I am getting tired of the rampant anti-israeli comments on this board
- Thread starter oneclassyguy
- Start date
Just to get back to the original quote. Off course, the Palestinian resistance in any form will be considered as terrorism, depending on which side of the political divide you are on. The following text depicts how the Jewish groups resisted the British prior to the creation of Israel and Palestine:oneclassyguy said:
"Despite American, Jewish, and international pressure and the recommendations of the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, the new Labour Party government of Prime Minister Clement Atlee and his foreign minister, Ernest Bevin, continued to enforce the policy articulated in the White Paper. British adamancy on immigration radicalized the Yishuv. Under Ben-Gurion's direction, the Jewish Agency decided in October 1945 to unite with Jewish dissident groups in a combined rebellion against the British administration in Palestine. The combined Jewish resistance movement organized illegal immigration and kidnapping of British officials in Palestine and sabotaged the British infrastructure in Palestine. In response Bevin ordered a crackdown on the Haganah and arrested many of its leaders. While the British concentrated their efforts on the Haganah, the Irgun and Lehi carried out terrorist attacks against British forces, the most spectacular of which was the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem in July 1946. The latter event led Ben-Gurion to sever his relationship with the Irgun and Lehi."
The members of Irgun, Haganah and Lehi were considered as patriots by majority of the Jews and terrorists by the British. Same parallels as with Hamas and Hezbollah. Menachem Begin, the leader of the Lehi group, who carried out the atrocities actually became the Prime Minister of Israel. So it is really important to put things into perspective when crying foul. Even today the right-wing Israelis are celebrating the bombing of the King David hotel, much to the anger of the British. Please copy and paste the link below:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2277717,00.html
Yes both sides had their terrorists before partition. The the Nazi/Mufti of Jerusalem is a good counter point. There were Arab massacres/attacks on Jews in 1920 (mostly on defenseless religious types who can trace their history ther back hundreds of years) which prompted the formation of Haganah. The formation of Lehi/Irgun/Stern followed several other massacres/attack on Jews which recieved little help from the British authorities. While they were acting, the majority of Jews, including the Jewish Agency, denounced their actions. (there was no Arab dennouncement of the Arab "militias" such as the mufti's Holy War Army with it's commander Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni-who had Yasser Arafat as a personal bodyguard-who attacked Jewish settlements and any Arabs they disagreed with, the "Arab Liberation Army" and the British Trained and led Arab Legion, all of whom commited massacres of civilians in the run up to the war) The existance of Irgun came to an end when they were incorporated into Israel's mainstream.
Yes there is a major parallel here as Hezbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad et. al. should have been incorporated into their societies years ago but as with the refugees, that would not serve the greater purposes of the elimination of the "zionist entity"
Yes there is a major parallel here as Hezbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad et. al. should have been incorporated into their societies years ago but as with the refugees, that would not serve the greater purposes of the elimination of the "zionist entity"
And who said that Jews have been the only ones?allaboutben said:
What is it that you think I don't understand about the immense suffering of so many others, too?
And who has been talking about bad, worse, worst... except you? And how do you know so much that you can pronounce judgments about these things?
And, in the context of this discussion, what difference does it make who has had it worst?
Or are you saying that if (God forbid!) your children get run over by a car, I should comfort you by saying "Don't worry about it... many others have had their children run over too"?
What is your point... if you have one? Why repeat what has already been acknowledged?
Perry
Perry Mason said:
Read the original letter. It will explain my point. But you're clearly blinded by a similar viewpoint of that letter. I cant help you there. I'm just stating that Jewish people always whine about their own persecution as if they have been the only ones persecuted. If you cant gather that from the letter's tone, well, move on.
Where does the letter say that Jews are the only ones who have been persecuted?allaboutben said:
It's you.allaboutben said:
Perry
Its easy. You cant see the forest for all the trees. You cant understand.Perry Mason said:A non sequitur.
Perhaps someone else can understand you.
I don't.
Perry
You have to bear in mind that ever since the Bale Conference in Switzerland in 1897, the Jews were proclaiming a nation for the Jews in Palestine.In 1902, Herzl (the Jewish Leader) formed another delegation to meet with the Sultan Abdul Hameed a second time after he attempted to convince him in 1896. The Sultan refused to meet with him, so they went to the Prime Minister Tahsin Basha with their suggestions. They offered the repayment of the entire debt of the Ottoman government which were to the extent of twenty three million gold English pounds, and to build a fleet for the protection of the Ottoman empire costing two hundred and thirty million gold francs, and to offer an interest free loan to the value of thirty five million gold lira to revive the treasury. All these offers were in return for permission by the Sultan to the Jews to establish a Jewish nation in Palestine; that is to sell the lives and livelihood of the Palestinian people and the holy land for these offers. Sultan Abdul Hameed rejected all these offers. This offer really made the Palestinians suspicious of the Jewish motives. Also, the Palestinians and the Arabs were the ones to fight with the British in order to end the reign of the Ottoman Empire. The Jews were not very proactive in that conflict. I am not condoning the acts of brutality and massacre by the Mufti, but am making everyone aware that the Israelis did commit acts of genocide as well. In 1948 the Jews claimed the establishment of a state for themselves over the land of Palestine and called it Israel. Hundreds of thousands of Muslims were forced out of Palestine under the military pressure of Jewish terrorist groups such as the Irgun, Levi, and Haganah, which were financed and armed by the US Jewry. Many of the Palestinians were killed and this under the watchful eye of the Israeli leaders at that time.basketcase said:
Unbelieveable -
Just another example of what is going on and the problem with dealing with a Terrorist group that will stop at nothing to achieve their ends. When they bomb a Toronto subway with your family member on it let's see how charitable you will be. I can guarantee no Isreali will walk onto the Yonge subway and blow himself up!!!!!!
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=21956_Reuters_Doctoring_Photos_from_Beirut&only
Just another example of what is going on and the problem with dealing with a Terrorist group that will stop at nothing to achieve their ends. When they bomb a Toronto subway with your family member on it let's see how charitable you will be. I can guarantee no Isreali will walk onto the Yonge subway and blow himself up!!!!!!
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=21956_Reuters_Doctoring_Photos_from_Beirut&only
From your stupid little link are you assuming that there is no bombing in Lebanon? The 700 + civilian deaths do not exist even when broadcast by Pro-Israeli CNN and admitted by Israel? What has the Toronto bombings got to do with Hezbollah? OIC, lets stereotype all the Muslims including all who do reside in Toronto. They must all be subway bombers then. You do not know what you are talking about. You need to go back to school to learn some History and Geography for that matter!!drrogers said:
What are you talking about
2. Where did I mention Hezbollah or Muslims - I referred to terrorists
Stop reading your biases into my posts -
Thank you for the suggestion of my returnining to school - I appreciate your concern.
1. Where did I say there are no bombings - this link merely points to the tactics that anti-israeli proponents will go to to get out their message.bver_hunter said:
2. Where did I mention Hezbollah or Muslims - I referred to terrorists
Stop reading your biases into my posts -
Thank you for the suggestion of my returnining to school - I appreciate your concern.
I have no clue what the relevance of most of this is. Yes the Jews were trying to get a homeland. Does this in some way justify the attacks on Jews for 30 years before the partition.bver_hunter said:
If you want to talk about helping the west, the Jews volunteered and served in a transport division called the Zion Mule Corp and served at Gallipoli as they were not allowed to serve on the Palestine front. This later became the Jewish Brigade that had thousands of Palestinian Jews volunteerig and served in the Jordan Valley at the Battle of Jerusalem and the Battle of Meguido. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Legion
In world war 2, three times more Jews than Arabs volunteered in Palestine and a Jewish Brigade was eventually formed that served in Egypt, North Africa, and Italy. (at the same time, the Mufti of Jerusalem had declared an anti-allies jihad and organized an Muslim army in the Balkans FOR THE NAZIS) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Brigade
I guess the go back to school could apply to you as well.
The existance of Israel was declared by the UN as well as Israel. Yes, Deir Yasin and the rumours that followed caused many of the Arab Palestinians to flee but you must also credit the voices of Arab leaders telling them to leave for their safety and the would be able to return in a couple weeks. And yes, many Palestininias were killed, a large number of them fighting against the Jews. An even larger number died in the refugee camps when the surrounding Arab nations refused to help them or integrate them into their societies, forever to be used for propoganda. I would also disagree with Haganah being a terrorist force unless you include defending settlements from Arab attacks as terror.
The problem is the U.S. not the Israelis. George treats Israel as the 51st state and this biased favoritism really pisses the Arabs and the Iranians off, not to mention a lot of other peoples.
He refers to Arab resistance as "terrorism." It's no more terrorism than the Israelis who started off bombing the British. The Israelis generally do a great PR job,but this time their true colours are showing and they really aren't much defferent from Hamas or Hezbollah.
The U.S. had better become more understanding of the Arab concerns and show a more even-handed approach. The Arabs are proving to be better fighters than in the past and further militarism will only lead to more chance of world conflagration.
He refers to Arab resistance as "terrorism." It's no more terrorism than the Israelis who started off bombing the British. The Israelis generally do a great PR job,but this time their true colours are showing and they really aren't much defferent from Hamas or Hezbollah.
The U.S. had better become more understanding of the Arab concerns and show a more even-handed approach. The Arabs are proving to be better fighters than in the past and further militarism will only lead to more chance of world conflagration.
Similarly, I appreciate your concern for our families here in "vulnerable" Toronto. Then who said that we all do not denounce terrorism in any form, whether it be Al Qaida, or the aerial so called "measured" bombing of civilians and infra-structure of another country. What has a bombing in Toronto involving our families as victims got to do with it? Which terrorists are you implying, since you have to mention that it will not be Jewish?? Maybe you are talking about the Crypts, the KKK, and drug gangs and all their hand-guns?? Are they now going to start using bombing tactics??drrogers said:
Lots of Arab children and women were slaughtered by the Jewish terrorists and that is not right. Where did you get thirty years of attacks on Jews, and at no time were there attacks on Palestinians by Jews? See the thing is you only condemn atrocities from one side i.e the Muslims and not the Jews. Why decide to form a homeland in a country which was thousands of miles away from each distinct ethnic Jewish group? Why not in the Kalahari desert? There was even talk of settling the Jews in East Africa - believe it or not. To form this homeland you have to uproot the natives that already live there. Off course I see some relevance if the Jews were somehow repeatedly trying to bribe the Turks to carve up a homeland at the cost of the indigenious Palestinians that lived there. Then there were waves of Jews who immigrated illegally (not legally) to Palestine, deliberately to make up a substantial proportion of the population. Especially at a time when they numbered only a few thousand at the turn of the century. Look at today's USA. Are they prepared to tolerate illegal immigration from Mexico and rest of South America. This inspite of the people only coming in to live the American dream, and not create a new homeland. Do you expect no resentment from that? I am not saying that it was right to kill the Jews as a result of these events You showed me a link of 500 Jews that fought the Turks, whereas thousands of Arab volunteers actually lost their lives in the first world war. You keep on repeating about the Mufti all the time, and somehow pretend that the atrocities committed by the Haganah were justified. They were both criminal organisations. The Transjordan Legion (including Palestinian units) helped the allies along with a number, of North African Muslim legions in driving out the Germans from North Africa, and defeating the Vichy Government. Where on earth do you get the 3 times more Jews than Muslims serving in world war 2? Perhaps you need to go to a school that also teaches you the facts and not biases. Even today the ex PM Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel has been celebrating the terrorist bombing of the King David Hotel (carried out by another ex PM Menachim Begin) in which 95 mainly innocent British citizens including women and children. That is class is it not? Do you condone or condemn it?basketcase said:
http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/his_palestine.html
..the truth is as Jews had become succesful in Western countries, in some cases haveing to face years of discrimination.
They had the financial resoures to to get those Western countries to support the creation of Isreal.
Those Western countries of course had their own agendas in helping them and neither really gave a shit about the people living there.
Those people are getting pissed off and are starting to fight back, and if they get the bomb.
Thats alot of years of pent up frustration, can you say boom.
They had the financial resoures to to get those Western countries to support the creation of Isreal.
Those Western countries of course had their own agendas in helping them and neither really gave a shit about the people living there.
Those people are getting pissed off and are starting to fight back, and if they get the bomb.
Thats alot of years of pent up frustration, can you say boom.
