Islam is a Religion of Peace
- Thread starter JamesDouglas
- Start date
Islam is a religion of peace but also a religion that gets easily twisted by their own believers.
It seems like they tolerate when certain groups or branch of them does something extreme. They'll say a few words condemning those acts and thats about it. But when a non-islamic does or says something against islam, that is when they all start crying n yelling, starting demonstrations, protests etc.
It seems like they tolerate when certain groups or branch of them does something extreme. They'll say a few words condemning those acts and thats about it. But when a non-islamic does or says something against islam, that is when they all start crying n yelling, starting demonstrations, protests etc.
In GTA I've seen parades and demonstration of various groups like
Tamils, gay-rights group etc. Muslims generally keep a low profile in
our country. I have been approached by Christian evangelists from
various denomination. Not once did I run into a Muslim trying to
proselyte me. None of the muslims in my circle ever tried to
impose their values on me. Whether it is a religion of peace is
not for me to judge. But other than advocating a prudent
immigration policy to keep the fanatics from entering our
country I have no problem with having more muslims here.
Tamils, gay-rights group etc. Muslims generally keep a low profile in
our country. I have been approached by Christian evangelists from
various denomination. Not once did I run into a Muslim trying to
proselyte me. None of the muslims in my circle ever tried to
impose their values on me. Whether it is a religion of peace is
not for me to judge. But other than advocating a prudent
immigration policy to keep the fanatics from entering our
country I have no problem with having more muslims here.
Pretty sure all current major religions are religions of peace. Only one has people walking around with det packs on a normal basis though.
I saw a few posts claiming the bible doesn't have crazy mass-slaughtering shit like others. I remember something about God commanding the killing of every first-born Egyptian son... Not looking up the reference.
I will point out that Christians were once thought to have just collected a few of their favorite fables from other religions. Similarities between God and Mary's apple with Zeus and Pandora's box... Ever wonder why Jesus' only magic trick was turning water into wine? And why the last supper was so important? Some say it is borrowed from the Greek tale of Dionysus, later retold as the Roman Bacchus. Both were the gods of wine and feast in those religions. Just throwing it out there, as there are arguments against this view.
I saw a few posts claiming the bible doesn't have crazy mass-slaughtering shit like others. I remember something about God commanding the killing of every first-born Egyptian son... Not looking up the reference.
I will point out that Christians were once thought to have just collected a few of their favorite fables from other religions. Similarities between God and Mary's apple with Zeus and Pandora's box... Ever wonder why Jesus' only magic trick was turning water into wine? And why the last supper was so important? Some say it is borrowed from the Greek tale of Dionysus, later retold as the Roman Bacchus. Both were the gods of wine and feast in those religions. Just throwing it out there, as there are arguments against this view.
Islam, as written by and preached by a persecuted refugee fleeing his own people, seen as a apostate by his own people, is a wonderfully peaceful and idealistic religion.
Islam, as written by and preached by a Dark Ages warlord, a man who led armies that swept through the Middle East with flame and sword, is... less than peaceful.
Both the refugee and the warlord were the same person, in different stages of his life. In Islam, the later written verses take precedence over the earlier written verses, should they discuss the same matter. The persecuted man came first, the warlord later. The verses written by the warlord take precedence over the verses written by the persecuted refugee.
No, Islam typically doesn't preach. Classically (and I'm not saying this about Canadian or American or Western Muslims in general), Islam doesn't want to convert people who don't wish to convert. Islam states were perfectly accepting of dhimmi, since that meant more tax revenues and people you could squeeze harder for tax revenues (since they weren't permitted certain ostentations, dhimmi had a larger percentage of their wealth available to be taxed).
This is the part that'll really get me in trouble: Muslims in the West, even the firebrand types, are really bad at being Muslim. I mean, worse than (by the letter of "the law") reformed Jews are at being Orthodox or Unitarian Christians are at being strict Christians. This is a good thing. Strict (or even "strict", since even the strictest theological states aren't really all that strict in following their particular scripture) adherence to a particular scripture makes for a great deal of unhappiness and suffering. I can't imagine anyone's Deity wanting that, assuming, for Their own followers.
Islam, as written by and preached by a Dark Ages warlord, a man who led armies that swept through the Middle East with flame and sword, is... less than peaceful.
Both the refugee and the warlord were the same person, in different stages of his life. In Islam, the later written verses take precedence over the earlier written verses, should they discuss the same matter. The persecuted man came first, the warlord later. The verses written by the warlord take precedence over the verses written by the persecuted refugee.
No, Islam typically doesn't preach. Classically (and I'm not saying this about Canadian or American or Western Muslims in general), Islam doesn't want to convert people who don't wish to convert. Islam states were perfectly accepting of dhimmi, since that meant more tax revenues and people you could squeeze harder for tax revenues (since they weren't permitted certain ostentations, dhimmi had a larger percentage of their wealth available to be taxed).
This is the part that'll really get me in trouble: Muslims in the West, even the firebrand types, are really bad at being Muslim. I mean, worse than (by the letter of "the law") reformed Jews are at being Orthodox or Unitarian Christians are at being strict Christians. This is a good thing. Strict (or even "strict", since even the strictest theological states aren't really all that strict in following their particular scripture) adherence to a particular scripture makes for a great deal of unhappiness and suffering. I can't imagine anyone's Deity wanting that, assuming, for Their own followers.
Has no place today
I don't know how many times we have to go over this "religion" thing.
Its simply just methods devised to control the masses,...when nothing else, governments for example, existed,...just tribal level BS now,...nothing more.
The ONLY thing its useful now is, to justify inhumane acts, and maintain empires that thrive on hate, threats, and brain washing to perpetuate utter nonsense.
On a much smaller scale,...makes as much sense as the catholic school system in Ontario,...which exits for all of the same reasons.
FAST
+1Pretty sure all current major religions are religions of peace. Only one has people walking around with det packs on a normal basis though.
I saw a few posts claiming the bible doesn't have crazy mass-slaughtering shit like others. I remember something about God commanding the killing of every first-born Egyptian son... Not looking up the reference.
I will point out that Christians were once thought to have just collected a few of their favorite fables from other religions. Similarities between God and Mary's apple with Zeus and Pandora's box... Ever wonder why Jesus' only magic trick was turning water into wine? And why the last supper was so important? Some say it is borrowed from the Greek tale of Dionysus, later retold as the Roman Bacchus. Both were the gods of wine and feast in those religions. Just throwing it out there, as there are arguments against this view.
I don't know how many times we have to go over this "religion" thing.
Its simply just methods devised to control the masses,...when nothing else, governments for example, existed,...just tribal level BS now,...nothing more.
The ONLY thing its useful now is, to justify inhumane acts, and maintain empires that thrive on hate, threats, and brain washing to perpetuate utter nonsense.
On a much smaller scale,...makes as much sense as the catholic school system in Ontario,...which exits for all of the same reasons.
FAST
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Look at it this way. 50--100 years ago the vast majority of the conflicts
including WWI, WWII, Korean war and the Vietnam war involved non-Muslims.
Now that the non-muslims have made peace with each other isn't it natural for
most of the conflicts today to involve mostly Muslims?
Actually the west can stay out of these conflicts like the Iraq-Iran war and
the Israel-Palestinian conflict. Somehow it seems to be in the free world's
interest to meddle in their affairs every once in a while.
including WWI, WWII, Korean war and the Vietnam war involved non-Muslims.
Now that the non-muslims have made peace with each other isn't it natural for
most of the conflicts today to involve mostly Muslims?
Actually the west can stay out of these conflicts like the Iraq-Iran war and
the Israel-Palestinian conflict. Somehow it seems to be in the free world's
interest to meddle in their affairs every once in a while.
Best post ever!!!!Look at it this way. 50--100 years ago the vast majority of the conflicts
including WWI, WWII, Korean war and the Vietnam war involved non-Muslims.
Now that the non-muslims have made peace with each other isn't it natural for
most of the conflicts today to involve mostly Muslims?
Actually the west can stay out of these conflicts like the Iraq-Iran war and
the Israel-Palestinian conflict. Somehow it seems to be in the free world's
interest to meddle in their affairs every once in a while.
Islam is still the most peaceful, tolerant and accepting religion around today, how can anyone disagree?
So you're saying that raping, beheading and blowing up infidels is not peaceful? Are you some kind of Islamophobe?You need help.
I see the logic:So you're saying that raping, beheading and blowing up infidels is not peaceful? Are you some kind of Islamophobe?
Hell's Angels are motorcyclists
Hell's Angels kill people
Motorcyclists are killers
People drive cars
cars kill people
People are killers
Terrorists are Muslims
Terrorists kill people
Muslims are terrorists.
By the way, an Islamophobe is someone who has an irrational hear of Islam. I think that defines you.
Yes, it's irrational to fear Islam when Islamic terrorists instill fear in infidels by raping, beheading and blowing them up. How can anyone fear that? Anyone who fears that is an Islamophobe I tell ya!I see the logic:
Hell's Angels are motorcyclists
Hell's Angels kill people
Motorcyclists are killers
People drive cars
cars kill people
People are killers
Terrorists are Muslims
Terrorists kill people
Muslims are terrorists.
By the way, an Islamophobe is someone who has an irrational hear of Islam. I think that defines you.
That is NOT logic,...I see the logic:
Hell's Angels are motorcyclists
Hell's Angels kill people
Motorcyclists are killers
People drive cars
cars kill people
People are killers
Terrorists are Muslims
Terrorists kill people
Muslims are terrorists.
By the way, an Islamophobe is someone who has an irrational hear of Islam. I think that defines you.
Hope you don't write code for my bank,...
FAST
If thine enemy hungers feed him, if he thirsts give him drink, forgive thine enemies etc.... i.e. forgive them father for they know not what they do. At least in the Christian bible there is many more verses of love and tolerance. Stories of Christians have been told in the past of those going to be killed and thier last words being courageous and forgiving thier murderers. There is not hardly a word of tolerance towards others in islam when discussing infidels or those not of the same faith, charity seems to be only to thier own. Stories in the news of poor Christian women that are thirsty and in jail now, taken from her own children awaiting death for drinking from a muslim well and making it dirty. Where is the good muslim songs like Jesus loves the little children all the children of the world, red, yellow, black, white they are all precious in his sight? I believe that God speaks all the languages and people can pray in any language and be heard by God, but in islam they all must pray in arabic. Islam loves red/blood from henna paintings on the flesh, to slaughtering thier halal meat and leaving the jugular intact and blood spurting out until the heart pumps out all the dirty blood, to cutting thier own children in some fesitivities, beating themselves, sure Christians practised sacrifice too and used to beat themselves too. But, the fact is that these are all old pagan ways. These rituals should all be done away with. But, I would much rather a Christian as my neighbour that does not call me an infidel and teach thier children that all others are the enemy of God. It does not mean all muslims should be feared, I am sure some are here escaping the lives that they had back where they came. But, let's face it if they continue teaching thier children that everyone else is the enemy and that they are the only right ones and those children in turn can become less tolerant of others ways. When they are told not to make friends with the infidels rather than that Jesus loves you etc... there is a difference in what children are taught in Sunday school and in Christian schools to what is taught to children attending mosques etc... Christians are taught that the bible is history and how they used to live and not how we live now. i.e. we do not sacrifice our children on alters etc... but many stories as well as the 10 commandments teach that the blood cries out to God, (Cain and Abel) though shalt not kill etc... But, if you must defend, you must defend and there are many sick people in this world that one should protect themselves from, so you just do not lay down and give up either. In some instances the death penalty is suitable i.e. when you are dealing with a psychopath it is just fine with me.
A Muslim will always discount the Bible saying it has been changed and corrupted from the time Allah gave it to his prophets. They first need to understand that we use different English translations from the original Hebrew and Greek. Muslims often compare different translations of the Bible or point out the varying texts in the New Testament and Apocrypha. There are also different "versions" of the Quran, but these are not like the Bible's different versions.
There are 7 variants (or forms) of the Quran, but these variants are in the way you recite the Quran. Essentially the 7 forms of recitation come from different vowel pointings in later manuscripts. The original written Arabic did not have vowels. A Muslim will say that there is no difference in these recitations and that the Quran has been preserved, even though a word can change with different vowel pointings.
In order to avoid long debates about textual criticism of the Bible versus the Quran, it is best to compare the "7 forms of recitation" of the Quran with the textual variants in the Bible. We can say that there have been no doctrinal differences because of these variants in the Bible and Quran, and today they are both in their original form. Ultimately though, textual and historical evidence finds the NT exceptionally reliable. Refer to any Christian apologetic materials on textual criticism. If a Muslim still persists on the corruption of the Bible, a harsh response is to bring up the differences between Shi'a and Sunni texts in the Quran.
Logically, if the Bible was ever God's Word, then God would not have allowed it to have changed. The Quran clearly states that the Bible is clearly God's Word. Ask your Muslim friend to answer the following questions. (1) How can the Quran confirm a Book that has been changed? (2) How can the Bible be used as a proof text and foundation for the Quran when the Bible has been altered? (3) If the Bible is God's word, how is it possible for man to change His eternal and unchangeable Word? (4) Why does the Quran mention the Bible (OT, NT, prophets) when the Bible does not explicitly reference Muhammad or the Quran? (5) Jesus himself said His Words would never be changed (Matthew 24:35). Both Isaiah the prophet and 1 Peter declare "the word of the Lord stands forever." (1 Peter 1:23-25 and Isaiah 40:8)
Quran 3:3-4: It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong). Then those who reject Faith in the Signs of Allah will suffer the severest penalty, and Allah is Exalted in Might, Lord of Retribution.
Quran 3:78: Among them are those who twist their tongues to imitate the scripture, that you may think it is from the scripture, when it is not from the scripture, and they claim that it is from Allah, when it is not from Allah. Thus, they utter lies and attribute them to Allah, knowingly.
Quran 4:163: We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms.
Quran 5:15: O people of the Book! There hath come to you our Messenger, revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary). There hath come to you from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book,
Quran 10:64: For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme felicity.
Muslims believe that the preachings of Moses (referred to in the Quran) were the revelation of God, but that the Torah in our Bible is not that revelation. They believe that the Biblical Torah has another author. In the same way, the Psalms of the prophet David (referred to in the Quran) have been corrupted by Christian scholars. Likewise the Gospel that Jesus the prophet preached (also in the Quran) is not in our Christian NT. They point out the fact that of the 27 books of the NT, only a handful are the words of Jesus. Those books containing the words of Christ are entitled the Gospels of Mathew Mark, and Luke, but there is no Gospel of Jesus in the NT. A Muslims understanding of God's Word is that it will always come through a prophet in book form. Therefore they will typically ask if Jesus carried His gospel around with him when he preached. Muslims have misunderstood the whole canon process, and they assume that the Gospel at the time of Jesus was the book he carried with him, and not the epistles of the NT.
Quran 4:125: "Whose religion is better than one who SUBMITS himself to God, works righteousness and follows the faith Of Abraham the monotheist? God has chosen Abraham as a beloved friend".
On another note, SOME WIll try to change our behaviours at work etc... I know someone that had one approach him at work and tell him to put tape or something on a calendar girl. as it bothered him to see naked skin everyday when he has to pass his desk. Which that ended up with him lecturing him about islam and how it is so bad and wrong to view female flesh/skin. I do wonder why some of them can be so sexist and think that women do not view mens flesh and they do not have to cover themselves up head to toe also. I bet a male on a calendar in only a pair of ripped jeans would not be so bothersome.
There are 7 variants (or forms) of the Quran, but these variants are in the way you recite the Quran. Essentially the 7 forms of recitation come from different vowel pointings in later manuscripts. The original written Arabic did not have vowels. A Muslim will say that there is no difference in these recitations and that the Quran has been preserved, even though a word can change with different vowel pointings.
In order to avoid long debates about textual criticism of the Bible versus the Quran, it is best to compare the "7 forms of recitation" of the Quran with the textual variants in the Bible. We can say that there have been no doctrinal differences because of these variants in the Bible and Quran, and today they are both in their original form. Ultimately though, textual and historical evidence finds the NT exceptionally reliable. Refer to any Christian apologetic materials on textual criticism. If a Muslim still persists on the corruption of the Bible, a harsh response is to bring up the differences between Shi'a and Sunni texts in the Quran.
Logically, if the Bible was ever God's Word, then God would not have allowed it to have changed. The Quran clearly states that the Bible is clearly God's Word. Ask your Muslim friend to answer the following questions. (1) How can the Quran confirm a Book that has been changed? (2) How can the Bible be used as a proof text and foundation for the Quran when the Bible has been altered? (3) If the Bible is God's word, how is it possible for man to change His eternal and unchangeable Word? (4) Why does the Quran mention the Bible (OT, NT, prophets) when the Bible does not explicitly reference Muhammad or the Quran? (5) Jesus himself said His Words would never be changed (Matthew 24:35). Both Isaiah the prophet and 1 Peter declare "the word of the Lord stands forever." (1 Peter 1:23-25 and Isaiah 40:8)
Quran 3:3-4: It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong). Then those who reject Faith in the Signs of Allah will suffer the severest penalty, and Allah is Exalted in Might, Lord of Retribution.
Quran 3:78: Among them are those who twist their tongues to imitate the scripture, that you may think it is from the scripture, when it is not from the scripture, and they claim that it is from Allah, when it is not from Allah. Thus, they utter lies and attribute them to Allah, knowingly.
Quran 4:163: We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms.
Quran 5:15: O people of the Book! There hath come to you our Messenger, revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary). There hath come to you from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book,
Quran 10:64: For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme felicity.
Muslims believe that the preachings of Moses (referred to in the Quran) were the revelation of God, but that the Torah in our Bible is not that revelation. They believe that the Biblical Torah has another author. In the same way, the Psalms of the prophet David (referred to in the Quran) have been corrupted by Christian scholars. Likewise the Gospel that Jesus the prophet preached (also in the Quran) is not in our Christian NT. They point out the fact that of the 27 books of the NT, only a handful are the words of Jesus. Those books containing the words of Christ are entitled the Gospels of Mathew Mark, and Luke, but there is no Gospel of Jesus in the NT. A Muslims understanding of God's Word is that it will always come through a prophet in book form. Therefore they will typically ask if Jesus carried His gospel around with him when he preached. Muslims have misunderstood the whole canon process, and they assume that the Gospel at the time of Jesus was the book he carried with him, and not the epistles of the NT.
Quran 4:125: "Whose religion is better than one who SUBMITS himself to God, works righteousness and follows the faith Of Abraham the monotheist? God has chosen Abraham as a beloved friend".
On another note, SOME WIll try to change our behaviours at work etc... I know someone that had one approach him at work and tell him to put tape or something on a calendar girl. as it bothered him to see naked skin everyday when he has to pass his desk. Which that ended up with him lecturing him about islam and how it is so bad and wrong to view female flesh/skin. I do wonder why some of them can be so sexist and think that women do not view mens flesh and they do not have to cover themselves up head to toe also. I bet a male on a calendar in only a pair of ripped jeans would not be so bothersome.
Try that with me and you'd better have your running shoes on. We as Canadians are too tolerant. Time to say enough!Which that ended up with him lecturing him about islam and how it is so bad and wrong to view female flesh/skin. .
Muslims are hypocrites. Cover women but not men. Really? Don't like it. Go back to where you came from. It's that simple.
Waiting patiently for all the racist comments.
Well said, careful though, oil&gas might just call you an Islamophobe for telling the truth...If thine enemy hungers feed him, if he thirsts give him drink, forgive thine enemies etc.... i.e. forgive them father for they know not what they do. At least in the Christian bible there is many more verses of love and tolerance. Stories of Christians have been told in the past of those going to be killed and thier last words being courageous and forgiving thier murderers. There is not hardly a word of tolerance towards others in islam when discussing infidels or those not of the same faith, charity seems to be only to thier own. Stories in the news of poor Christian women that are thirsty and in jail now, taken from her own children awaiting death for drinking from a muslim well and making it dirty. Where is the good muslim songs like Jesus loves the little children all the children of the world, red, yellow, black, white they are all precious in his sight? I believe that God speaks all the languages and people can pray in any language and be heard by God, but in islam they all must pray in arabic. Islam loves red/blood from henna paintings on the flesh, to slaughtering thier halal meat and leaving the jugular intact and blood spurting out until the heart pumps out all the dirty blood, to cutting thier own children in some fesitivities, beating themselves, sure Christians practised sacrifice too and used to beat themselves too. But, the fact is that these are all old pagan ways. These rituals should all be done away with. But, I would much rather a Christian as my neighbour that does not call me an infidel and teach thier children that all others are the enemy of God. It does not mean all muslims should be feared, I am sure some are here escaping the lives that they had back where they came. But, let's face it if they continue teaching thier children that everyone else is the enemy and that they are the only right ones and those children in turn can become less tolerant of others ways. When they are told not to make friends with the infidels rather than that Jesus loves you etc... there is a difference in what children are taught in Sunday school and in Christian schools to what is taught to children attending mosques etc... Christians are taught that the bible is history and how they used to live and not how we live now. i.e. we do not sacrifice our children on alters etc... but many stories as well as the 10 commandments teach that the blood cries out to God, (Cain and Abel) though shalt not kill etc... But, if you must defend, you must defend and there are many sick people in this world that one should protect themselves from, so you just do not lay down and give up either. In some instances the death penalty is suitable i.e. when you are dealing with a psychopath it is just fine with me.
