Daniel Dale on what happened near the mayor’s home

[fuji]

Exactly how is playing a Peeping Tom into Ford's kitchen window performing a legitimate investigation??

Ford said he needed to buy public parkland--something unprecedented and potentially open to conflict of interest-- because his fence was inadequate. He wrote that in his application to buy the land. You don't see a public interest in checking out how much privacy and security the existing fence affords?

Really?!

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Ford said he needed to buy public parkland--something unprecedented and potentially open to conflict of interest-- because his fence was inadequate. He wrote that in his application to buy the land. You don't see a public interest in checking out how much privacy and security the existing fence affords?

Really?!

You didnt answer my question.

I didnt ask if the investigation itself was inappropriate, I asked what peeping into the man's kitchen window had to do with the investigation

 

[Anynym]

By the reporter's OWN admission, without even being challenged:
1) He says the map he got was confusing and he had no idea where the "public" land was, but
2) He claims that he was on public land at all times.
If he doesn't know where the public land was, how could he be so sure?

And:
1) He says he dropped his cellphone and recorder as soon as Ford said to, and
2) He says he threw down his cellphone and recorder after repeated requests from Ford to do so. AND
3) He says he let go of his cellphone and recorder when Ford charged at him.
Try to figure out, from the reporter's own story, whether he had the cellphone and recorder in his hands when he raised them "immediately". The reporter isn't even consistent on this simple point.

But ... he claims that he was on the other side of the fence from Ford when Ford charged (read the story carefully).

This reporter has no credibility.

And that's before reports of the reporter's head, visibly bobbing up and down over the fence on the Mayor's security camera footage.

 

[Butler1000]

My guess is that nobody is lying. My guess is that Dale was trying to figure out how well you could see over Ford's fence, and was jumping and otherwise trying to assess that. He probably wasn't standing on cinder blocks, but the neighbour saw what he was doing and thought that he was. In any case, Dale's behavior there would be perfectly legal, and fully in line with the story he was sent to write.

So to an outside observer they can tell the difference between a person trying to see over a fence for nefarious purposes........and someone trying to see if Other people can do it........wow. Nice. I'll remember that defence next time I'm casing a joint!

 

[fuji]

So to an outside observer they can tell the difference between a person trying to see over a fence for nefarious purposes........and someone trying to see if Other people can do it........wow. Nice. I'll remember that defence next time I'm casing a joint!

A reasonable person would not conclude that any random person they encounter on the street or in a park has a nefarious purpose. Moreover, even if a nefarious purpose is suspected that would not necessarily imply any threat to your safety.

There aren't even straws for you to grasp at here.

 

[fuji]

You didnt answer my question.

I didnt ask if the investigation itself was inappropriate, I asked what peeping into the man's kitchen window had to do with the investigation

Well I haven't seen any claim that he was doing that. What I suspect he was doing, what he ought to have been doing, is trying to judge how much privacy the fence affords. That would mean trying to judge whether you can see over it easily or not.

 

[fuji]

By the reporter's OWN admission, without even being challenged:
1) He says the map he got was confusing and he had no idea where the "public" land was, but
2) He claims that he was on public land at all times.
If he doesn't know where the public land was, how could he be so sure?

Really it's just YOUR ignorance that needs to be cleared up here, so let me help you. ALL of the land outside the fence is public land, and he was outside the fence. Ford's house is surrounded by parkland on two sides. The reporter was in the park on one side, but it is actually the park on the other side that Ford is trying to buy. The ONLY way he could have been on private property is if he had climbed over the fence and been on the inside of it. No-one has claimed he did that. Ford just claims he was looking OVER the fence--which clearly puts him outside of it.

Several newspapers ran maps of the property which make all this very clear, so perhaps you should go look at one and educate yourself a little.

But ... he claims that he was on the other side of the fence from Ford when Ford charged (read the story carefully).

Again, your inability to read and comprehend information does not call the story into question, it only calls YOU into question. Ford came out from his house and around the fence to confront Dale in the park behind Ford's house. That's according to FORD. Dale's version is entirely consistent with that. So we have two people both saying the same thing. You are the only one who is confused.

 

[slowpoke]

Exactly how is playing a Peeping Tom into Ford's kitchen window performing a legitimate investigation??

It's quite a stretch to assume that the reporter was trying to see anything inside Ford's house. Why would he?

This is a map from the Globe and Mail showing where the reporter was located when he was confronted by the mayor. He was quite a distance from the mayor's fence.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...mayor-fords-home/article2421905/?from=2423822

If you believe the part about the reporter standing on stacked cinder blocks, you then have to seriously ask yourself why he would want to do that. The reporter's story was about the adjacent land and the reasons the mayor wanted to buy it. A picture, taken from a reasonable distance, showing the land in the foreground with the fence and the back of the mayor's home in the background, would be a legitimate and reasonable part of that story. But Dale definitely wouldn't need or want to show any details about what was going on inside the house or the yard. So why would the reporter climb onto stacked cinder blocks when that would give him an elevated and artificially enhanced view of the house and yard? That might make sense if you were stalking a yummy sunbather but it clearly makes no sense in this case. And if he took a picture from that elevated view, The Star wouldn't be able to use it. Why would they?

The location where Dale was confronted by the mayor is consistent with him simply checking the land with the fence etc in the background, well away from anyone's property line. He's too far away to to present a threat to Ford's safety or privacy. If a reporter wanted to capture inappropriate details about what the Fords were up to inside their home or yard, he'd probably need to go there at night with a telephoto lens.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

I still think Dale went to Ford's home to rile him up and see if he could get a response out of him. Why else do it at around 7:30 PM, thats the perfect time, right after dinner and exactly when people dont wanna be bothered.

Having said that I have no problem with the media doing investigations into our politicians, thats their job and thats whats sometimes necessary in a democratic society. I just wish they were more professional about it, and next time dont send some wimpy drama queen (emphasis on "queen")

 

[groggy]

Exactly how is playing a Peeping Tom into Ford's kitchen window performing a legitimate investigation??

If he was a peeping Tom, then why didn't Ford release the security tapes and charge him?
Knowing Ford's rep, you'd have to assume he would if he could.
Ford's been caught lying about this kind of thing before, his word is no good.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Ford's been caught lying about this kind of thing before, his word is no good

And do you believe every word the Toronto Star says (or writes)??

 

[fuji]

I still think Dale went to Ford's home to rile him up and see if he could get a response out of him. Why else do it at around 7:30 PM, thats the perfect time, right after dinner and exactly when people dont wanna be bothered.

That's just huge, partisan, unsupported conjecture on your part that has no basis in anything but your own wild speculation.

The story broke that day. He would have spent the afternoon following up on various leads. We know for example from the redial Ford did on his phone that he had called members of the committee that reviews park land purchases a little earlier. By evening he would be checking facts and making last minute changes. Most of the research for the story would have been about the law, process, the application itself, and having done all that he went to look at the property itself.

In my job I am sometimes contacted by reporters and i can tell you it's very normal for them to be working at that time, finishing off their stories for the morning paper.

 

[slowpoke]

I still think Dale went to Ford's home to rile him up and see if he could get a response out of him. Why else do it at around 7:30 PM, thats the perfect time, right after dinner and exactly when people dont wanna be bothered.

Having said that I have no problem with the media doing investigations into our politicians, thats their job and thats whats sometimes necessary in a democratic society. I just wish they were more professional about it, and next time dont send some wimpy drama queen (emphasis on "queen")

Ford is EXTREMELY lucky that Dale wimped out and ran away. This is just a guess on my part but I think most reporters would have had a charged and functioning camera or camera phone with them and it would have been second nature for them to stay put and film Ford's bellowing charge and threatening fists. Almost all point and shoot cameras and cellphones produce decent video nowadays and that kind of footage would have fucked Ford quite nicely on the morning news. But if Dale had stood his ground while filming, I think that would have further enraged Ford and we'd all be looking at a bruised and damaged Toronto Star reporter right now. That assault would have finished Ford off right then and there, with a visit to the slammer and a heavy lawsuit to follow. Dale's submissive reaction and hasty retreat were probably the main reasons Ford managed to get his rage under control before he went over the edge. My sense is that Ford was saved by a wimpy guy who also just happened to have a dead battery. If this had happened on a different day, Ford would have been well and truly fucked.

BTW, I don't think Dale's sexuality, whatever it may be, is part of this story. I think Dale is a wimp but let's lose the "queen" thing OK?

 

[fuji]

I think there is a good reason why Ford is refusing to let the media see his security video footage. I'm guessing it does not look good for him. If Dale were doing anything wrong on that tape you would think Ford would have released it.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

let's lose the "queen" thing OK?

No

 

[slowpoke]

I think there is a good reason why Ford is refusing to let the media see his security video footage. I'm guessing it does not look good for him. If Dale were doing anything wrong on that tape you would think Ford would have released it.

It is unthinkable that Ford would NOT go public with his security footage if it showed a Toronto Star reporter doing something wrong. If nobody gets charged and no footage is released, it is safe to conclude that Ford has blown this out of all proportion and has nothing but his usual bluster and bullshit.

 

[Cornelius]

And do you believe every word the Toronto Star says (or writes)??

Exactly. If it was a Globe and Mail or Sun reporter, I would tend to believe the reporter was legitimately telling the truth.

 

[fuji]

Exactly. If it was a Globe and Mail or Sun reporter, I would tend to believe the reporter was legitimately telling the truth.

That says more about you than it says about the Star. You may dislike their editorial position but your comment here reveals you to be an ill informed and biased person.

The Sun is the only paper in Toronto regularly caught printing lies. It has in fact already printed lies in this case. (It printed that Dale was on Ford's property, something even Ford doesn't claim.)

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

I think Cornelius was being sarcastic.

I really dont trust any media anymore, they all blow stories out of proportion, or they make up complete lies

 

[fuji]

I think Cornelius was being sarcastic.

I really dont trust any media anymore, they all blow stories out of proportion, or they make up complete lies

They certainly blow stories out of proportion, and they are sometimes very selective in what they run, or cover only a particular angle, but other than the Sun they don't seem to make stuff up.

It is interesting to read the same story in the National Post and the Star to see the different perspectives. They will usually agree on the facts but you come away very different impressions, and they may choose to highlight quite different aspects.