gov't law."

To focus on the fact the strike might be illegal is moot; after all, for the gov't to pass a law that allows their employees to be exploited is, broadly speaking, illegal as well. So we see that the gov't was not willing to listen to employee's concerns about being exploited untill they were threatened with a strike.

As for people working at Wal-mart, yes they earn sub-par wages. Wal-mart workers have been forced to work overtime against their will, they work long hours without a break, and some aren't even allowed to go to the bathroom when the need to. As for benefits, people on welfare in Ontario have better dental and medical coverage than Wal-mart workers do. I'll bet they wish they DID have a union. But the last time a Wal-mart store voted for a union, the store got shut down. By the sounds of it, b-bear, you think this is the right way to go. Hey - the clothes at Wal-mart are likely made in sweatshops in China by workers who earn $30-$40 per month. Think about that the next time you shop there.

Finally, if it takes the threat of a massive stike, illegal or not, before the gov't is willing to listen to worker's concerns about being exploited, then that's a pretty good argument in favour of unions, I'd say.
 

Dawgger

Active member
Jan 3, 2005
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Egor said:
That's right, frankcastle. Apparently booboobear and millhouse don't understand. Let me try to lay it out, briefly and simply.

For starters, lets talk about the meaning of the term "civil servant." A civil servant works in the civil service. The civil service means the various professional branches of government administration. CUPE members are not involved in government administration. They are much farther down the food chain, meeting the public daily and providing services directly; picking up trash, for example, or looking after children at a public day care. They are NOT civil servants.

On to the OMERS bill. Simply, the OMERS bill proposes that workers in tough, dangerous occupations (police and firefighers, serving the public directly, NOT civil servants), should be able to retire earlier with better pension benefits than everybody else. Nice plan, but who's going to pay for it? Now, the pension benefits come from the worker's contributions, as well as profits the pension fund makes from investing the contributions.

Since all the workers throw their money into the same pot, more or less, CUPE wants assurances from the gov't (the 'employer'), that OMERS won't use CUPE members' money to pay for extra pensions for the police. The gov't can't give any assurances, and in fact the new law looks like it might allow for one group of workers to be EXPLOITED by the pension fund.

As if the gov't has some kind of RIGHT to EXPLOIT their employees, or something. What do b-bear and m-house think? Should employers be allowed to exploit and take advantage of the the people working for them? Would you allow your employer to exploit you? CUPE tried to discuss their concerns with the gov't, but the gov't wouldn't listen or pay any attention. With no other option available, CUPE finally said,"we will go on strike if the gov't can't assure us that we won't be exploited by the new gov't law."

To focus on the fact the strike might be illegal is moot; after all, for the gov't to pass a law that allows their employees to be exploited is, broadly speaking, illegal as well. So we see that the gov't was not willing to listen to employee's concerns about being exploited untill they were threatened with a strike.

As for people working at Wal-mart, yes they earn sub-par wages. Wal-mart workers have been forced to work overtime against their will, they work long hours without a break, and some aren't even allowed to go to the bathroom when the need to. As for benefits, people on welfare in Ontario have better dental and medical coverage than Wal-mart workers do. I'll bet they wish they DID have a union. But the last time a Wal-mart store voted for a union, the store got shut down. By the sounds of it, b-bear, you think this is the right way to go. Hey - the clothes at Wal-mart are likely made in sweatshops in China by workers who earn $30-$40 per month. Think about that the next time you shop there.

Finally, if it takes the threat of a massive stike, illegal or not, before the gov't is willing to listen to worker's concerns about being exploited, then that's a pretty good argument in favour of unions, I'd say.
Egor thank you, I think I finally understand the issue.I don't understand why the provincial government thinks it is necessary to bring in this legislation.All it will do is increase our municipal taxes and not benefit the average person in the province.
 

frankcastle

Well-known member
Feb 4, 2003
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You guys should check out the documentary "Wal-mart the High Cost of Low Prices." You'll be outraged at all the things they've done including costing the US goverment hundreds of millions of US tax dollars.
 

rama putri

Banned
Sep 6, 2004
2,992
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Wal-Mart mythology aside, unions are one reason Canada is suffering as an industrialized nation. We rely on our natural resources exports to cover our lazy, union, run industries. The sooner we get rid of the unions, the better off we would be. Don't get me going about our pathetic teachers.
 

frankcastle

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Feb 4, 2003
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Watch the Wal mart documentary.

I'm referring to their business practices such as

a) not providing medical benefits at an affordable cost so that their employees cost medicaid over 100 million dollars

b) purposely making people work overtime but not paying for it (essentially people feared losing their jobs)

c) taking advantage of money from local governments in the range of six figures for a store to be built in their town. Then they move the store outside city limits to avoid sharing revenues with the town.

d) their use of cheap foreign labour.

e) damage to regional environment through improper storage of toxic chemicals stores on slats outside of the store and allowed to drain away.

f) squashing attempts at the formation of unions.


Alot of the testimony comes from former or current employees.

As for whether unions are needed. Well that depends. If one could ensure that people doing the same job are treated and paid the same then no unions are not necessary. But let's be honest most employers would cut corners at the workers expense if they could get away with it. Walmart is a good example of this.

Getting rid of unions is a pipe dream it'll never happen.
 

Papi Chulo

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Jan 30, 2006
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Why hasn't the city of Toronto followed the lead of other municipalites and outsourced the collection of garbage?? This would be a huge savings for taxpayers.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts