Garbage Strike - Give Me a Break

[JohnLarue]

Those are great policies union only contracting etc. Helps create a high wage high standard of living city. That is where I want to live, where organized workers make high wages.

It also creates higher property taxes and rents, thereby lowering the standard of living for all non-organized workers
That is not where I want to live.

Does any pro-union supporter understand that someone (taxpayer) must pay for their demands?
Or they probably just do not care, as long as they feel they got a better deal than their true value?

Banking a couple hundred sick days at my expense (taxpayer) is just plain wrong.
It has to stop.

An employee should be compensated based on the value of his or her work, not based upon his or her ability to organize or how much the union spends on their chief negotiator

 

[Mrbig1949]

Of course we all pay for public services. I made $170 000 last year, paid $ 70 000 in taxes, don't begrudge one cent. Taxes are the price we pay to live in civilized society. BTW those who want replacement workers, we went through all of this in the 1920's to 1940s. We settled our labour wars with axe handles and Louisville sluggers. This is where you go instantly when scabs are used.

" After God had made the snake and the toad and the worm he had a little slime left over so he made the lowest of all of natures creatures, the scab."

Jack London

If we valued work on what you contribute I guess you want 100% inheritance tax for the slugs who inherit wealth but do no work. How much should an arms manufacturer make. Nothing because they contribute only to death. You see it is a tough one. We have to paraphrase Churchill, the worst system except for all the other ones.

 

[lovelatinas]

All I have to say is David Miller don't give in. Wait it out and these guys will come back crawling on their knees for their jobs back. Wonder how long can these garbage bums can go without pay in a recession? The longer the strike goes the more desperate these overpaid bums become. Stick it to them David Miller. PRIVATIZE.

 

[koxinga]

what i dont understand is how can people generate that much trash, driving in bags of garbage at one time.

10 days into the strike: total about 0.75 plastic grocery shopping bag worth of biodegradable garbage, 0.5 shopping bag worth of non-bio garbage

 

[masterchief]

All I have to say is David Miller don't give in. Wait it out and these guys will come back crawling on their knees for their jobs back. Wonder how long can these garbage bums can go without pay in a recession? The longer the strike goes the more desperate these overpaid bums become. Stick it to them David Miller. PRIVATIZE.

lol

First off, David Miller as the counsellor for York cancelled thier privatized garbage pick-up's to gain favour with the unions who he needed both times to be elected Mayor. He's also tried during his 2 terms, to uncuccessfully break the contract Etobicoke has with WM for thier private pick-up.

You'll see....this strike will last about 4 weeks and they they'll magically come to the table and agree on things.

It'll take about 4 weeks of payroll savings due to the strike to pay for all the concessions the union is asking for...and the city cannot afford right now.

Miller will try to come out of this as some sort of hero....he needs the positive spin so he can run again next year with the support of his union buddies.

 

[fuji]

The solution to the strike is 3% per year like all other city workers, cops, teachers, firefighters etc. Leave the rest of the contract status quo.

I don't see why they should get 3%, inflation in Toronto right now is near zero. Why a raise at all? I think we should be talking about a pay cut.

 

[rama putri]

Fire them all. Re-hire new garbage workers who understand the value of money. Get rid of the unions.

 

[squash500]

lol

First off, David Miller as the counsellor for York cancelled thier privatized garbage pick-up's to gain favour with the unions who he needed both times to be elected Mayor. He's also tried during his 2 terms, to uncuccessfully break the contract Etobicoke has with WM for thier private pick-up.

You'll see....this strike will last about 4 weeks and they they'll magically come to the table and agree on things.

It'll take about 4 weeks of payroll savings due to the strike to pay for all the concessions the union is asking for...and the city cannot afford right now.

Miller will try to come out of this as some sort of hero....he needs the positive spin so he can run again next year with the support of his union buddies.

I think your post is very accurate. However I don't think Miller will be re-elected so fast in 2010. I think that Miller has pissed off so many Torontonians that if John Tory runs against Miller in the 2010 mayoralty election that Tory will win!

 

[Mao Tse Tongue]

What you are ignoring is the inflationary effect that Buzz & his friends embed into the economy with ever increasing wage demands.
In the end someone has to pay up & it is generally the consumer / taxpayer

The other issue this argument ignores is the disconnect between the cost & the value of the services delivered.

Do I want my garbage picked up ?
Yes
Do I want to have to pay higher rent or property taxes in order to have this done?
No _They are high enough already

But in order to ensure that garbage collectors get this ridiculous benefit (sick day bank) they feel they are entitled to my rent or property taxes will have to go up

It is a transfer of wealth that
1. Is inequitable (they certainly have not earned it)
2. Is being done without my input
3. Its is being done under the threat of a strike (this is despicable)

I agree. Property taxes and land transfers taxes are simply INCREDIBLE. Homeowners pay absurd levies for these fools and then they won't pick up my garbage half the time because my trash is 1MM from where they like it. It really is incredible. I'm surprised there hasn't been a homeowner revolt against these fools.

 

[blackrock13]

Fire them all. Re-hire new garbage workers who understand the value of money. Get rid of the unions.

Done, tomorrow. Take a breath.

You're right, If the city wanted to they could hire workers to do the work, It would take 6 months, consume a lot of crow and there would be lot of action on the picket line, but the slippery slope for the union would be there.

Unfortunately His Whiteness hasn't got the gonad or the inclination to stab his bum buddies in the back.

 

[Rockslinger]

You're right, If the city wanted to they could hire workers to do the work, It would take 6 months, consume a lot of crow and there would be lot of action on the picket line, but the slippery slope for the union would be there.

It would be extremely difficult if not impossible for the City to curb the power of the unions to extort. This is because Toronto is full of LLL, socialists and commies who suck on the public tit (apologies for being so blunt). Unfortunately, I don't have the stats handy but a huge segment (over 50%?) of the voting population draw their paycheque from the public sector such as teachers, medical folks, Queen's Park, civic workers, Hydro, etc.

 

[Anynym]

Fire them all. Re-hire new garbage workers who understand the value of money. Get rid of the unions.

The unions have enshrined protections in law that say hiring replacement workers is okay only so long as it isn't done to break (really, to weaken) the union.

 

[Rockslinger]

That would be a very interesting stat to confirm. It would support the view that the government is a self-perpetuating entity unto itself.

Ok, let's try this anecdotally. Look at yourself, your relatives and friends. How many work directly for the municipal, provincial and/or federal government? How many work for an arm of the government such as Hydro, the CBC, LCBO, Canada Post, etc.? (A friend of mine said that every one of his relatives is a teacher or a medical professional so they all draw a paycheque from the public sector.)

 

[Mrbig1949]

The wages and benefits of the public sector create an expectation that the private sector must meet to keep good workers. This is good for everybody except cheapskate private employers who want something for nothing.

 

[someone]

Done, tomorrow. Take a breath.

You're right, If the city wanted to they could hire workers to do the work, It would take 6 months, consume a lot of crow and there would be lot of action on the picket line, but the slippery slope for the union would be there.

Unfortunately His Whiteness hasn't got the gonad or the inclination to stab his bum buddies in the back.

Actually, if the province got involved, this could, in theory, be settled much more quickly than 6 months. They have the power to set conditions as part of back to work legislation. Thus, they could follow Reagan’s example with the air traffic controllers. Order them back to work with an imposed settlement (no need to worry about overly generous arbitrators) and declare their jobs vacant if they don’t show up. MRBIG1949 brings up the possibility that the strikers may try to use physical intimidation to interfere with the lawful right of others to go to work. This would be a possibility but it did not happened with air traffic controllers. However, I admit that there is a difference between professionals like air traffic controllers and high school dropouts like garbage men. In this case it would be an issue of whether or not the police and courts are willing to enforce the law or if they want to take the easy way out and do nothing.

All this being said, I don’t expect the province to take any tough action. At the end of the day, if they impose back-to-work legislation it will likely just involve binding arbitration with terms of reference that favour the union and taxpayers will be the lossers.

 

[Rockslinger]

Unions exist to protect mediocrity. At the extreme, unions can make sure that even the sloppiest, laziest, most insubordinate worker gets to keep his/her job and an annual raise to boot.

Yup, competent men and women don't need a union to "protect" them. Monoploy public sector unions are really a form of welfare using taxpayer funds. Besides, unlike Mayor Miller with his vast taxing and police powers, the private sector cannot simply increase their revenue by screwing (fucking?) the taxpayers by increasing existing taxes and introducing new taxes.

 

[blackrock13]

It would be extremely difficult if not impossible for the City to curb the power of the unions to extort. This is because Toronto is full of LLL, socialists and commies who suck on the public tit (apologies for being so blunt). Unfortunately, I don't have the stats handy but a huge segment (over 50%?) of the voting population draw their paycheque from the public sector such as teachers, medical folks, Queen's Park, civic workers, Hydro, etc.

It's crystal clear that this 50%, for conversation sake, is really really silent. With the exception of the local and national union prez, I've heard NO ONE, outside the few on this BB, say anything positive or supportive about he unions or the strike. It's amazing how quiet it has been.

 

[blackrock13]

The unions have enshrined protections in law that say hiring replacement workers is okay only so long as it isn't done to break (really, to weaken) the union.

Are you talking about these unions, in particular, or in general. A corporation has a right by law to run it's business and if that means hiring staff to do that, they can. It's can be like waving a red flag in front of a union member and will cause some friction, but it's allowed. A clause in a contract like you say would be in direct conflict with this. I see it in the few provinces that have 'anti-scab' laws, and I hate that term, but not here.

 

[Rockslinger]

I see it in the few provinces that have 'anti-scab' laws, and I hate that term, but not here.

Those are the "commie" provinces. When I was in Quebec, I was working on my own house on a Sunday and a union member (they drive around in pickup trucks) reported me to the authorities. In Quebec, there is a law that nobody can do construction work on a Sunday. Maybe, the law has "evolved" to the point now where you are required by law to hire a union member to paint your own porch (i.e. illegal for you to paint your own house). Talk about going from the sublime to the ridiculous .

 

[ogibowt]

Yup, competent men and women don't need a union to "protect" them. Monoploy public sector unions are really a form of welfare using taxpayer funds. Besides, unlike Mayor Miller with his vast taxing and police powers, the private sector cannot simply increase their revenue by screwing (fucking?) the taxpayers by increasing existing taxes and introducing new taxes.

you must be an executive working for Rogers..