Gas Prices

Esco!

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Nov 10, 2004
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Keebler, thats a stupid argument!!
What about people like me who live downtown and drive less than 100 km a week???
Why should I pay more for gas in my pathfinder when there's dudes driving econocars who drive 300 or 400 km's per week???
Guess who uses more fuel???
 

booboobear

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Aug 20, 2003
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Keebler Elf said:
Yes, they should pay more per L. Whether or not I "like" someone has nothing to do with my argument. And, finally, beer is not in short supply - gas is.

I dunno why I bother sometimes...

(p.s. go learn what logic is all about before you try "using" it)

Whose logic yours or mine . I think that 99 % of people would disagree they should pay more but since it's YOUR logic it must be right.
I notice when you can't defend your position with facts you attack someone else. Why not just stick to the points of discussion. What about the point of the so called subsidies coming from our pocket. I also think you are totally wrong about if people used less gas the price would drop. At what magical point would this occur 20 % less.
Your logic is, you drink more so you will end up with liver disease and burden the medical system so you should pay more, got it. Notice I said that's the way you come across . Don't buy into this shortage as a reason for raising prices daily , we haven't even tapped Canada's supply and if you are so concerned then work out alternative fuels. Raising prices does nothing to help us.
 

someone

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whynotme said:
also oil prices are based on us $
as our dollar goes up so does all our imports that are based on the us$
Given that Canada is a net exporter of oil, I'm not sure I see your point.
 

whynotme

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Aug 1, 2003
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if our $ is up from last year then the price of our gas is up even if the price was the same
the world price of oil is based on the us$ not on ours
alberta makes more $ when our $ is less than the us $
 

someone

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whynotme said:
if our $ is up from last year then the price of our gas is up even if the price was the same
No. If the U.S. price is the same, when our dollar goes up, it becomes cheaper in C$ If the C$ went down it would be more expensive.(holding US price constant)
whynotme said:
the world price of oil is based on the us$ not on ours
alberta makes more $ when our $ is less than the us $
Yes, it does result in a income redistribution to oil producing provinces like Alberta, Saskatchewan, Newfoundland, etc. from consuming provinces like Ontario.
 

new2game

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Read that again Elf

booboobear said:
Boy you really don't like anyone well off enough to own an suv do you .
First they use more gas so they already pay more taxes so people like you and me can have benefits now you want them to pay more per litre.
I think ,following your logic , if you drink more than me you should pay more when you go to the l.c.b.o.
...I think you hit it right on Boobear...

N2G
 

HappyHookers

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tileboys said:
does anyone stop to think that bottled water costs an average of $1.75 per liter,no one complains yet you can open your tap and get it for free, yet all these yuppies buy it by the the truck load or will fire up the 8 cyl 300 horsepower escalade to go the corner store leaving it running while they get their healthy precious water in the plastic bottle made with toxins that fill up landfill sites...way to care about the environment however the people in Michigan love the $7.00 per tonne of garbage us health conscious canadians send them!

I will admit I got as far as this post, it is clearly the best post I have read in a long time.

HH
 

ham2004

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Jan 16, 2004
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Its official.. we lose, big business wins

Boo - I understand a 50 million dollar price tag, but if you were able to continue to milk you product for 24 years, would your children have the same ethics as you when it comes to helping the masses of the world.

Eco - My man, SUV's are not evil, they are only protrayed that way by evil stunt SUV's on TV and in the movies. Lets classify the SUV of today shall we.

1. Todays SUV can be bought with a hybrd engine much more fuel effiecent than most domestics on the market.

2. They are smaller and lighter unless they are designed for specfic purpose, like towing large trailers or transporting more than 4 people into and out of hazardous terrian.

3. SUV is a generic name for Special Use Vehicles. Most production vehicles are now SUV's.

Ecomony does not have to be scarficed just because you own a SUV. Toyato, Ford, MB, GM, and Chyrsler all have good fuel effiecent SUV's, and I do not mean the hemi's and Navigators.
 

Keebler Elf

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Aug 31, 2001
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Escohort said:
Why should I pay more for gas in my pathfinder when there's dudes driving econocars who drive 300 or 400 km's per week???
Because you're wasting more gasoline per km than someone with a more fuel efficient car. The intent isn't to penalize how much you use so much as it is to penalize how much you waste. The best solution would be to segment the pricing market so that each person pays the "perfect" price for how much fuel they're using, how much they're wasting (e.g. car model), etc. But that's too complicated to be feasible. Charging by how much you pump at one time is much simpler.

It's not as feasible to charge by how much someone consumes in a year. Otherwise the gas hogs could really pay for what they waste. It's much simpler to charge by how much your vehicle's gas tank holds.

Besides, this isn't a realistic proposal b/c it would never fly. It's just my $0.02.
 

Keebler Elf

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Aug 31, 2001
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booboobear said:
Whose logic yours or mine . I think that 99 % of people would disagree they should pay more but since it's YOUR logic it must be right.
I notice when you can't defend your position with facts you attack someone else. Why not just stick to the points of discussion. What about the point of the so called subsidies coming from our pocket. I also think you are totally wrong about if people used less gas the price would drop. At what magical point would this occur 20 % less.
Your logic is, you drink more so you will end up with liver disease and burden the medical system so you should pay more, got it. Notice I said that's the way you come across . Don't buy into this shortage as a reason for raising prices daily , we haven't even tapped Canada's supply and if you are so concerned then work out alternative fuels. Raising prices does nothing to help us.
Sigh. It's like talking to a high schooler. You can't comprehend the basic rules of supply and demand which, btw, include PRICING.

What about the subsidies? Subsidies come from gov't. Which borrows the money and adds to the debt. Which then uses taxpayer money to pay down the debt (or, more likely, the interest on the debt). So no, the taxpayers are not directly paying the subsidies. The taxpayer is indirectly paying for the subsidies, incurring higher costs than would otherwise be incurred by doing away with the subsidies altogether and just charging the true price to begin with.

I dunno about your weird liver disease comment; those are your statements not mine. And it's not even a logical one b/c getting liver disease isn't a certainty. Using up a limited resource and thereby driving up the price is.

You want to talk about points, well then let's talk about points. The price of a barrel of oil is at AN ALL TIME HIGH. Yet for some unfathomable reason you can't understand why this would raise the price of gasoline at the pumps. Tapping Canada's oil supply? Buddy, you're so without a clue. You just expect us to snap our figures and tanker trucks of gas will magically appear? Who is going to pay for the extraction costs? Not you, b/c you aren't willing to pay more at the pumps. And guess what, it's cheaper to buy gas from Saudi Arabia than it is to extract it from our resources and then refine it. Otherwise we'd be doing just that.

I don't attack people. I attack stupid, ignorant, paranoid, conspiracy-theorist, poorly thought out arguments that are ridiculous to the extreme. In other words, arguments that you tend to put forward.
 

Esco!

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Keebler Elf said:
Because you're wasting more gasoline per km than someone with a more fuel efficient car. The intent isn't to penalize how much you use so much as it is to penalize how much you waste. The best solution would be to segment the pricing market so that each person pays the "perfect" price for how much fuel they're using, how much they're wasting (e.g. car model), etc. But that's too complicated to be feasible. Charging by how much you pump at one time is much simpler.

It's not as feasible to charge by how much someone consumes in a year. Otherwise the gas hogs could really pay for what they waste. It's much simpler to charge by how much your vehicle's gas tank holds.

Besides, this isn't a realistic proposal b/c it would never fly. It's just my $0.02.
Keebler, I respect your opinion on all this but you have to remember that eventually we're gonna run out of oil anyways. Conserving fuel only delays the inevitable. What we need to do is find a better and more permanent source of fuel that's virtually endless and doesnt pollute. It'll be difficult but it can be done.
Alcohol/Ethanol is one idea and so is Hydrogen if they can find a way to stabilize it. Battery power is also a possibility.
 

someone

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Keebler Elf said:
Because you're wasting more gasoline per km than someone with a more fuel efficient car. The intent isn't to penalize how much you use so much as it is to penalize how much you waste. The best solution would be to segment the pricing market so that each person pays the "perfect" price for how much fuel they're using, how much they're wasting (e.g. car model), etc. But that's too complicated to be feasible. Charging by how much you pump at one time is much simpler.

It's not as feasible to charge by how much someone consumes in a year. Otherwise the gas hogs could really pay for what they waste. It's much simpler to charge by how much your vehicle's gas tank holds.

Besides, this isn't a realistic proposal b/c it would never fly. It's just my $0.02.
Under your proposal, what's to keep someone from filling up half their tank at one station and then going accross the street to fill up the remainder?
 

booboobear

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Keebler Elf said:
You want to talk about points, well then let's talk about points. The price of a barrel of oil is at AN ALL TIME HIGH. Yet for some unfathomable reason you can't understand why this would raise the price of gasoline at the pumps. .
To put this whole thing in perspective I should never have tried to make a point with you . Anybody , anybody who would try and say he is ok with even paying more for gas is not worth talking to period. Your logic is we are such evil over consumers so let's punish the bad people for wanting to drive their cars with cheap gas. Let's instead give the money to the millionaires to buy more Rolls. Can.t argue with this brilliant logic. To use the word paranoid is ridiculous of course the price of a barrel of oil is at an all time high so of course the price of gas is high. You are such a genius to have figured that out. lLook in my business we just can't raise our prices because we want to only when manufacturing costs go up not because of speculation.
Just let me say I can't believe people like you exist who want to pay more that should have been my first clue. You sound like one of those activists who parade outside of city hall. Listen don't bother trying to convince me that we should pay more for gas I'm not interested.
 

ice_dog

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Jan 13, 2002
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Escohort said:
Keebler, I respect your opinion on all this but you have to remember that eventually we're gonna run out of oil anyways. Conserving fuel only delays the inevitable. What we need to do is find a better and more permanent source of fuel that's virtually endless and doesnt pollute. It'll be difficult but it can be done.
Alcohol/Ethanol is one idea and so is Hydrogen if they can find a way to stabilize it. Battery power is also a possibility.
First of all, conservation will reduce the demand which will drive the price down. It will also buy us more time to develop economic viable alternate source of energy.


As much as I hate to pay more for gas price, if this is what it takes to reduce the demand, I just have to bite the bullets. Gas prices are much lower in the US, in case you don't know.

For those who disagree, I don't think it is a case of igorance. It is a case of being selfish.
 

booboobear

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ice_dog said:
First of all, conservation will reduce the demand which will drive the price down. It will also buy us more time to develop economic viable alternate source of energy.


As much as I hate to pay more for gas price, if this is what it takes to reduce the demand, I just have to bite the bullets. Gas prices are much lower in the US, in case you don't know.

For those who disagree, I don't think it is a case of igorance. It is a case of being selfish.

I care as much about conserving as the next person but I think those who talk about conserving gas are kidding themselves.
We are mass consumers the car companies build thousands of cars every day and there are 100's of new drivers every week in Toronto. If we really cared about conserving we would take ttc or walk or bicycle. How often do you take a car when you could walk. High gas prices only benefit the rich.
 

mmouse

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Bear, what kind of car do you drive?
 

takeout44

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booboobear said:
... High gas prices only benefit the rich.

I don't get it. How do they benefit the rich? Don't we all pay the same amount at the pumps?

If you mean that they can buy more, consume more (if they choose to) then it could be a 'benefit' .... but they've always had that 'benefit' and not just where it involves gas.
 

booboobear

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takeout44 said:
I don't get it. How do they benefit the rich? Don't we all pay the same amount at the pumps?

If you mean that they can buy more, consume more (if they choose to) then it could be a 'benefit' .... but they've always had that 'benefit' and not just where it involves gas.

To be more specific high gas prices only benefit the people getting rich from oil and gas not rich people buying gas.
 

booboobear

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mmouse said:
Bear, what kind of car do you drive?
Just curious as to why you want to know. It has nothing to do with
my belief that we are getting screwed by the cartels .
Oh it gets decent mileage.
 
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