Jays to trade DOC????

[Captain Fantastic]

I've read some variation of this quote here and on other sites:

Get rid of Doc and soon. The Jays at one point this season were 27-14 and over the past 49 games they have gone 17-32 for a total record of 44-46.

Also get rid of JP at the end of the year and start a new 5 year plan. the Jays have no hope this year and might as well plan for the future. the Jays home attendance is low anyway so what difference would it really make if Doc is traded?

To me it makes no sense. Zero. Get rid of Doc during the season and then fire JP during the offseason? Isn't that putting the cart before the horse?

This is the most important (potential) trade in franchise history. Or at the very least since Alomar/Carter for McGriff/Fernandez. There is no margin for error when dealing the best home-grown pitcher in Jays' history and one of, if not THE best pitchers in MLB over the past 5 years. If one believes that Ricciardi is not fit to be the GM, then there is no way he should make a trade of this importance, plain and simple.

 

[squash500]

I've read some variation of this quote here and on other sites:

To me it makes no sense. Zero. Get rid of Doc during the season and then fire JP during the offseason? Isn't that putting the cart before the horse?

This is the most important (potential) trade in franchise history. Or at the very least since Alomar/Carter for McGriff/Fernandez. There is no margin for error when dealing the best home-grown pitcher in Jays' history and one of, if not THE best pitchers in MLB over the past 5 years. If one believes that Ricciardi is not fit to be the GM, then there is no way he should make a trade of this importance, plain and simple.

I agree with you. The Jays should get rid of JP ASAP as well. However Rogers ironically is too cheap to do that. I personally wish that the Jays would have never hired JP in the first place.

I wonder who would be fit to make this important trade? Maybe Paul Beeston? I'm not really sure what GMS are available mid-season that the Jays could replace JP with?

 

[Toke]

I agree with you. The Jays should get rid of JP ASAP as well. However Rogers ironically is too cheap to do that. I personally wish that the Jays would have never hired JP in the first place.

I wonder who would be fit to make this important trade? Maybe Paul Beeston? I'm not really sure what GMS are available mid-season that the Jays could replace JP with?

Too cheap!? Ask Frank Thomas and BJ Ryan how frugal they think the Jays are. JP cries poor (with good reason), but then blows the whole 'kitten kabootle' (probably incorrect spelling) on DHs and closers. As a former A's fan, I'm ashamed to admit we somehow had a hand in this guys 'success'.

 

[blueline]

Hamels/Pedro may be more realistic.

You had to say that didn't you?

Yup - and I will say it again. Pedro passed the physical, a deal is to be announced Weds.

 

[SkyRider]

What's the problem with Wells and Rios, and hypothetically Travis Snyder, is not a lack of juice it's astro turf

Ok, that explains Wells and Rios lack of power. What is causing all the arm injuries on the pitching staff? Is the mound too low? I heard that when the Dodgers had Koufax and Drysdale, the mound at Dodger Stadium was really high.

 

[Toronto Passions]

I saw the "Ryan Express" real time both on TV and in person. When he took the mound there was that air of anticipation and excitement or "aura" as TP puts it.

Lucky you. I wish I saw the Express live.

I wish I saw Koufax live, personally. That must have been some kinda "aura." Lol.

 

[OnTheWayOut]

Their most tradeable assests are Rolen and Doc. A shrewd GM should be able to parlay this into a windfall.

OK, Doc is the hottest thing going right now but Rolen???? Come on, any GM or even GM's wife and kids know this guy is giving his last hurrah. Half of a good season is not going to make anyone think Rolen is worth more than a bag of balls. The DL is waiting as it has been ever since he left the Phillies in a snit.

 

[blueline]

OK, Doc is the hottest thing going right now but Rolen???? Come on, any GM or even GM's wife and kids know this guy is giving his last hurrah. Half of a good season is not going to make anyone think Rolen is worth more than a bag of balls. The DL is waiting as it has been ever since he left the Phillies in a snit.

The Red Sox were kicking the tires on Rolen recently. Tito likes him from his days with the Phillies. The problem is that Jays want Boston's top pitching prospect, Michael Bowden in return. I am sure Theo took one look at the gorilla suit and backed off. Rolen = Lowell. Both make similar money, both can break down at any moment. Not a smart move for the Sox.

As for Doc, a lot of teams are taking a good hard look at this for two reasons. They are hesistant to give up their best young prospects and also, they cannot talk contract extension with Doc until he is traded. JP made this clear. So if Doc gets traded to a team, that he does agree to btw, he can turn around and demand a trade from that team in the off season. If JP really wants to trade Doc, the best time is right now. If he waits until the off season, he won't get nearly as much for him. See Mets-Twins deal for Santana, that I posted earlier.

 

[shack]

If JP really wants to trade Doc, the best time is right now. If he waits until the off season, he won't get nearly as much for him.

I think he's best off biding his time. He doesn't want to look desperate and I don't think the offers will get worse. If a team really wants him they may be willing to sweeten the pot.

 

[blueline]

I think he's best off biding his time. He doesn't want to look desperate and I don't think the offers will get worse. If a team really wants him they may be willing to sweeten the pot.

Which is why the best time is now. The Cardinals, Phillies, Dodgers, etc. all see Doc as their ticket to the World Series and they only have a couple of weeks to pull the trigger. If they are truly serious about wanting to win, they may be willing to give up more. If this goes into the off season, there is no urgency for teams to make a trade. Hence my comparison to the Santana deal. Looking at those players the Twins got back makes you say - is that all they got? There is no top pitching prospect (from the Mets) in their lineup, (one is about to be called up from AAA) but there is nobody like a Kershaw, Happ, Buchholz, Joba type that JP wants. Carlos Gomez isn't quite the 5 tool player he was expected to be. He would be the 4th outfielder with Toronto. Again, I ask Jays fans, if JP gets similar players in return for Doc, will you be satisfied or pissed? JP would be heading into his 9th - 10th year of his 5 year plan, still without a meaningful game played in September.

 

[Toke]

The Red Sox were kicking the tires on Rolen recently. Tito likes him from his days with the Phillies. The problem is that Jays want Boston's top pitching prospect, Michael Bowden in return. I am sure Theo took one look at the gorilla suit and backed off. Rolen = Lowell. Both make similar money, both can break down at any moment. Not a smart move for the Sox.

As for Doc, a lot of teams are taking a good hard look at this for two reasons. They are hesistant to give up their best young prospects and also, they cannot talk contract extension with Doc until he is traded. JP made this clear. So if Doc gets traded to a team, that he does agree to btw, he can turn around and demand a trade from that team in the off season. If JP really wants to trade Doc, the best time is right now. If he waits until the off season, he won't get nearly as much for him. See Mets-Twins deal for Santana, that I posted earlier.

I wouldn't make that deal either. As good a season as Rolen is having, the chances of this continuing, especially into next season, are slim. Other than his defense, he's hitting over his head. For a corner infielder he lacks pop and I've never thought of him as a .330 hitter. Not to mention, I wouldn't think Boston is desperate for Rolen. Better can be had for Bowden.

 

[blueline]

I wouldn't make that deal either. As good a season as Rolen is having, the chances of this continuing, especially into next season, are slim. Other than his defense, he's hitting over his head. For a corner infielder he lacks pop and I've never thought of him as a .330 hitter. Not to mention, I wouldn't think Boston is desperate for Rolen. Better can be had for Bowden.

Agreed. If the Sox were serious players for Doc, then I can see Bowden being part of that package. But not for Rolen. Sox actually were close to a Delcarmen for Garrett Atkins deal earlier in the season. Not sure I like that one now, even though I do not like Delcarmen. Atkins' numbers are way down this season. 6 HR and 28 RBI with a .226 BA and .632 OPS. He is a career 20 HR - 100 RBI guy (avg/162 games).

 

[SkyRider]

As good a season as Rolen is having, the chances of this continuing, especially into next season, are slim.

Too bad, the Jays didn't have the same foresight with Wells and Rios (and Overbay) when they were having a couple of decent (not great) years.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

Which is why the best time is now. The Cardinals, Phillies, Dodgers, etc. all see Doc as their ticket to the World Series and they only have a couple of weeks to pull the trigger. If they are truly serious about wanting to win, they may be willing to give up more. If this goes into the off season, there is no urgency for teams to make a trade. Hence my comparison to the Santana deal. Looking at those players the Twins got back makes you say - is that all they got? There is no top pitching prospect (from the Mets) in their lineup, (one is about to be called up from AAA) but there is nobody like a Kershaw, Happ, Buchholz, Joba type that JP wants. Carlos Gomez isn't quite the 5 tool player he was expected to be. He would be the 4th outfielder with Toronto. Again, I ask Jays fans, if JP gets similar players in return for Doc, will you be satisfied or pissed? JP would be heading into his 9th - 10th year of his 5 year plan, still without a meaningful game played in September.

I simply don't want JP Ricciardi making the trade. I can't think of a good trade, let alone a great trade that he's made. Don't get me wrong, he's made a couple of good ones, but he's never pulled the trigger on a great trade (I'm thinking Alex Rios for one of the Giants young starters), which is what the Jays would need to make to justify getting rid of Roy Halladay.

I'm not against trading Doc, particularly if he wants to go to a contender. I just think this trade needs to make sense for the Jays long-term future. You simply can't trade a franchise starter and best pitcher of the last five seasons for fifty cents on the dollar. That's what Minnesota got for Johan Santana and it set that team back a few seasons. Well, that and the Matt Garza/Jason Bartlett for Delmon Young/Brendan Harris trade - one of the underrated trade robberies of recent memory.

 

[Rocky4]

Im LIVE IN PHILLY.GM Amarro doesnt want to give up Happ and Drebeck..the manager Charlie Manuel and adviser Pat Gillick,say do it.All sports talk hosts say do it,i now say do it..Red Sox and Dodgers now in the mix...We need him,if Amarro blows this hes crazy,Halladay is great ive heard..Rich

 

[tribunus]

Im LIVE IN PHILLY.GM Amarro doesnt want to give up Happ and Drebeck..the manager Charlie Manuel and adviser Pat Gillick,say do it.All sports talk hosts say do it,i now say do it..Red Sox and Dodgers now in the mix...We need him,if Amarro blows this hes crazy,Halladay is great ive heard..Rich

Oh, he is great my friend. He can walk on water. He can make the ground fertile. He can even bring peace to the Middle East.

Yeah, you guys need him. Count your blessings you're in the NL East. Your playoff rotation of Hamels, Moyer, Blanton & maybe Happ scares nobody.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Good chance Halladay will stay in Toronto because best trade partner Philly, have completed a trade for Cliff Lee of Indians according to reports.
http://tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=286103

 

[dj1470]

Good chance Halladay will stay in Toronto because best trade partner Philly, have completed a trade for Cliff Lee of Indians according to reports.
http://tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=286103

beat you to it
https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=246458

 

[bendova]

I can't see them dealing him now with the Phillies out of it, who is going to drive the price up now?

 

[shack]

I can't see them dealing him now with the Phillies out of it, who is going to drive the price up now?

Every single team in the league needs pitching.

I agree, they won't deal him now, but now that a bar has been set as to what a pitcher of lesser quality than Doc is worth, it means the Jays must get offered something better if somebody wants him. Every team needs pitching and in the offseason, may teams will consider themselves contenders for 2010.