^ this
Or also, once Hamas is eliminated or it capitulates, Gaza can be placed under transitional joint management by Egypt, Saudi, UAE and Israel, and perhaps later joining Egypt.
France To Recognize The Palestinian State. Vive la France
- Thread starter Kusa
- Start date
Or also, once Hamas is eliminated or it capitulates, Gaza can be placed under transitional joint management by Egypt, Saudi, UAE and Israel, and perhaps later joining Egypt.
Hmm, maybe you are right.
The one state solution makes more sense. So then just give all Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank full human rights, including the vote. Let them vote to bring back the Palestinian refugees and try to work Israel back into a full democracy again.
good plan
Nope.
You either hand back all of Palestine and back the two state solution or you back the one state solution with full democracy.
Wiping out Palestine is not an option.
You are obviously delusional self righteous activist.
And pro-Palestine ilk you cite as well as the current government are anti-west.
And pro-Palestine ilk you cite as well as the current government are anti-west.
By 'ilk', do you mean anyone who doesn't think like this?
Again, reminds me of fourth reich fantasies.
Yes, it is hard, but you also seem to enjoy pointing this out almost as much as you liked to question what I think the solution will be.
Just as much as you like to not answer those same questions or state your views on this issue clearly.
Seems like this will be the very last chance for the two state solution but that it will fail.
If it fails it means the campaign becomes the one state solution with equal rights, the South Africa post apartheid solution.
Do you agree?
Ahh, a fault of the English language.
You meant "only Palestinians disarming" and I thought you meant "only Palestinians disarming". (or, I guess, "only Palestinians disarming" , which shows you how ambiguous this can be even when trying to mark emphasis.)
I thought you meant that their disarmament was the only condition, and it obviously is not.
You were concerned that the disarmament would be only imposed on the Palestinians and not the Israelis.
Got it.
I was responding to the wrong thing.
As I said, there are lots of people who view Canada's announcement as a "surrender to Israel" announcement and nothing Palestinians should celebrate at all.
Last edited:
Ending the genocide needs to happen right now, certainly.
But ending it in a way that legitimizes Israel's actions will only lead to another round of genocide eventually.
How ridiculous is it that the country that signed the Balfour and took partition to the UN has yet to recognize the state of Palestine and also has similar conditions?
Is a State the “Reward” for Genocide? - FPIF
Voices around the world are saying: it’s now or never for a Palestinian state.
fpif.org
The question is how and to what extent.
Some level of right of return is in the Geneva convention and the Declaration of Human Rights.
I don't know if it has ever been tested on a large-scale level spanning generations.
And, all too often, facts on the ground trump abstract principles.
I think any solution should include some level of the right of return.
I don't know what level that actually comes out to in reality.
Only if you think there is a statute of limitations on universal human rights, like the Right of Return.
Otherwise, the only question really is what to do with the descendants of those refugees who have been forced to live as stateless refugees their entire life.
That should come down to the question of just restitution.
I point it out because you seem almost pathologically committed to not ever admitting it.
About anything.
Everything is always just a simple obvious solution that should just magically happen and will because Goodness will Triumph or something.
Many people have considered the two-state solution dead for over a decade.
Both sides who are actually involved abandoned it and only people on the outside seem to still want it.
You see France saying it is recognizing Palestine just to keep the two-state solution alive.
You see Canada saying "here are a bunch of conditions, but they all require we agree the two-state solution is what will happen".
But I can't remember the last time I saw serious support for a two-state solution coming out of Israel or Palestine (I know the PA support it, but lots of people think of them as barely relevant at this point.)
Why do you almost always attach random twitter posts that have nothing to do with the conversation, btw?
You ask if I agree about your view of the one-state solution and then post something completely disconnected.
And no, I don't agree.
The one-state solution you describe will only be one of the proposed one-state solutions.
There are also still going to be people pushing for a two-state solution long after almost everyone else has given up, and I don't think the three-state solution will totally evaporate for a while yet. (As seen on this very thread.)
If I recall, that was one of your major objections to many of the early ceasefire proposals.
Not all refugees are stateless.
And I don't think there is a single country that believes in an unlimited Right of Return.
There are many disputes about what that means, as you know.
Perfect example.
What is just restitution and is that limited to "you come back and get all your old property and land"?
The fight to end South African apartheid took decades of protests to institute BDS, with the US being the last holdout.
Up until the end it was 'magical thinking'.
I see France, the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Germany trying to find a way to save face and call out Israel without serious intent. Because yes, I think the two state solution has been dead for a long time.
Context and news updates that shouldn't require comment. Losing J Street is related to losing Canada, the UK, France et al but the wave is getting big enough we shouldn't have to start posts about each one. The last backers of zionism making a final call for the two state solution that we know won't be accepted is just laying the ground for the real battle for equal rights.
The other ones will be forms of apartheid. Different rules/laws based on race. After the two state solution is killed by Israel the federal and confederation models will be suggested, but they would always be played out as forms of apartheid.
We are already at the point where a large portion of people see the two state solution as past the delay for 'facts on the ground' and now as complicity in Israeli rule through genocide and apartheid.
No, my earlier objections were to 'temporary' ceasefires where Hamas gives up the only leverage they had (hostages) for a short pause before Israel resumed the genocide.
Please don't try to start an argument about whether Palestinian refugees still count as refugees, that's been covered by the UN and UNRWA.
The multiple UN resolutions calling for Israel to honour the right of return offer the option of 'just restitution' as an alternative.
But you're going to see what 5 million people want as restitution for 75 years of living as refugees and the theft of their homes and homeland.
You think that's going to be easier or cheaper?
What do you think Israel should pay for stealing their land and homes along with 75 years of forced living as stateless refugees?
Its going to make Truth and Reconciliation look cheap, I expect.
No one in that fight thought it wouldn't take decades.
Or rather, those who did were stripped of those illusions quickly.
As long as it is the preferred position of powerful external forces, though, it is going to stay alive in discussions about the issue.
They are not context and rarely relevant news updates.
Which will be another extremely long fight.
But hang on, are you saying you are opposed to any federation or confederation as a solution?
And yet you keep celebrating all these countries proclaiming they recognize a separate Palestine, reinforcing the two-state idea.
Which this is very similar to.
* Disband Hamas
* Ban them from power
* Release all the hostages
* Disarm completely
-- No demands on Israel.
