Hitler ordered Luftwaffe to spare Blackpool

[jwmorrice]

Original URL: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/23/blackpool_plan/
Hitler ordered Luftwaffe to spare Blackpool
Oh we do like to be beside the Sieg Heil!

By Lester Haines
Posted in Bootnotes, 23rd February 2009 13:27 GMT

The reason Hitler didn't do the decent thing and order his Luftwaffe to reduce Blackpool to smouldering rubble has now been revealed: The Fuhrer wanted the resort as his "personal playground", as the Daily Mail puts it.

Adolf's chilling plan to watch triumphant troops goosestep down the Golden Mile before hoisting a swastika flag atop the Blackpool Tower is explained in documents recovered from an old German military base.

The papers also include details of how paratroopers would take the town from the air, descending en masse into Blackpool's Stanley Park, chosen because "the layout of paths in its ornate Italian Gardens was unmistakable from the air".

As the Daily Mail notes, the scheme made little military sense since Blackpool was a centre of Wellington bomber production and a favourite haunt of soldiers on leave. It was furthermore, as anyone who's ever stayed there can attest, the main garrison for legendarily obstreperous B'n'B landlords and ladies who, had Operation Sealion gone ahead, would surely have given even crack Panzer divisions a run for their money.

Elaine Smith, chairman of Blackpool's Civic Trust, said: "These maps will be the source of much interest in the town, particularly to those who lived here through the Second World War. It had been known that Hitler intended to use Blackpool as his personal playground after what he hoped would be a successful invasion on England and the end of war.

"We did escape a lot of the bombing, despite the fact so many troops spent time in the town and there were major aircraft manufacturing factories here. He probably wanted to keep the resort exactly as it was so he could enjoy it as Chancellor of Britain."

The documents were salvaged from Germany by publisher Michael Cole. He told the Mail: "They have immense historical significance as they are some of the last surviving remnants of invasion material." ®

 

[Rockslinger]

Not familiar with the Blackpool situation, but the biggest mystery (at least to me anyway) is why Hitler didn't order the destruction of the Allied troops at Dunkirk.

 

[Aardvark154]

Not familiar with the Blackpool situation, but the biggest mystery (at least to me anyway) is why Hitler didn't order the destruction of the Allied troops at Dunkirk.

There is a great deal of speculation (and it is not a topic that particularly interests me) but the two consensus theories seem to be: 1) that Von Rundstedt convinced him that German armour had to be conserved for the attack on France proper. 2) that he believed that Great Britain could be persuaded to conclude an peace treaty and might even as a fellow Germanic people be persuaded to ally with Germany to invade Russia.

 

[RayFinkel]

 

[lonecoxxman]

Not familiar with the Blackpool situation, but the biggest mystery (at least to me anyway) is why Hitler didn't order the destruction of the Allied troops at Dunkirk.

From what I've read it seemed Hitler felt he had an inadequate understanding of the british. That may have had something to do with it.

 

[mandrill]

Not familiar with the Blackpool situation, but the biggest mystery (at least to me anyway) is why Hitler didn't order the destruction of the Allied troops at Dunkirk.

1. Blackpool is on the extreme Northeast of England and thus was at the extreme range of Luftwaffe's bombers. The increased flight time over English air space meant increased exposure to RAF night fighters and flak and an increased chance of navigational error and German aircraft getting lost and crashing. If Hitler did not know about the Wellington bomber factory - quite possible - then Blackpool would have been an expensive and useless bomber target.

2. Dunkirk. The French army was still sort of alive and had to be destroyed. Tanks get expended very quickly and easily in intense street fighting. So the military argument not to commit is a rational one. No-one could have predicted at the time that Britain would fight on as the even the Chamberlain cabinet was in favour of capitulation. Remember Churchill was not yet PM.

Bsides, the Germans would have had their balls kicked in at Dunkirk. The Royal Navy was the most powerful fighting force in the world in 1940, with maybe the exception of the USN. If the need arose, the Navy would have anchored a few dozen major battleships offshore and fired the monster guns over open sites at close range on the Germans. That would have pretty much been the end of the panzer divisions.

 

[The Houdini]

1. Blackpool is on the extreme Northeast of England and thus was at the extreme range of Luftwaffe's bombers. The increased flight time over English air space meant increased exposure to RAF night fighters and flak and an increased chance of navigational error and German aircraft getting lost and crashing. If Hitler did not know about the Wellington bomber factory - quite possible - then Blackpool would have been an expensive and useless bomber target.

2. Dunkirk. The French army was still sort of alive and had to be destroyed. Tanks get expended very quickly and easily in intense street fighting. So the military argument not to commit is a rational one. No-one could have predicted at the time that Britain would fight on as the even the Chamberlain cabinet was in favour of capitulation. Remember Churchill was not yet PM.

Bsides, the Germans would have had their balls kicked in at Dunkirk. The Royal Navy was the most powerful fighting force in the world in 1940, with maybe the exception of the USN. If the need arose, the Navy would have anchored a few dozen major battleships offshore and fired the monster guns over open sites at close range on the Germans. That would have pretty much been the end of the panzer divisions.

Don't discount the fire power of the German navy. Their U boats early on in the war in particular were extremely effective. It took the Allies a couple of years to develop an effective strategy against them.

There were so many Allied Ships being sunk by U boats that there was an actual halt of supply ships coming from the US untill a proper line of defence was devised.

As to The Royal navy using Battle ships to wipe out the Panzer divisions. They were busy rescuing 100,000's of desperately trapped troops. Plus The Germans had Air superiority at the time. The JU 87 Stuka dive bombers would have taken out all those Battle ships in no time.

Also, Herman Goring convinced Hitler at the time that the Luftwaffe would be able to finish the job at Dukirk.

 

[Mr. Lucky]

I believe the Russians have kept Hitlers skull head when the Germans went down.

 

[lonecoxxman]

1. Blackpool is on the extreme Northeast of England and thus was at the extreme range of Luftwaffe's bombers.

This is not true! Blackpool is off the northwestern shore of England. Its not even at the extreme for there is still quite a distance north to get to the scottish border.

 

[johnhenrygalt]

2. Dunkirk. The French army was still sort of alive and had to be destroyed. Tanks get expended very quickly and easily in intense street fighting. So the military argument not to commit is a rational one. No-one could have predicted at the time that Britain would fight on as the even the Chamberlain cabinet was in favour of capitulation. Remember Churchill was not yet PM.

Churchill was PM at the time of the Dunquerque evacuation. The King sent for him to form a government on May 10, 1940.

As for the German halt, the German armoured columns were at the end of their supply tether, a further advance was considered to be too risky. The Germans may also have wanted to tempt the British Navy into the Channel to cover the evacuation operation in order to attack them with German aircraft.

 

[Dark Chimera]

Allies also did some interesting none bombing

Ford manufacturing plants were located in Germany.

Allied bombers went to pains to avoid bombing them.

IBM sold precursor to computer to Germany so they could keep track of Jews they were exterminating

 

[LancsLad]

Not familiar with the Blackpool situation, but the biggest mystery (at least to me anyway) is why Hitler didn't order the destruction of the Allied troops at Dunkirk.

My Dad was there, not a particularly enjoyable experience, gave a lot of English troops payback incentive when they returned Jun44.


.

 

[Rockslinger]

Also, Herman Goring convinced Hitler at the time that the Luftwaffe would be able to finish the job at Dukirk.

Heard that the RAF kill ratio was 4 Nazi planes to each one of their own. Of course, the same RAF later won the Battle of Britain.

 

[mandrill]

This is not true! Blackpool is off the northwestern shore of England. Its not even at the extreme for there is still quite a distance north to get to the scottish border.

Oops! Meant to say Northwestern. As the Germans were flying out of Norway as well as France, Blackpool was about as far away from German bases as you could get.

 

[danmand]

Oops! Meant to say Northwestern. As the Germans were flying out of Norway as well as France, Blackpool was about as far away from German bases as you could get.

Might be a factyor in the british locating airplane factories there.

 

[mandrill]

Don't discount the fire power of the German navy. Their U boats early on in the war in particular were extremely effective. It took the Allies a couple of years to develop an effective strategy against them.

As to The Royal navy using Battle ships to wipe out the Panzer divisions. They were busy rescuing 100,000's of desperately trapped troops. Plus The Germans had Air superiority at the time. The JU 87 Stuka dive bombers would have taken out all those Battle ships in no time.

Also, Herman Goring convinced Hitler at the time that the Luftwaffe would be able to finish the job at Dukirk.

Well, the battleships weren't doing much rescuing. Nor were they brought south into the Channel for exactly the reasons you mention. They would have been heavily attacked by U-boats and stukas. However, the RAF was competitive with the Luftwaffe and the Germans still had to deal with the French Air Force. So it would have been a bloodbath had the Germans pushed forward.

And the RN MASSIVELY outgunned the Kriegsmarine's surface elements. Aside from a half-dozen big ships - Bismarck, Scharnhorst and a handful of others - the Germans had nothing on the surface. The British could have lost half their major ships and still ruled the waves.

If push came to shove, the RN would have committed the its main elements and taken the losses, I think.

 

[jwmorrice]

Well, the battleships weren't doing much rescuing. Nor were they brought south into the Channel for exactly the reasons you mention. They would have been heavily attacked by U-boats and stukas. However, the RAF was competitive with the Luftwaffe and the Germans still had to deal with the French Air Force. So it would have been a bloodbath had the Germans pushed forward.

And the RN MASSIVELY outgunned the Kriegsmarine's surface elements. Aside from a half-dozen big ships - Bismarck, Scharnhorst and a handful of others - the Germans had nothing on the surface. The British could have lost half their major ships and still ruled the waves.

If push came to shove, the RN would have committed the its main elements and taken the losses, I think.

A few observations:

The Royal Navy didn't have a single modern capital ship at the time unless one counts the strangely designed Nelson and Rodney. During WWII, only the KGV class battleships were built and commissioned. Obviously it was important to preserve as many of the aged battleshps and battlecruisers as possible to guard against surface raiders. I doubt that any one of those ships would have stood much of a chance against Germany's Bismarck or Tirpitz.

Neither the Bismarck nor the Tirpitz were commissioned at the time of Dunkirk. As for the Scharnhorst and the Gneisenau, neither were true capital ships as they were fitted with 11" guns as a main armament.

See http://web.ukonline.co.uk/aj.cashmore/britain/british-dread.html and http://web.ukonline.co.uk/aj.cashmore/germany/german-dread.html

jwm

 

[The Houdini]

Heard that the RAF kill ratio was 4 Nazi planes to each one of their own. Of course, the same RAF later won the Battle of Britain.

I don't believe that's true. With the Germans Folke Wolf 190's in particular, and the Messerschmitts 109's they were top dogs over the Spit Fire's and even the P-47 Thunderbolts. Only with the introduction of th e P-51 Mustang could the Allies finally begin to really hurt the Luftwaffe. Especially in support of B-17 Bombers formations over German territory.

 

[big dogie]

ever been to Blackpool? bombing would be an improvement..

b d

 

[mandrill]

Heard that the RAF kill ratio was 4 Nazi planes to each one of their own. Of course, the same RAF later won the Battle of Britain.

All air forces massively overclaimed kills on the other guy. In 1940, the 109's would have had a qualitative edge over the hurri, but not the spit. The LW would also have an edge in experience and tactics as many of their senior pilots had flown for the "Kondor Legion" in the Spanish Civil War.

Losses were probably about even over the course of a campaign, or even slightly favouring the LW in fighter-on-fighter combat.

4:1 is the sort of kill rate that totally annihilates the other side in a couple of weeks. The US achieved this sort of rate against the Japanese in 44-45, as did the LW over the Russians in 41-42.