Garbage Strike - Give Me a Break

[JohnLarue]

And in fact the majority does live in cities, the big ones are the major wealth producers, they put far more into the gov't in taxes than they get back in services. The small towns and rural areas get back in services far more than they pay in taxes. These are facts you idiot widely acknowledged by everybody with a clue.

Slow down
Your fingers are moving faster than your brain.
What you are not taking into account is corporate taxes
Many large corporations are located in big cities
The banks for instance pay a lot of tax, including a tax on Capital
However, it is their retail branch network in small towns that is their revenue base.
Canadian Tire, Home Hardware, Shoppers Drug Mart etc also have extensive small town networks, where money flows from these locations to corporate head offices and in turn into corporate profits and taxes.
Encana & Suncor are headquartered in Calgary, yet Fort McMurry is where government royalties are made.
Canadian farmers also contribute to our balance of trade surplus
ie. we export way more food than we import

So do not sell the small towns short too quickly.
This is one more example of your lack of economic understanding and your self indulgent focus on your special interest group.

 

[JohnLarue]

Can't increase taxes? Guys like you have been saying that for decades, it doesn't matter it is what you get back that matters, case in point Sweden as usual.
QUOTE]

Why dont you move to Sweden then?
I know we would be better off

 

[JohnLarue]

You are repeating cliches LaRue, Wizard of Oz man behind the curtain stuff, there is no substance just a string of rhetorical cliches.
QUOTE]


Thats just too funny
You the king of rhetoric & inaccurate union hall slogans.

Face it man, they tried your great social experiment in Russia & communism just does not work

 

[Mrbig1949]

Nobody is talking about Communism Larue, you don't even like Liberalism

You are repeating cliches LaRue, Wizard of Oz man behind the curtain stuff, there is no substance just a string of rhetorical cliches.
QUOTE]


Thats just too funny
You the king of rhetoric & inaccurate union hall slogans.

Face it man, they tried your great social experiment in Russia & communism just does not work

You have no sophisticated economic understanding of how the world works just country club rhetoric. Old rich folks self jutification, yeh I know your hero is Ronald Reagan the father of deficits and the creator of our present situation. Face it LaRue, your system was tried in Germany and Italy in the 1930s. That worked well.

 

[JohnLarue]

Lets all keep our own money and buy health care ourselves. See how inefficient that is, got your own MRI there Larue, got your own CAT scan?

Lets all keep our own money and skip public education, we can all have our own school in the kitchen, how is your gym Larue, got a good science lab over there?

Lets all keep our own money and build our own roads. How is your road coming along LaRue?

How about the environment Larue, who needs enforcement officers or meat inspectors, we can look after that ourselves, got the swine flu yet Larue?

How about an army? Do we really need one or should we all just protect ourselves?

Police force and fire department Larue or you want to look after your place with your own gun and the garden hose? How is that working for you?

Did I hear someone say it would be a lot more efficient if we had a government to collect what we need from us and do these things collectively?
Oh yea, that would be the government being far more efficient with our money than we could ever be.

How about that American health care system eh? A paragon of efficiencey, they pay far more and get far less than Canada who has the government to do it far more efficiently.

Works for me, and so you see, the stupid think they can spend moRney more efficiently than the government, that is why J.S. Mills called the Conservatives the Stupid Party.

I rest my case, your witness dufus.

There is excess and waste in everyone of those examples you provided
Teachers, overpaid & underworked
Roads- the big jobs are contracted out to privaste firms, but ever watched a city crew, four guys watching one guy with he shovel.
Meat Inspectors- The fat that even one person became sick indicates they are not efficient
Army- How much did we pay for that broken submarine (the one with the screen door)
Police & Firemen- essential & I will alway support them but since they are unions - not as efficient as possible

Oh bye the way NDP - Naturally Dumb Party

 

[Mrbig1949]

Just slander of hard working people.

There is excess and waste in everyone of those examples you provided
Teachers, overpaid & underworked
Roads- the big jobs are contracted out to privaste firms, but ever watched a city crew, four guys watching one guy with he shovel.
Meat Inspectors- The fat that even one person became sick indicates they are not efficient
Army- How much did we pay for that broken submarine (the one with the screen door)
Police & Firemen- essential & I will alway support them but since they are unions - not as efficient as possible

Oh bye the way NDP - Naturally Dumb Party

Your idiotic anacdotal comments don't add up to anything, teachers, most stressful job around, you wouldn't last 10 minutes. Road crews? Cliche, meat inspectors? Who is fall guy MccAIN ADMITS IT WAS HIM. Public sector unonists the cops and firefighters, my brothers and sisters, yes why don't you crap on unionized nurses and ambulence drivers while you are here, since that is public sector i"m sure you think they are lazy as well.

 

[blackrock13]

It's clear that the solution to the greater problem and disagreement of who does a better job of running the economy of this country is really not going to be solved in this forum but there are some excellent points being made with very little blood spilt.

I understand that threads morph in many direction from the OP. My real beef is this strike, this union local, and at this time; Mein Gawt!

The unions leaders' position of putting a Sunday night deadline for a solution is something that escapes me. I doubt that even HIS Whiteness is feeling pressured. The union leaders are getting paid during this strike, while others are not, to negotiate a settlement. The Via union representatives have been at it for 2 years and believe it or not I feel some of their grievances have merit.

The other big garbage strike is now history and the short answer is the union lost and the idea the shortcomings in this agreement will act as building blocks for the next is a losers position; we didn't get much of what we wanted, but we gave it a good fight.

I wonder if the local leader realize that things are beginning to go against them, injunctions are not being put forward and once that starts it's like building a brick wall that will cause problems for the strike. It's clear to me that the unions position now is to work towards legislation and arbitration, that historically leans in their favour. The first stretch of hot hot weather will just add to it, although I like the rain and cool temperatures.

 

[Mervyn]

The unions leaders' position of putting a Sunday night deadline for a solution is something that escapes me.

It's a PR move , nothing more nothing less. It's designed to make him look good if a deal is made , and to make the city look bad by placing blame on them if a deal isn't made.

 

[Rockslinger]

So, what will CUPE local 416 do if no negotiated settlement is not reached by midnight Sunday? Will they take their garbage cans and go home ? Good riddance! We should plan on life without CUPE and start moving forward with private services instead of pissing away our time dealing with these crybabies.

 

[Mrbig1949]

Tough union negotiations only work with deadlines

It's clear that the solution to the greater problem and disagreement of who does a better job of running the economy of this country is really not going to be solved in this forum but there are some excellent points being made with very little blood spilt.

I understand that threads morph in many direction from the OP. My real beef is this strike, this union local, and at this time; Mein Gawt!

The unions leaders' position of putting a Sunday night deadline for a solution is something that escapes me. I doubt that even HIS Whiteness is feeling pressured. The union leaders are getting paid during this strike, while others are not, to negotiate a settlement. The Via union representatives have been at it for 2 years and believe it or not I feel some of their grievances have merit.

The other big garbage strike is now history and the short answer is the union lost and the idea the shortcomings in this agreement will act as building blocks for the next is a losers position; we didn't get much of what we wanted, but we gave it a good fight.

I wonder if the local leader realize that things are beginning to go against them, injunctions are not being put forward and once that starts it's like building a brick wall that will cause problems for the strike. It's clear to me that the unions position now is to work towards legislation and arbitration, that historically leans in their favour. The first stretch of hot hot weather will just add to it, although I like the rain and cool temperatures.

Even if the union believes its position has weakened, (I'm sure the city wants this over as well and will compromise its present position) then there is a huge face saving exercise that goes on and is very important. Both sides need to be able to claim a victory if you ever want it to end.

 

[Mrbig1949]

Not going to happen

So, what will CUPE local 416 do if no negotiated settlement is not reached by midnight Sunday? Will they take their garbage cans and go home ? Good riddance! We should plan on life without CUPE and start moving forward with private services instead of pissing away our time dealing with these crybabies.

You know that everybody knows that, this is a left of centre council. Tough negotiations are one thing, union busting and contracting out is quite another. That means fighting not only CUPE but the entire labour movement and in the ensuing internacine warfare allowing a right wing council to be elected. You will just love Mayor Doug Haliday OMFG.

 

[wantoplay]

Your idiotic anacdotal comments don't add up to anything, teachers, most stressful job around, you wouldn't last 10 minutes. Road crews? Cliche, meat inspectors? Who is fall guy MccAIN ADMITS IT WAS HIM. Public sector unonists the cops and firefighters, my brothers and sisters, yes why don't you crap on unionized nurses and ambulence drivers while you are here, since that is public sector i"m sure you think they are lazy as well.

You need to lay down your pipe. Teachers - stressful?? You have got to be kidding me.... What a joke. grossly overpaid, under worked, living in a total fantasy land.

 

[Rockslinger]

That means fighting not only CUPE but the entire labour movement

I don't want to fight CUPE or the entire labour movement. I just want the City and CUPE to exercise their democratic right to walk away from each other. Then we can each get on with the rest of our lives. The City will hire people who actually want to work and CUPE members will be free to find a new employer that will make them happy. Win, win.

 

[train]

Windsor just settled with CUPE for a 6.5% increase over 4 years or 1.5% per year and no retirement benefits. For this they have been on strike since April.
Do the rank and file ever realize that they have been just totally conned by CUPE ?

 

[blackrock13]

Even if the union believes its position has weakened, (I'm sure the city wants this over as well and will compromise its present position) then there is a huge face saving exercise that goes on and is very important. Both sides need to be able to claim a victory if you ever want it to end.

You forget that 3/4+ of the general public are behind the city representatives/position or at least against the union's decisions/actions. That gives the city more leeway to take certain decisions.

CUPE will never disappear, as some has demanded. There's too many locals in too many positions for too long. The best you can hope for is a change in expectations on their part because of defeats at the bargaining table, in the press or at the ballot box in the union hall or in the public. The union's political wing has mellowed somewhat in it's approach to make gains, the most obvious is the Nova Scotia ruling party is barely recognizable as NDP with their platform. Put that trend with comments from leading union leaders like Buzz Hargrove to not automatically vote NDP and you 'll see things change.

Just like our need for unions to hang around and remind us how bad things can get, it's alway good to occasionally have a NDP party in power at the provincial level, so they get a lesson in how hard it is to run a government, especially if they push their agendas.

 

[Rockslinger]

it's alway good to occasionally have a NDP party in power at the provincial level, so they get a lesson in how hard it is to run a government,

It turned Bob Rae into a Liberal.

 

[blackrock13]

It turned Bob Rae into a Liberal.

Of all the crossovers that I've seen through the years, Rae's change was the least political and self serving. I firmly believe that most of the politicians today really are soft on what party they belong to as long as the party of day fits their focus/outlook.

 

[blackrock13]

Windsor just settled with CUPE for a 6.5% increase over 4 years or 1.5% per year and no retirement benefits. For this they have been on strike since April.
Do the rank and file ever realize that they have been just totally conned by CUPE ?

Maybe not conned, but they should be feeling a little chaffed and ask for some KY next time.

Wasn't today a beautiful day for a walk, on the picket line.

 

[Mrbig1949]

Most people couldn't cut it as a teacher

You need to lay down your pipe. Teachers - stressful?? You have got to be kidding me.... What a joke. grossly overpaid, under worked, living in a total fantasy land.

Stress level at the air traffic control level. You have no clue.

 

[Mrbig1949]

They would have got much less without strike

Windsor just settled with CUPE for a 6.5% increase over 4 years or 1.5% per year and no retirement benefits. For this they have been on strike since April.
Do the rank and file ever realize that they have been just totally conned by CUPE ?

For all of you outside the labour movement don't seem to get this point, the balance of the raise vs the money lost is of little consequence to workers. What really matters is what is called the end rate, how much do you make at the end of the contract. Most pensions are based on some formula like 70% of the average of the best 5 years. Therefore the critical issue is how high can we get the end rate. They might live for 30 years on that figure plus inflation.