Garbage Strike - Give Me a Break

[blackrock13]

Rant and hide? Some people are actually busy you know. You are not the fucking teacher here pal and you don't set the test, I don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

Three examples of where the private sector running free put the economy in the ditch? The late 19th century so called guilded age of robber barons result depression, late 1920s capital runs wild unregulated, result Great Depression, 2008-2009, deregulated privatized capital runs wild again with derivatives, hedge funds, bundled high risk mortgages result our present circumstances. Almost a scientific certainty, too much freedom for free enterprise ends up in deep recession/depression. Need another history lesson teach? Any time.

Welcome back.

I thought maybe you'd just found a lot less heat ranting and raving about Asian SPs, but 40 posts later you decided to join the fracas.

The robber barons. That would take quite a dissertation to counter that one, but some might say that that hasn't stop. beet sugar, almonds and the like, only gone to sleep on occasion, but we'll just say that the Spanish American War had less to do the sinking of the USS Maine, which sank on it's own and more to do with the American Fruit and Tobacco Company; another lie started to enter a war by the USA.

Like I said, the Great Depression and the present situation were giveaways.
Your observations seem to be arguments for regulation and balance, not the socio-economic benefits of union in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Mrbig1949]

Both

Welcome back.

I thought maybe you'd just found a lot less heat ranting and raving about Asian SPs, but 40 posts later you decided to join the fracas.

The robber barons. That would take quite a dissertation to counter that one, but some might say that that hasn't stop. beet sugar, almonds and the like, only gone to sleep on occasion, but we'll just say that the Spanish American War had less to do the sinking of the USS Maine, which sank on it's own and more to do with the American Fruit and Tobacco Company; another lie started to enter a war by the USA.

Like I said, the Great Depression and the present situation were giveaways.
Your observations seem to be arguments for regulation and balance, not the socio-economic benefits of union in the grand scheme of things.

Unions are a MAJOR element in levelling the playing field between capital and ordinary people except our friend 2 up who can make it on his own. That is why there is a major and I mean major shit fight going on in the USA over card check certification.

 

[blackrock13]

Like I've said often, I'm not against unions, just this one, here, today. It will be interesting to hear the results of the vote in Windsor tonight. Any exit polls?

Can't say I know a whole lot about card check certification, so can't comment. Anyone?

two weeks ago, you would have said that unions were 'THE' major element leveling the playing field.

 

[Mrbig1949]

Probably still say that but....

Like I've said often, I'm not against unions, just this one, here, today. It will be interesting to hear the results of the vote in Windsor tonight. Any exit polls?

Can't say I know a whole lot about card check certification, so can't comment. Anyone?

two weeks ago, you would have said that unions were 'THE' major element leveling the playing field.

Progressive taxation, medicare, public education, pensions, EI, welfare, public child care, corporate taxes (what little they pay), minimum wages, coops all of these things help in their own way but unions are the #1 self defence mechanism of the working class. Yes that is true.

 

[JohnLarue]

Unions are a MAJOR element in levelling the playing field between capital and ordinary people except our friend 2 up who can make it on his own. That is why there is a major and I mean major shit fight going on in the USA over card check certification.

So your saying it is important for CUPE to level the playing field between the city of Toronto's source of capital (which would be hard working ordinary people ie tax payers) and trash collectors?

The contentious issue is the banked sick days (its what the strike is about). The city's source of capital (ie tax-payers) do not receive anywhere near the number of sick days as trash collectors, let alone the ability to bank them.

So in order to level the playing field, the unions need to either
a) arrange for the source of capital (tax payers) to get 28 bankable sick days
or
b) have the trash guys give theirs up

Since option a) is not with the unions power, that leaves option b)

Face it, slogans like "leveling the playing field" do not apply equally to all situations.
Make sure you understand who you are trying to level, before trotting out such a foolish statement

 

[blackrock13]

Progressive taxation, medicare, public education, pensions, EI, welfare, public child care, corporate taxes (what little they pay), minimum wages, coops all of these things help in their own way but unions are the #1 self defence mechanism of the working class. Yes that is true.

Some might say any or all of those came about in spite of, not because of, unions; especially when less than 30% of the workforce in Canada is unionized.

 

[Mrbig1949]

So your saying it is important for CUPE to level the playing field between the city of Toronto's source of capital (which would be hard working ordinary people ie tax payers) and trash collectors?

The contentious issue is the banked sick days (its what the strike is about). The city's source of capital (ie tax-payers) do not receive anywhere near the number of sick days as trash collectors, let alone the ability to bank them.

So in order to level the playing field, the unions need to either
a) arrange for the source of capital (tax payers) to get 28 bankable sick days
or
b) have the trash guys give theirs up

Since option a) is not with the unions power, that leaves option b)

Face it, slogans like "leveling the playing field" do not apply equally to all situations.
Make sure you understand who you are trying to level, before trotting out such a foolish statement

There will always be this union or that union that is ahead on this clause or that clause. Even Fuji gets that because they have made it their bargaining priority so it is a DEFERRED WAGE. Everybody in the PS has it, teachers being the biggest group.

By your logic when only Saskatchewan had medicare, they should have been forced to give it up because everybody didn't have it and thats not fair. If that is your overwhelming complaint, your jealousy that you don't have it so you practise the politics of envy then campaign for a universal sick day plan financed through EI so all is fair. I'm sure you think executive compensation is totally fair because the market set it, Ya right.

 

[Mrbig1949]

Unions campaigned for these long before they were a reality

Some might say any or all of those came about in spite of, not because of, unions; especially when less than 30% of the workforce in Canada is unionized.

Every one of these policies, including public education were campaigned for by organized labour long before they were passed in fact a strong case can be made that initial union support was critical to the eventual passage of the necessary legislation in every case. Basically Canada owes the unions big time for these policies.

 

[train]

Every one of these policies, including public education were campaigned for by organized labour long before they were passed in fact a strong case can be made that initial union support was critical to the eventual passage of the necessary legislation in every case. Basically Canada owes the unions big time for these policies.

Do you write this stuff yourself or does someone at headquartes do that for you ? You obviously were not very good in history were you.

 

[Mia.Colpa]

Just heard Miller is calling a press conference for 11 am this morning regarding the strike. I think he is going to comment on the union's counter offer. You think there's any chance we might have a deal????? Or at least getting close, or will he announce we are further apart than ever.

 

[train]

Read in the newspaper this morning that there might be a settlement in the next few days with CUPE in Windsor. That strike has been ongoing since April I believe. Unlike Toront they have been contracting out garbage disposal since the beginning of the strike there so they have no "build up".

 

[JohnLarue]

There will always be this union or that union that is ahead on this clause or that clause. Even Fuji gets that because they have made it their bargaining priority so it is a DEFERRED WAGE. Everybody in the PS has it, teachers being the biggest group.

By your logic when only Saskatchewan had medicare, they should have been forced to give it up because everybody didn't have it and thats not fair. If that is your overwhelming complaint, your jealousy that you don't have it so you practise the politics of envy then campaign for a universal sick day plan financed through EI so all is fair. I'm sure you think executive compensation is totally fair because the market set it, Ya right.

Your solgan talked about a level playing field
Capital vs. the average guy

But what you do not recognize in this case the capital is coming from the average taxpayer & its going to a select group.
That in its self is inappropriate.
To extort it through a strike is even worse

Jealousy?
Hardly, I get a reasonable number of sick days every year.
How many?, I really do not know, I do not get sick often enough to worry about it
But they are not banked & that has been understood from the beginning
And frankly I tend to appreciate the benefits I get when I know I have earned them through merit , rather than extortion

So why do I care what this group does?
1. I do not like extortion
2. I do not want to pay for this excess.
3. I want value for my tax dollars
4. It is another in a long list of self-absorbed unions who lately feel there is no end to government money & demand they get some (UAW, CAW TTC, CUPE, VIA.........etc). This has to stop

So add that foolish Jealousy argument to a long list of inaccuracies you have spewed out.

 

[Mrbig1949]

History?

Do you write this stuff yourself or does someone at headquartes do that for you ? You obviously were not very good in history were you.

Masters degree in Labour History

 

[Mrbig1949]

Guess what you are not the ref or the score keeper you are one of the players

Your solgan talked about a level playing field
Capital vs. the average guy

But what you do not recognize in this case the capital is coming from the average taxpayer & its going to a select group.
That in its self is inappropriate.
To extort it through a strike is even worse

Jealousy?
Hardly, I get a reasonable number of sick days every year.
How many?, I really do not know, I do not get sick often enough to worry about it
But they are not banked & that has been understood from the beginning
And frankly I tend to appreciate the benefits I get when I know I have earned them through merit , rather than extortion

So why do I care what this group does?
1. I do not like extortion
2. I do not want to pay for this excess.
3. I want value for my tax dollars
4. It is another in a long list of self-absorbed unions who lately feel there is no end to government money & demand they get some (UAW, CAW TTC, CUPE, VIA.........etc). This has to stop

So add that foolish Jealousy argument to a long list of inaccuracies you have spewed out.

So I will decide on my own what is accurate

 

[Rockslinger]

1) Windsor settled.

2) CUPE Toronto gave the City 2 days to settle or they'll walk. They can keep walking for all I care. Nobody is indispensible. Life will go on fine without CUPE.

 

[blackrock13]

Masters degree in Labour History

....... and a life member of the flat earth society.

 

[JohnLarue]

Masters degree in Labour History

Good for you
I bet you got an A+ in Rhetoric 101

Too bad you did not take any economics or finance

You might understand that someone has to pay for the excess that you & your lot think you deserve

 

[wantoplay]

Too bad you did not take any economics or finance

You might understand that someone has to pay for the excess that you & your lot think you deserve

Now you know how the rest of the country feels every time Toronto thinks they can buy crap and the rest of the province/country gets to pay for it!!

 

[Mrbig1949]

The big cities of Canada are the wealth producers

Now you know how the rest of the country feels every time Toronto thinks they can buy crap and the rest of the province/country gets to pay for it!!

The rest are free riding on excess Toronto, Vancouver revenue

 

[Mrbig1949]

Studied lots of economic my friend.

Good for you
I bet you got an A+ in Rhetoric 101

Too bad you did not take any economics or finance

You might understand that someone has to pay for the excess that you & your lot think you deserve

Of course it has to be paid for. That is called economic justice when you move money from the undeserving rich to the hard working poor. The alternative is living like the USA and sinking with them.