Garbage Strike - Give Me a Break

[Mrbig1949]

Bob Rae was always a Liberal

It turned Bob Rae into a Liberal.

He tried to turn the NDP into a second Liberal Party because he found the official one moribund and corrupt. When the NDP wouldn't change much he reverted to type.

 

[blackrock13]

Stress level at the air traffic control level. You have no clue.

So, finally somebody in the public service who earns their salary, for crying out loud. I know of many more, honestly.

I even believe that teachers, as a group, earn their pay. There are fuck ups in the biz, as in many occupations, but a lot of us couldn't do their job for long. Teaching is only part of the job. There are some aspects of the contract that I have trouble with, but not many.

Keep focused people. Don't let the dirt tossed in the air by some keep you from focusing on this strike, this local, right now.

 

[Mrbig1949]

OMFG Blackrock we agree

So, finally somebody in the public service who earns their salary, for crying out loud. I know of many more, honestly.

I even believe that teachers, as a group, earn their pay. There are fuck ups in the biz, as in many occupations, but a lot of us couldn't do their job for long. Teaching is only part of the job. There are some aspects of the contract that I have trouble with, but not many.

Keep focused people. Don't let the dirt tossed in the air by some keep you from focusing on this strike, this local, right now.

Ask all the non teachers who had a teacher for a mom or dad how hard they work. You will get a shock.

 

[wantoplay]

Stress level at the air traffic control level. You have no clue.

No, you have no idea at all, just how close to them I am. So get a clue!!

 

[blackrock13]

He tried to turn the NDP into a second Liberal Party because he found the official one moribund and corrupt. When the NDP wouldn't change much he reverted to type.

A corrupt political party. Say it ain't so, Joe.

So the political party that carries the banner of the unions in this country, at the provincial and federal level is corrupt. Your not quite clear on that point. Can it be more obvious? It's a well know fact in political circles, especially when viewed on the international stage, that all the main Canadian political parties are basically socialist based. It just that some are more so. Even now, Harper is finding out that, to survive in power, he has to do certain things that might tag him as liberal or socialist, and he hates it.

 

[blackrock13]

Ask all the non teachers who had a teacher for a mom or dad how hard they work. You will get a shock.

I'm not shock one bit.

 

[blackrock13]

For all of you outside the labour movement don't seem to get this point, the balance of the raise vs the money lost is of little consequence to workers. What really matters is what is called the end rate, how much do you make at the end of the contract. Most pensions are based on some formula like 70% of the average of the best 5 years. Therefore the critical issue is how high can we get the end rate. They might live for 30 years on that figure plus inflation.

In other words grab all you can. All the other issues are just flack.

Are you telling me that the pension isn't index?

 

[Mrbig1949]

Most public pensions are indexed but...

In other words grab all you can. All the other issues are just flack.

Are you telling me that the pension isn't index?

Increasingly not FULLY indexed. The teachers, the strongest of the public unions just lost fll indexing that they had had for decades. Now if inflation goes over a certain level they don't get full indexing but money can be made up later if inflation goes down very low. It is extremely complex.

They were faced with a problem of financing the plan that req'd either a rate increase up to 15% of ages, a later retirement formula or a slight deindexing. Chose option #3.

 

[blackrock13]

This a question for 'Someone'. No one else has to read this but it might apply to this thread.

Economics and history interesects in Chile. Milton Friedman, nobel economist, pulls a rabbit out of his hat and grabs Chile from a point of no return.

He's renown for his theory that money does not only rely in changes in the quantity of money but also the demand for money. As the Quantity of Money Available rises, and the 'Velocity of Money' and the Price level of goods and services are constant, The Price Level of Goods & Services also rises. Is that it?

I'm hoping that not too many eyes are glazing over a this point. I told you that you didn't have to read this.

Using simple maths:
MV=PY
dM V+ M dV=dP Y + dY P

This expression means that you can modify the monetary mass and the velocity at the same time. Agents and markets involved will find a new equilibrium either rising prices or output. You can simplify by doing dV=0 and dY=0, in this special case dM V=dP Y, the rise in prices will be V/Y.

Could this be put in simpler terms? If all you do is ask for more and more and don't give good returns for that increase, thing eventually go to hell in a hand basket and fall apart apart with uncontrolled prices increase.

Where are you Someone?

 

[Mrbig1949]

The interesting thing is the Freidmanites are now totally discredited along with Greenspan for creating the deregulation-privatization "hands off the Wheel" Capitalism that let to the recession.

 

[blackrock13]

The interesting thing is the Freidmanites are now totally discredited along with Greenspan for creating the deregulation-privatization "hands off the Wheel" Capitalism that let to the recession.

News to me.

Yes, you'll always find people to disagree with a viewpoint, saying he's discredited is just wrong. He may not be in vogue, but that doesn't mean discredited. Even some people disagree with Darwin.

You keep trying to make your points and arguments in isolation. My major tack throughout this thread is to a blending of the various theories and practices. It like growing one single crop, a really weak strategy. all you need is one thing to pop up that you didn't think of and it will happen, then your scrunted and will wither and die.

You keep harping on that it's your way or the highway but the tide of public opinion is changing.

Remember, in this strike this local at this time 77% think it's wrong.
That's not even close, + or - squat 19 times out of 20.

I've heard CUPE Ferguson many times in over the last day and he reminds me of a taped message relaying a carefully worded statement/mantra and not free flowing thought.

 

[someone]

This a question for 'Someone'. No one else has to read this but it might apply to this thread.

Economics and history interesects in Chile. Milton Friedman, nobel economist, pulls a rabbit out of his hat and grabs Chile from a point of no return.

He's renown for his theory that money does not only rely in changes in the quantity of money but also the demand for money. As the Quantity of Money Available rises, and the 'Velocity of Money' and the Price level of goods and services are constant, The Price Level of Goods & Services also rises. Is that it?

I'm hoping that not too many eyes are glazing over a this point. I told you that you didn't have to read this.

Using simple maths:
MV=PY
dM V+ M dV=dP Y + dY P

This expression means that you can modify the monetary mass and the velocity at the same time. Agents and markets involved will find a new equilibrium either rising prices or output. You can simplify by doing dV=0 and dY=0, in this special case dM V=dP Y, the rise in prices will be V/Y.

Could this be put in simpler terms? If all you do is ask for more and more and don't give good returns for that increase, thing eventually go to hell in a hand basket and fall apart apart with uncontrolled prices increase.

Where are you Someone?

You seem to be the only person here who knows anything about Freidman. That is likely because most of his critics are liberal arts types who have neither the knowledge of math or economics to understand his economic works. The only stuff by him that they can really read is his philosophical stuff.

I will just clarify a couple of things in your post. Freidman did not come up with the quantity equation. Irving Fisher is usually cited with it but I understand that you can actually trace it back even further. The quantity equation is an identity that has to be true and not one argues about that. Fisher argued it was more than just an identity as he argued that dV = 0 and Y was determined by the real economy (e.g. the state of technology, the stocks of capital and labour).

There is a relationship between the quantity equation and Friedman’s X% rule. Basically, Friedman wrote a famous monetary history of the United States and came to the conclusion that "inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon." There is not doubt that this conclusion is true in the long run. No knowledgeable person seriously debates this. This led to Freidman’s X% rule. If dV = 0, then a percentage increase in M leads to an approximately equal percentage increase in P plus Y (I will lead you to verify the math as it is not hard). Thus, he argued that if you don’t want inflation, you just have to set the increase in the money supply equal to the long run rate of growth in the economy.

There is no doubt that Freidman had a point. However, implementing it turned out to be hard. The Bank of Canada tried to do this. However, it turned out to be during a period of extreme financial innovation. This meant that V was unstable. Some blame this for the subsequent recession. Another problem is that central banks don’t have perfect control over the money supply and data on it lags by months and even then is often subject to large revisions. Thus, for both reasons, a central bank may think it is following the X% rule but find out much later that the money supply was growing much faster or slower than they thought. This has led the Bank of Canada (and several other central banks) to target inflation with interest rates as a policy tool rather than the money supply. They can instantly observe what interest rates are but can only estimate what the money supply is without waiting months for data. Although Friedman was correct in the long run that "inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon." It turns out that targeting inflation with interest rates as a policy tool seems to be a more effective way of influencing the relationship.

Apparently, the European Central Bank still uses monetary targets but I do not know the details (I am actually a microeconomist and not a macroeconomist so this is not my area of specialization)

 

[blackrock13]

Someone;

Thanks. It's going to take a few more reads to break it down and take it in, but it will happen.

Now back to our regularly scheduled broadcast.

 

[The Bandit]

Ask all the non teachers who had a teacher for a mom or dad how hard they work. You will get a shock.

Yeah right, they use the same curriculum year after year.

 

[blackrock13]

Yeah right, they use the same curriculum year after year.

Sorry Bandit, the curriculum changes a good bit every year, thanks to the provincial government constant tinkering for tinkering sake so they can claim they're doing something. It take a few years of working for a teacher to have a teaching plan that doesn't need a lot of modification. It does get easier in time, but it always a work in progress.

 

[Mrbig1949]

Blackrock my brother

Sorry Bandit, the curriculum changes a good bit every year, thanks to the provincial government constant tinkering for tinkering sake so they can claim they're doing something. It take a few years of working for a teacher to have a teaching plan that doesn't need a lot of modification. It does get easier in time, but it always a work in progress.

You DO understand. Hope springs eternal from the human breast.

 

[blackrock13]

You DO understand. Hope springs eternal from the human breast.

I'm glad you've finally come down from your cave. I always have understood.

 

[buckwheat1]

It's Over!!!!

 

[Corey]

It's Over!!!!

For Miller as well.


This opinion piece from the Star should convert any Miller supporters to the
pissed off at Miller camp.

http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/671636

 

[Mrbig1949]

As a Miller supporter I agree he has totally mishandled this strike. He should have caved much earlier.