guess what, it's ok to now take a concealed weapon to school
- Thread starter kooley
- Start date
Idk. Not really sure where i stand on this. This is something i've known about years ago in junior high, hs. Surprised its only making this much noise now.
But i guess with all the violence that we have these days, along with terrorism and everything and ppl being paranoid/scared or whatnot, its only right that ppl , mostly parents i guess, are concerned now. If the violence wasnt as high as it is now, do you think this issue would be this big a deal?
One way I look at it. For ppl who say they can/will use it as weapon to hurt someboday, what about the hundreds and thousands of Sikhs students who have gone thru the school systems years before 2006 without any mention or concerns of their Kirpins.
But i guess with all the violence that we have these days, along with terrorism and everything and ppl being paranoid/scared or whatnot, its only right that ppl , mostly parents i guess, are concerned now. If the violence wasnt as high as it is now, do you think this issue would be this big a deal?
One way I look at it. For ppl who say they can/will use it as weapon to hurt someboday, what about the hundreds and thousands of Sikhs students who have gone thru the school systems years before 2006 without any mention or concerns of their Kirpins.
jay19 said:It is a possibility, but until that happens, we have kids with GUNS going to schools and having shootouts, pistol whipping other kids that we need to worry about first and foremost. These are things that are actually happening in our schools, with enough evidence that laws need to be changed to punish those individuals. A student being harmed with a Kirpan is just an allegation we are making.
zanner69 said:if you wanted to injure someone at school there are many objects available to do so!!!
even a pencil can injure someone!!!!
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Totally agree. Ppl are only making allegations of what MAY happen. Why not concentrate on what IS already happening and what IS hurting the students and kids right now. We cant even solve the problems we have now.
Why dont we start with, ohhhh idk.... say bullying?
You can ignore a child being bullied and sexually propositioned at 7, but be more worried about what MAY happen to someones religious piece.
those are some nice chicks in your sig lineEsco! said:This is pushing things way too far.
I'm gonna start my own religion that allows you to walk around with a bazooka!!!
You can ignore a child being bullied and sexually propositioned at 7, but be more worried about what MAY happen to someones religious piece.[/QUOTE]Milhouse
One has nothing to do with other .....those issues have plenty of care and concerns ! ...Theres always room for improvement when we are trying to keep children safer in school .....It starts with education from parents first to explain the reasoning of the kirpin so that the kid doesnt feel threatened by his ignorance to make a uneducated move .
my concern earliar was if some punk ass picked on the boy using force and that word (ingenuity )_poped in his head ........but according to the religion this will never happen ..So all we can do is hope for the best !
One has nothing to do with other .....those issues have plenty of care and concerns ! ...Theres always room for improvement when we are trying to keep children safer in school .....It starts with education from parents first to explain the reasoning of the kirpin so that the kid doesnt feel threatened by his ignorance to make a uneducated move .
my concern earliar was if some punk ass picked on the boy using force and that word (ingenuity )_poped in his head ........but according to the religion this will never happen ..So all we can do is hope for the best !
From the SCC decision:
In his motion, Mr. Multani asked the court to declare that the council of commissioners’ decision was of no force or effect and that Gurbaj Singh had a right to wear his kirpan to school if it was sealed and sewn up inside his clothing. He submitted that this would represent a reasonable accommodation to the freedom of religion and right to equality guaranteed in ss. 3 and 10 of the Charter of human rights and freedoms, R.S.Q., c. C‑12 (“Quebec Charter”), and ss. 2 and 15 of the Canadian Charter.
7 On April 16, 2002, Tellier J. ordered an interlocutory injunction and authorized Gurbaj Singh to wear his kirpan, provided that he complied with the conditions initially proposed by the CSMB, until a final decision was rendered in the case. On May 17, 2002, Grenier J. of the Superior Court granted Mr. Multani’s motion for a declaratory judgment, declared the council of commissioners’ decision to be null and of no force or effect, and authorized Gurbaj Singh to wear his kirpan under certain conditions.
In his motion, Mr. Multani asked the court to declare that the council of commissioners’ decision was of no force or effect and that Gurbaj Singh had a right to wear his kirpan to school if it was sealed and sewn up inside his clothing. He submitted that this would represent a reasonable accommodation to the freedom of religion and right to equality guaranteed in ss. 3 and 10 of the Charter of human rights and freedoms, R.S.Q., c. C‑12 (“Quebec Charter”), and ss. 2 and 15 of the Canadian Charter.
7 On April 16, 2002, Tellier J. ordered an interlocutory injunction and authorized Gurbaj Singh to wear his kirpan, provided that he complied with the conditions initially proposed by the CSMB, until a final decision was rendered in the case. On May 17, 2002, Grenier J. of the Superior Court granted Mr. Multani’s motion for a declaratory judgment, declared the council of commissioners’ decision to be null and of no force or effect, and authorized Gurbaj Singh to wear his kirpan under certain conditions.
Out of curiosity...
If an orthodox sikh has to go to jail or has to fly in an airplane where they do not allow knives, is he commiting some kind of religious sin by being without his kirpin? Just curious to see if not being with a kirpin is not really a big deal and not a requirement but just a suggestion. I am Orthodox Christian and there is no requirement to wear a cross just a strong suggestion.
What I am getting at, if anyone really knows, if the Kirpin is just a suggestion or simply the final part of a proper uniform for a Sikh,and not a mortal sin... does the risk of a kirpin being used as a type of dagger in school not outweigh this suggestion or uniform requirement?
Just thinking out loud here I have not made up my mind yet on this issue. I think that if I wanted to get into a fight at school I would rather have a chair, bottle, bat or gun...a dull kirpin would probably be my last choice
If an orthodox sikh has to go to jail or has to fly in an airplane where they do not allow knives, is he commiting some kind of religious sin by being without his kirpin? Just curious to see if not being with a kirpin is not really a big deal and not a requirement but just a suggestion. I am Orthodox Christian and there is no requirement to wear a cross just a strong suggestion.
What I am getting at, if anyone really knows, if the Kirpin is just a suggestion or simply the final part of a proper uniform for a Sikh,and not a mortal sin... does the risk of a kirpin being used as a type of dagger in school not outweigh this suggestion or uniform requirement?
Just thinking out loud here I have not made up my mind yet on this issue. I think that if I wanted to get into a fight at school I would rather have a chair, bottle, bat or gun...a dull kirpin would probably be my last choice
I'm not exactly comparing the 2 incidents , just stating that there are other things i think we should be worried more about.Alexis696969 said:One has nothing to do with other .....those issues have plenty of care and concerns ! ...Theres always room for improvement when we are trying to keep children safer in school .....It starts with education from parents first to explain the reasoning of the kirpin so that the kid doesnt feel threatened by his ignorance to make a uneducated move .
my concern earliar was if some punk ass picked on the boy using force and that word (ingenuity )_poped in his head ........but according to the religion this will never happen ..So all we can do is hope for the best !
Issues that are major problems right NOW and that we havent seem to have an answer for. Kids are still being from being bullied to sexual abused AT the school. And these are not the first time its happened. Its lke every once in a while something pops up.
Therefore,I dont necessaryily agree that we give all those issue plenty of care and concern. If it did, the same things wouldnt keep on happening..
Like i said earlier, i dont understand why ppl are making such a big issue now and not 1,3,5 etc years ago.
Its true what someone said that earlier, anything can be used as a weapon if you really wanted to, ex.pencil. and how about tools in shop class, like hammers, screwdrivers etc. Or bats from gym class.
Why arent we worried about those items? I guess we will be after this issue?
I've known/heard more incidesnt involving other items than of those involving Kirpins. Dont think i've ever heard of any for that matter.
Kids can bring any kinds of knife with them if they wanted to for protectoin or other purposes at any time. Anything being done about that?
Problem is, those items mentioned are not designed to be a weapon, per se. A knife of this nature IS.....I mean, if you hold down your victim, and hold it just right, a piece of PAPER can be used as a weapon......milhouse said:.....its true what someone said that earlier, anything can be used as a weapon if you really wanted to, ex.pencil. and how about tools in shop class, like hammers, screwdrivers etc. Or bats from gym class.
Why arent we worried about those items?
On a side note: I thought shop classes were a thing of the past due to legal issues?
Sure, kids will always be sneaking weapons into schools, those kids will ALWAYS find a way but now we're giving them permission to. THAT'S the issue here....
I can also see some bringing up the reverse discrimination here, how come only SIKHS have permission to bring knives to school? And if you don't think some smartass teenager isn't thinking of this right now, you're kidding yourself.
I understand your point about not those items not being DESIGNED for the purpose as a weapon. So what about a knife from food class, whats that class called again? mmm those tacos. It mite have been made/use for food, but its still a knife. And it has in the past been used and will/still can be used as weapons.tboy said:Problem is, those items mentioned are not designed to be a weapon, per se. A knife of this nature IS.....I mean, if you hold down your victim, and hold it just right, a piece of PAPER can be used as a weapon......
On a side note: I thought shop classes were a thing of the past due to legal issues?
Sure, kids will always be sneaking weapons into schools, those kids will ALWAYS find a way but now we're giving them permission to. THAT'S the issue here....
I can also see some bringing up the reverse discrimination here, how come only SIKHS have permission to bring knives to school? And if you don't think some smartass teenager isn't thinking of this right now, you're kidding yourself.
Of course the reverse disc. will come up, thats kinda my point with these items as well. Thats why we cant just loook at 1 of these thing/item at a time. Everything is somehow going to be connected to something else.
I think these thoughts are just the nature of being a teen. Havent we all tried to get around/by rules in the past.
BTW, is there really no more shop class??
I knew a kid in my class who accidentally had his hand on the belt sander while on. Nasty sight.
Shop classes are still around, as are auto shops...i just graduated 2 years ago from high school and all of the machine shops were still there and still are to this day...
The main thing here I feel is that if you think other teenagers will question why only Sikhs can wear the Kirpan to school, then they simply need to be informed why they are allowed to. It is their religious and cultural identity, it is what they have been taught to keep and hold pride in. It's simply a matter of making people that are ignorant of the topic informed. That is the only solution to someone questioning this decision.
The main thing here I feel is that if you think other teenagers will question why only Sikhs can wear the Kirpan to school, then they simply need to be informed why they are allowed to. It is their religious and cultural identity, it is what they have been taught to keep and hold pride in. It's simply a matter of making people that are ignorant of the topic informed. That is the only solution to someone questioning this decision.
Now I know there will be arguments stating that the following isn't the same, but, does anyone remember way back when when Tampa had a court case where a kid brought a gun to school? The problem was that he had concealed it. There was a law on the FLA books that said guns could be carried as long as they were visible ie: in a holster.
I remember the front page of the sun with a grade 10er with a .38 in a holster on his hip walking to class....Anyhow, I believe they recinded the law or something because I haven't heard anything more about it.
(we're talking like 10 yrs ago or more).
Anyhow, I totally understand the religious symbolism of it but if the dagger is only symbolic, why can't he have a miniature version or a placebo? Sorry, but there is no way anyone will convince me that the right decision was made to not only allow, but give the right to, someone to carry a weapon to school.
yeah that's right, a weapon, not a cooking utensil, not a pencil or pen, not a baseball bat, a weapon.
I remember the front page of the sun with a grade 10er with a .38 in a holster on his hip walking to class....Anyhow, I believe they recinded the law or something because I haven't heard anything more about it.
(we're talking like 10 yrs ago or more).
Anyhow, I totally understand the religious symbolism of it but if the dagger is only symbolic, why can't he have a miniature version or a placebo? Sorry, but there is no way anyone will convince me that the right decision was made to not only allow, but give the right to, someone to carry a weapon to school.
yeah that's right, a weapon, not a cooking utensil, not a pencil or pen, not a baseball bat, a weapon.
