GAZA: STOP BLOCKADE AND WAR. Sign the Petition now!

[basketcase]

What is your point bro?
Are you saying Palestinian refugees are neither “Palestinian” nor "Refugee” anymore?
..

No, just pointing out the bull you are spewing.

How could you say millions of people who were born in that land ...

Not millions, only about 750,000


As I also pointed out, Palestinian refugees are overseen by a special UN organization who classifies refugees as all descendants of those who left what is now Israel (or the west bank or Gaza) no matter how many generations have passed.

All other refugees have different rules that deny that official refugee status to any of their descendants.

Tamils in Canada for example are a group that has been accepted as refugees but their children are not seen as refugees. They may be culturally and ideologically Tamil but do not have any official status. The same goes for Somalis, Rwandans, Tibetans, Bosnians, ..... and any other refugee in the world. (This of course is combined with the UN Refugee Convention that obligates countries accepting refugees to make every effort to integrate the refugees into the culture - another exception in the case of the Arab states hosting Palestinian refugees http://www.unhcr.org/basics.html)

People of Palestinian descent may choose to identify themselves as Palestinians but they should be aware that they are the only group to maintain special status. They should also have the same right of return as Jews do and they should be allowed to move to the Palestinian territories once they are eventually formed but none of those except those actually born there should have the choice to move to Israel and live under Israeli law..

 

[Aardvark154]

--India's official religion is Hinduism not Islam... Islam represents only 13% of there population.

So sorry I believe the second or third largest moslem population in the world lives in: India. By the Way India does not have a state religion.

The rest of your statement basicly says it doen't matter what you previously posted it's just blather.

 

[basketcase]

Muslim lands is an interesting idea, at least from the perspective of people living in what is effectively a Christian hemisphere where we still are allowed to freely practice our religion (or lack thereof).

As for US army bases on Muslim lands, how many are there univited by the host nation? Maybe you should take issue with the governments of those countries. Wasn't this a big part of Bin Laden's justification?

This evil scheme from the US seems like a horrible situation to me. (BTW, Canada can also be included as 'enduring' US military occupation.

 

[persis]

I'm reminded of one of the Lone Ranger jokes: "Who's this us Kemosabe." We know that you aren't in Iran - if you were you'd be dead. But apparently you "aren't one of us." Now, if one of us North American "First Boat" types made that statement about you. . ., oh Holy Hannah!

Us, yours....is just a figure of speech...
As for me... besides being a patriotic Iranian, I rather keep my options open with an open mind... taking side [blindly] therefore does not help my goals in Life

 

[Aardvark154]

Us, yours....is just a figure of speech...

Yup just a figure of speech. . . Would you like to buy a bridge or a prime piece of Florida Real Estate?

 

[scouser1]

People of Palestinian descent may choose to identify themselves as Palestinians but they should be aware that they are the only group to maintain special status. They should also have the same right of return as Jews do and they should be allowed to move to the Palestinian territories once they are eventually formed but none of those except those actually born there should have the choice to move to Israel and live under Israeli law..

ok so only those who were actually born in the land that is called Israel now will be allowed back, but Lenny from Flatbush was never born in Israel, why should he have the right to go back, build an illegal settlement under international law, refuse to serve in the military of the state that he says God gave him and live very nicely as a welfare case?

 

[persis]

Yup just a figure of speech. . . Would you like to buy a bridge or a prime piece of Florida Real Estate?

By the way, FYI…most of the countries that I’ve listed are of modern geopolitical borders... for example Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan & Turkmenistan were all part of Greater Iran [Persian Empire] that were lost to foreign interference and territorial encroachment of Russian & British Empires under the ruling Persian dynasty of Turkic descent, Qajar dynasty, that ruled Iran (Persia) from 1781 to 1925, I am sure they will all willingly amalgamate under there pervious name after all mullahs are disposed of.

 

[basketcase]

ok so only those who were actually born in the land that is called Israel now will be allowed back, but Lenny from Flatbush was never born in Israel, why should he have the right to go back, build an illegal settlement under international law, refuse to serve in the military of the state that he says God gave him and live very nicely as a welfare case?

For the same reason that you and my antecedents were allowed in Canada, because the country said they could.

 

[Aardvark154]

By the way, FYI…most of the countries that I’ve listed are of modern geopolitical borders... for example Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan & Turkmenistan were all part of Greater Iran [Persian Empire] that were lost to foreign interference and territorial encroachment of Russian & British Empires under the ruling Persian dynasty of Turkic descent, Qajar dynasty, that ruled Iran (Persia) from 1781 to 1925, I am sure they will all willingly amalgamate under there pervious name after all mullahs are disposed of.

Well, pun intended one could go back to the days of the Meads and the Persians. Somehow, I don't think that most Central Asian Republics, with large ethnic Russian minorities and the attitude of the Russian Government are likely to join some sort of Iranian Greater co-prosperity sphere anytime soon.

Actually this is a rather interesting, you apparently want to revert to Iranian boundaries which actually predate the Qajar dynasty and were never particularly well defined in the first place (somewhat like including Mongolia, Tibet, Vietnam etc. . . as having been part of various Chinese Empires), yet we have Cinelli, who wants to assume that ancient history is bunk and only early modern history counts.

 

[persis]

Well, pun intended one could go back to the days of the Meads and the Persians. Somehow, I don't think that most Central Asian Republics, with large ethnic Russian minorities and the attitude of the Russian Government are likely to join some sort of Iranian Greater co-prosperity sphere anytime soon.

Actually this is a rather interesting, you apparently want to revert to Iranian boundaries which actually predate the Qajar dynasty and were never particularly well defined in the first place (somewhat like including Mongolia, Tibet, Vietnam etc. . . as having been part of various Chinese Empires), yet we have Cinelli, who wants to assume that ancient history is bunk and only early modern history counts.

!!!!!
What are you talking about...man?

Iran lost most of these northern territories surrounding the Caspian Sea to the Imperial Russia not until 1828, at the end of the Russo-Persian Wars of 1826-1828 with the Treaty of Turkmenchay & the peace treaty of Gulistan and later not until 1881, with the Treaty of Akhal [Khwarezm = modern Uzbekistan] which was forced on Persia by Russia.

The populations of these regions are all primarily of Persian stock(settled largely around the capital) Azerbaijanis who are Shia and the Kurds who are Sunni & the Uzbeks who are a branch from the hardwood of Persia.
By the way, Russian Republic can do shit about it, for example Azerbaijanis always sided with Persia in her wars with Ottoman Empire even thought they both speak the same language.

 

[scouser1]

what about an international force going into the West Bank and Gaza to clear things up, the attacks on Israel would surely stop as a highly equipped and trained UN guided force would not be messed around with by Hamas, but the sticking point would be Israel would never in a million years allow this, as it would be full recognition that it is carrying out an illegal occupation/imprisonment of a population.

 

[TQM]

scouser1

You think you can find an international force willing to do this? Made up of who's troops?

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

what about an international force going into the West Bank and Gaza to clear things up, the attacks on Israel would surely stop as a highly equipped and trained UN guided force would not be messed around with by Hamas, but the sticking point would be Israel would never in a million years allow this, as it would be full recognition that it is carrying out an illegal occupation/imprisonment of a population.

Great idea!

I trust you're drawing on the examples of success from existing coalition forces in the ME region.

 

[Cinelli]

Palestinians break out from Gaza seige

this is crazy..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TocjkugWEEc

I hope they bust that whole wall down.

 

[DATYdude]

Yeah I agree, and I hope that Egypt takes over Gaza.

 

[Cinelli]

Tear down the Israeli American taxpayer funded portion of the wall also !

 

[Aardvark154]

Iran lost most of these northern territories surrounding the Caspian Sea to the Imperial Russia not until 1828, at the end of the Russo-Persian Wars of 1826-1828 with the Treaty of Turkmenchay & the peace treaty of Gulistan and later not until 1881, with the Treaty of Akhal [Khwarezm = modern Uzbekistan] which was forced on Persia by Russia.

The populations of these regions are all primarily of Persian stock(settled largely around the capital) Azerbaijanis who are Shia and the Kurds who are Sunni & the Uzbeks who are a branch from the hardwood of Persia.
By the way, Russian Republic can do shit about it.

You will find the world largely unrecognizable if you feel that 1828 wasn't some time ago.

Further, I believe you'd find that ethnic Uzbeks believe themselves to be a Turkic people speaking a Turkic language, now if you are actually speaking of Tajiks. . . who by the way see themselves more as Samanids than Persians.

I'm sure the people of the Central Asian Republics (the Near Abroad) would find fascinating your assertion that Iran exerts a greater influence over them than does Russia.

 

[slowandeasy]

Funny how people like cinilli forget that Gaza in 1967 was part of Egypt. When Egypt signed a peace deal - they where offered and refused to take back Gaza. Now their wall has been breached and they, Egypt, say they will close it soon.

So what the hell is Israel suppose to do here - allow missile attacks with no retaliation - not a bad idea if your part of the push them into the sea crowd.

So what if Israel is blocking the Gaza - as we see clearly now - Egypt has a border that they could send materials through but for what ever reason choose not to.


bbk

Very good post.. and I totally agree.

Here is the one thing that I am confused about..

Was the wall between Gaza and Egypt was put up by the Israelis?

I don't see the problem with Israel or any other country putting up a wall or fence if it is not happy the border situation.

Israel has pulled out of Gaza right?

Interesting to see if Egypt puts that wall back up?

 

[slowandeasy]

Further more due to geopolitical situation of the last 3 centuries "Big Game" most of these countries have been denied of there normal, gradual but predictable modernization due to western colonization and imperialism.
In another word, it has not been in the best interest of the West for these countries to socially & politically modernize.

So what have the citizens of these "occupied" countries done to modernize themselves? What happens when these countries are given the opportunity to help themselves?

 

[basketcase]

what about an international force going into the West Bank and Gaza to clear things up, the attacks on Israel would surely stop as a highly equipped and trained UN guided force would not be messed around with by Hamas, but the sticking point would be Israel would never in a million years allow this, as it would be full recognition that it is carrying out an illegal occupation/imprisonment of a population.

1. The only reason that the Egypt/Gaza border has been closed is that the EU forces who were supposed to be monitoring it felt that their security was at stake. They were/are afraid of Hamas.

2. Look how well the UN monitors in Lebanon have worked. They haven't enforced anything and have even been targeted by locals on several occasions.

3. The UN will refuse to give any force authority to act like they refused as the Lebanon ceasefire was negotiated.

4. TQM's point - who's going to do it? The UN won't, Nato won't, the EU won't. Even the Arab League won't (not that Israel would accept that).


Your last line is just utter garbage. Israel would give up the land lickety split if they could safely, just like they would be quite happy with Egypt taking responsibility for Gaza.