Israel announces a unilateral cease fire
- Thread starter fuji
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Then maybe you should get your head out of the fucking clouds and realize IN REALITY that its not Israel that has suffered anything close to a genocide. But in the last 3 weeks alone 1200 people in Gaza have died by the hands of Israel. Wake up!!fuji said:
What ironical is no mention was made of the 1200 killed and well over 1000 wounded by the Israeli Blitzkrieg over those 9 victims of Hamas rocket attacks....Rockslinger said:
Hamas was crying for a cease fire when they were getting the shit kicked out of them. Now that there is one, they have no intention of keeping their end of the bargain.
Cease fires only work when both sides stop firing. In other words, there will be no cease fire.
Hamas insists it will continue battle against Israel
Nobody mentioned on this thread that Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005 under the “roadmap to peace” agreement. Under that agreement, Israel gives up Gaza and in turn, the Palestinians stop their terrorism. Instead, what do the Palestinians do? They increase their rockets and mortar attacks.
Israel is completely justified to retake Gaza and stay there.
Cease fires only work when both sides stop firing. In other words, there will be no cease fire.
Hamas insists it will continue battle against Israel
Nobody mentioned on this thread that Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005 under the “roadmap to peace” agreement. Under that agreement, Israel gives up Gaza and in turn, the Palestinians stop their terrorism. Instead, what do the Palestinians do? They increase their rockets and mortar attacks.
Israel is completely justified to retake Gaza and stay there.
The Pals claim that Israel broke some of the conditions of the roadmap to peace and that is why they did not uphold their end of the bargain.Cinema Face said:
A very simplistic telling. Israel has not given up Gaza and still has control of the area. Do not confuse the withdrawel of settlements with giving up control.Cinema Face said:
Some insight into the Zionist agenda, courtesy of their leaders:
http://www.monabaker.com/quotes.htm
When Muslims talk of their divine right, they are referred to as zealots. When Zionists do it, they are considered entitled (well, at least by their US backers/lobbyists/military support).
They always claim it was the other side in order to justify their constant application of terror.slowandeasy said:
Israel did break the terms of the deal by assassinanting anyone it didn't like by dropping bombs/missles on them from the sky over Gaza. They claim this is to kill terrorist elements, and that is perhaps true, but it isn't their call to make without violating the truce. The Gaza residents also broke the peace many, many times by firing thousands of poor man's versions of German V1 rockets at Israel. The fact that for the most part they couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with a slingshot and most of the missles crash in the desert doesn't make the act of firing them any less offensive to the country being fired at. If they ever developed a semi-decent targeting/guidance system though...slowandeasy said:
First off, Hamas enjoys very strong popular support in Gaza. They are not just a terrorist group, they are a product of democratic rule in Gaza. If elections were held they would probably win. Of course in WWII Germany the Nazis also enjoyed the popular support of most Germans. You can call Hamas the enemy and want to kill them, but it is an abuse of the word "terrorist" to label Hamas that, just as it is an abuse of the word "genocide" to say Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. If Israel was carpet bombing Gaza city 24 hours a day and shooting anyone who fled, then okay, one could say it is genocide...but killing a thousand people in a military invasion is not genocide. It could be argued that Israel has a system of South African style apartheid going on where Arabs are second class citizens and are forced to live in ghettos, fenced in and abused - but that isn't genocide, nor was what South Africa did genocide...it was unpleasant, morally wrong, and aroused the scorn of the free world (much like most of the free world, with the exception of the U.S. and Canada, is berating Israel at present).
There will be no end to the conflict until both sides get a deal they can live with and want to honour...not sure when or if that will ever happen.
If Egypt fomally requested the return of Gaza, and agreed to take total responsibilty for it, I'm pretty sure Israel would be happy to be rid of the place. If Egypt took down the border crossing, gave Egyptian citizenship to all residents of Gaza, and said Gaza was an Egytian protectorate I'd like to see how things would go.
Alexmst, you are one of the very few people who can discuss this issue without resorting to hyperboles.alexmst said:
Hasn't over 200,000 innocent civilians been murdered in Darfur and the U.N. has not ruled that a genocide? Just asking.*d* said:
fuji said:
What exactly do you mean by "area". Do you mean the area they drove their former neighbours off under threat of violence and seized their land?....I doubt the UN resolution would have designated that area as "arab land" if it was predominantly populated by jews.
Nobody has suffered anything close to a genocide, you were the one who inappropriately used that word, not me.*d* said:
Of the 1200 about half had it coming and half were innocents--many of whom were being used by Hamas as human shields.
Every one of those people died as the direct or indirect result of Hamas rocket fire.
B U L L S H I T.neversayno said:
At least half the dead had it coming to them and cannot in any way be described as innocent. The other half are all dead directly or indirectly because of Hamas rocket fire.
No-one had to die--Hamas could have stopped the rocket fire or better yet never started it in the first place.
The whole of what you would call Arab lands used to have a mixed population of Arab Jews and Arab Muslims. Arab Muslims allied themselves with the Nazis and began pogroms and ethnic cleansing of Jews in the 1930's and 1940's but especially in the 1950's.nottyboi said:
Most of the Jews in Israel are ethnically Arab who, as Arabs, are indigenous to Arab lands just as any other Arab is--but who fled from Muslim Arab persecution to the one tiny little bit of Arab territory where they can live in peace.
Most Jews in Israel are as Arab as the Muslims who are trying to kill them.
As for what I mean by "area", I mean the areas populated primarily by Arabs, which used to include both Jewish Arabs and Muslim Arabs. You'll note that the modern borders that exist there now are completely arbitrary and meaningless: The whole place used to be the Ottoman Empire.
Some parts of that area are now Syria, some are Jordan, some are Israel, some are Iraq, etc., but those bordes are all modern inventions without any significant historic basis and most Jews in Israel are indigenous to that oveall area.
Sorry, but it was you that brought up the word inappropriately to point out who the aggressor is in this war. As if Israel truly is under the threat of genocide and has the right to a pre-emptive attack.fuji said:
That's just bullshit. And I'm sorry if only about 600 of the Gaza deaths so far in the last 3 weeks were innocent civilians. I guess that number is not big enough yet for you to care. AND YES I"M BEING INSULTING!! Because both Hamas and Israel broke laws jus in bello and are therefore to blame for those deaths.Its too bad you're heart is so full of hate that you won't admit Israel has to take SOME blame for those deaths.
I wrote that Hamas was dedicated to committing genocide by its charter, which is true. I did not write that one had happened or was happening.*d* said:
Israel PLAINLY is under threat of genocide and the ONLY thing that has prevented one is the superiority of IDF.
Correct. Given the size and length of the military operation a number that small more or less proves that Israel was doing its best to limit civilian casualties. Any reasonable person would realizethat there would be a few more zeros on it if that was not the case.
Nope. Only Hamas did, your protestations to the contrary notwithstanding, Israel has been on the receiving end of Hamas rockets for a very long time.
Israel has no responsibility for any of those deaths. They are, every one of them, either the direct or the indirect result of Hamas rocket fire. Every single one.
Despite the ceasefire, Hamas continues to launch rockets from Gaza into southern Israel.
Rockets fired despite ceasefire
Rockets fired despite ceasefire
Its odd that Hamas did not mention its call for the destruction of Israel in its electoral manifesto in 2006.fuji said:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jan/12/israel
And the idea that Israel is under the threat of a real genocide from Hamas is laughable, charter or not. Because its the superiority of the IDF that has inflicted many more disproportionate causalties on Gaza compared to what Hamas could ever do to Israel.
What a heartless statement that is. Isn't 600 civilians in 3 weeks big enough to make a fuss?? Its even reasonable? Like I said before, "What planet are you from?" If Hamas had killed that many, Israel would most likely flatten Gaza. Your statement simply shows you put different values on different civilian lives.
And as per many human rights groups worldwide including within Israel, both Hamas and Israel have committed war crimes and therefore Israel most take some responsibility for those civilian causalties.
