Good point so, using MrBig's convoluted yet strangely simplistic logic, the unionized employees of private waste companies must be being paid a fair wage. This leads to the obvious conclusion that the extra 20% that the City workers are being paid is grossly unfair.wantoplay said:
Garbage Strike - Give Me a Break
- Thread starter Thunderballs
- Start date
Maybe just LaRue
You guys sure sound like anti-tax nuts but maybe you are making a death bed conversion under my withering assault on all of you faulty assumptions. CUPE is not overpaid and would not be overpaid even with 3% and their sick days. You have been sucked in on a right wing agenda that sees a recession as a time to go after both unions and the public sector. You are being used by larger forces that don't give a shit about you.blackrock13 said:If that's the case, it just points out that the reason for going after the strikers is not anti union, it's against the stance and demands that this union has.
I don't think out taxes are too high and it's clear I'm not alone. Thanks MB for proving it. I just don't like spending it badly and the local union strike is just that.
Sorry, time to give the shovel back to MB
My stance hasn't changes one bit. I'm not anti union, I'm not against taxes, and I'm not against help the needy. Doesn't sound right wing to me. It must seem different through your orange tinted glasses. No one has ever comment on any strings strangely attached to my body.Mrbig1949 said:You guys sure sound like anti-tax nuts but maybe you are making a death bed conversion under my withering assault on all of you faulty assumptions. CUPE is not overpaid and would not be overpaid even with 3% and their sick days. You have been sucked in on a right wing agenda that sees a recession as a time to go after both unions and the public sector. You are being used by larger forces that don't give a shit about you.
Were you that squeaky voiced nosey parker that called me on the phone last week and asked me all those union/strike/NDP centric questions? I should have recognized the patter.
I'm still waiting for the answer to my question as to where else have you lived/worked/visited outside this country.
You get better value for your money when two or more unions compete against one another, versus when one union has a monopoly. In general, monopolies are bad.wantoplay said:The melon heads in the media keep pointing to contracting out, but they either do not realize, or do not care that the private waste companies are unionized too.
When CUPE is put into a position of having to compete, CUPE returns more competitive bids for work than when it has a monopoly. To wit, when Etobicoke contracted out its garbage collection CUPE submitted a bid for the work that was less than what CUPE had previously been charging the city.
A perfect example of that is the postal service. Had any strikes from those boys lately? They realized that if they when off again, they'd loose. The general public has a number options now and the postal union knows it.fuji said:You get better value for your money when two or more unions compete against one another, versus when one union has a monopoly. In general, monopolies are bad.
When CUPE is put into a position of having to compete, CUPE returns more competitive bids for work than when it has a monopoly. To wit, when Etobicoke contracted out its garbage collection CUPE submitted a bid for the work that was less than what CUPE had previously been charging the city.
Mrbig1949 said:You guys sure sound like anti-tax nuts but maybe you are making a death bed conversion under my withering assault on all of you faulty assumptions. CUPE is not overpaid and would not be overpaid even with 3% and their sick days. You have been sucked in on a right wing agenda that sees a recession as a time to go after both unions and the public sector. You are being used by larger forces that don't give a shit about you.
Lets see here
I am an anti-tax nut because
a) I just do not like paying taxes
b) I do not feel that I am getting good value for my tax dollars
c) do not wish for taxes to go up to support CUPEs greed & your unsustainable agenda
Those are three completely different answers & you do not seem to differentiate between the any of them.
I do not think anyone likes paying taxes, but like most I have to accept its a part of life.
What I reject is is the lack of value for those taxes dollars
Now unless i am mistaken most people think $28 / hr is more than a fair wage for garbage collectors. It is excessive relative to what they bring or haul away from the table
Most people also think that 28 bankable sick days / year is excessive
Its one thing to pay too much for for unskilled labor, its another to pay too much for unskilled labor not to work
What I reject the most is the completely misguided assumption that they are entitled to this excess & they have the right to tax-payers money & the tax-payer gets absolutely no say in the matter
Worse still is the blackmail & the unions complete dis-regard for anyone but themselves.
Stating CUPE is underpaid just show how poorly you have misread the situation & the publics perception of the matter. Believe me you are 100% absolutely wrong here. (Again)
There is no right wing agenda here.
Unless a person is brain dead or brain washed (Oh, I figured it out, your the union Brain-washer), they want
a) value for any good or service they purchase
b) not to be taken for granted when they purchase those goods & services.
Recession or extreme growth period the time to put an end to waste is NOW
Nobody is singling out the unions because we are in a recession.
This contract came due for re-negotiation at this time & the public has become aware of the excess cost of doing business with CUPE
Perhaps the recession has made more people focus on the costs (taxes are on of them) as their own revenue has decreased.
Nobody is using me, pal.Mrbig1949 said:You guys sure sound like anti-tax nuts but maybe you are making a death bed conversion under my withering assault on all of you faulty assumptions. CUPE is not overpaid and would not be overpaid even with 3% and their sick days. You have been sucked in on a right wing agenda that sees a recession as a time to go after both unions and the public sector. You are being used by larger forces that don't give a shit about you.
But 180K plus 50K banked sick days sound like someone was definitely being used (and abused).
If you soaked the tax-payer for that amount, you have a great deal of nerve telling them they now need to pony up more so the garbage collectors can catch up to you.
Do you think $180K a year & bankable sick days would be an appropriate wage to pay the 30,000 collectors?
Or do you consider yourself as providing more value & therefore should be paid more?
I know you will not answer either question as a straightforward honest answer will paint you as either completely unrealistic or a hypocrite
I have been all over the world
All over Europe and Asia, worked in Spain wtf difference does that make?blackrock13 said:My stance hasn't changes one bit. I'm not anti union, I'm not against taxes, and I'm not against help the needy. Doesn't sound right wing to me. It must seem different through your orange tinted glasses. No one has ever comment on any strings strangely attached to my body.
Were you that squeaky voiced nosey parker that called me on the phone last week and asked me all those union/strike/NDP centric questions? I should have recognized the patter.
I'm still waiting for the answer to my question as to where else have you lived/worked/visited outside this country.
No problem
As you can see I was highly paid because of my high level of education and my proven communication skills. Unfortunately I cannot send you my CV but I do not oppose $50 000 garbage men at all if that is what you mean. Of course some people should be paid more than others but there is a limit on that.
JohnLarue said:Nobody is using me, pal.
But 180K plus 50K banked sick days sound like someone was definitely being used (and abused).
If you soaked the tax-payer for that amount, you have a great deal of nerve telling them they now need to pony up more so the garbage collectors can catch up to you.
Do you think $180K a year & bankable sick days would be an appropriate wage to pay the 30,000 collectors?
Or do you consider yourself as providing more value & therefore should be paid more?
I know you will not answer either question as a straightforward honest answer will paint you as either completely unrealistic or a hypocrite
As you can see I was highly paid because of my high level of education and my proven communication skills. Unfortunately I cannot send you my CV but I do not oppose $50 000 garbage men at all if that is what you mean. Of course some people should be paid more than others but there is a limit on that.
Well, if you think garbage workers are worth $50Gs, then you may have a skewed opinion of your own worth.Mrbig1949 said:As you can see I was highly paid because of my high level of education and my proven communication skills. Unfortunately I cannot send you my CV but I do not oppose $50 000 garbage men at all if that is what you mean. Of course some people should be paid more than others but there is a limit on that.
We finally got an answer to question someone asked you. that's it.
Mrbig1949 said:As you can see I was highly paid because of my high level of education and my proven communication skills. Unfortunately I cannot send you my CV but I do not oppose $50 000 garbage men at all if that is what you mean. Of course some people should be paid more than others but there is a limit on that.
And you are so enlightened you get to determine that limit?
And your good as long as it does not apply to you specifically.
Sounds pretty right wing to me when your compensation is in question
What happened to:
[I]Originally Posted by Mrbig1949
Old union motto, "What we wish for ourselves, we wish for all people"[/I]
That does not really jive with "Of course some people should be paid more than others but there is a limit on that"
Well, now that we have seen both sides of your double talk , which should we believe?
I will tell you that I agree their should be limits on what some people should be paid & we hit that a long time ago with your lot.
Proven communications skills my ass.
You cant even keep your bullshit straight
Its more you like keep feeding them bullshit until you wear them down.
As for your high level of education, well, good for you, but remedial economics must have been the elective you decided not to take as your policies would be the economic disaster that would make this recession look like a minor hiccup
This is where the society's economic problems begin. Ask (insert rich dude here) what they think about paying a garbage collector $50,000/year to start. They wouldn't care; that number is 'beneath' them. Ask the person bending over backwards at multiple jobs about $50,000 to start to collect rash and I'm sure you'll see a lot of eye-rolling. I believe that it is those people whose opinion must be given importance.blackrock13 said:Well, if you think garbage workers are worth $50Gs, then you may have a skewed opinion of your own worth.
We finally got an answer to question someone asked you. that's it.
What we wish for ourselves we wish for all people
Good pay, a chance at a decent life, problem?JohnLarue said:And you are so enlightened you get to determine that limit?
And your good as long as it does not apply to you specifically.
Sounds pretty right wing to me when your compensation is in question
What happened to:
[I]Originally Posted by Mrbig1949
Old union motto, "What we wish for ourselves, we wish for all people"[/I]
That does not really jive with "Of course some people should be paid more than others but there is a limit on that"
Well, now that we have seen both sides of your double talk , which should we believe?
I will tell you that I agree their should be limits on what some people should be paid & we hit that a long time ago with your lot.
Proven communications skills my ass.
You cant even keep your bullshit straight
Its more you like keep feeding them bullshit until you wear them down.
As for your high level of education, well, good for you, but remedial economics must have been the elective you decided not to take as your policies would be the economic disaster that would make this recession look like a minor hiccup
If very many people felt like you Larue
I'm sure society would reflect your values if there were many who reflect you views but there are not. The polling of large numbers of Canadians and our elections prove that few agree with you and the number is getting smaller every year both here and in the USA. That must be frustrating for you. A poll of 10 people on TERB proves nothing. Broad based polling across Canada and the USA demonstrates that people want more spending NOT lower taxes, as I mentioned in a previous post, lower taxes usually comes in about #10 on the priorities list well behind spending on health, education, environment, roads, job creation, and many other areas of social spending.
JohnLarue said:And you are so enlightened you get to determine that limit?
And your good as long as it does not apply to you specifically.
Sounds pretty right wing to me when your compensation is in question
What happened to:
[I]Originally Posted by Mrbig1949
Old union motto, "What we wish for ourselves, we wish for all people"[/I]
That does not really jive with "Of course some people should be paid more than others but there is a limit on that"
Well, now that we have seen both sides of your double talk , which should we believe?
I will tell you that I agree their should be limits on what some people should be paid & we hit that a long time ago with your lot.
Proven communications skills my ass.
You cant even keep your bullshit straight
Its more you like keep feeding them bullshit until you wear them down.
As for your high level of education, well, good for you, but remedial economics must have been the elective you decided not to take as your policies would be the economic disaster that would make this recession look like a minor hiccup
I'm sure society would reflect your values if there were many who reflect you views but there are not. The polling of large numbers of Canadians and our elections prove that few agree with you and the number is getting smaller every year both here and in the USA. That must be frustrating for you. A poll of 10 people on TERB proves nothing. Broad based polling across Canada and the USA demonstrates that people want more spending NOT lower taxes, as I mentioned in a previous post, lower taxes usually comes in about #10 on the priorities list well behind spending on health, education, environment, roads, job creation, and many other areas of social spending.
Producing enough value to justify what you are paid. You can't just take someone flipping burgers and pay them $80k and call it a middle class job. The productivity to justify the wage has to be there or it's fake.Toke said:Define earning it.
Kinda like 'him with the most toys wins,' only different.Mrbig1949 said:Good pay, a chance at a decent life, problem?
I'm not trying to knock down the 'difficulty' of one's job. I'm arguing about how big a piece of the pie they deserve for doing it. Why should they be compensated more than someone else? I'm not arguing who should be paid more, but should they be paid more than a teacher; a doctor; a grocery store clerk; a construction worker; an electrician; or any other career you would like to add. I'm sure everyone will jump in with their picks, but I would argue as to how all jobs are connected and that there is no overall benefit for some to be compensated much more than others.wantoplay said:So how many on here think driving a truck is an easy thing? And add to that all of the wannabe asshole drivers that make their lives more difficult??
