Royal Spa

Mexican immigration

TOVisitor

New member
Jul 14, 2003
3,317
0
0
The further adventures of Commander Codpiece.

Bush a couple of days ago:

After saying he did not consider the anthem sung in Spanish to have the same value as the anthem sung in English, Mr. Bush said: "I think people who want to be a citizen of this country ought to learn English. And they ought to learn to sing the anthem in English."
From Kevin Phillips' American Dynasty:

When visiting cities like Chicago, Milwaukee or Philadelphia, in pivotal states, he would drop in at Hispanic festivals and parites, sometimes joining in singing "The Star-Spangled Banner" in Spanish, sometimes partying with a "Viva Bush" mariachi band flown in from Texas.
IOKIYAPOTUS.

Oh, and an FYI ... in 1919, the U.S. Bureau of Education commissioned a Spanish-language version of “The Star Spangled Banner.” The State Department’s website also features four-separate versions of the anthem in Spanish.
 

juanbrujo

New member
Nov 12, 2004
1,319
0
0
Toronto

LancsLad

Unstable Element
Jan 15, 2004
18,089
0
0
In a very dark place
juanbrujo said:
Yes, I forgot that the United States likes to keep everything peaceful. That is why so many countries admire the US.
Consistency here dude. Don't y'all go knocking the US one minute then crying to get in the next. Funny how people love to take shots at America but somehow bad and evil as she is it is where they all want to go.
 

papasmerf

New member
Oct 22, 2002
26,529
0
0
42.55.65N 78.43.73W
LancsLad said:
Consistency here dude. Don't y'all go knocking the US one minute then crying to get in the next. Funny how people love to take shots at America but somehow bad and evil as she is it is where they all want to go.


Funny, I want to retire in Mexico.
 

maxweber

Active member
Oct 12, 2005
1,296
1
36
Only too right; far right, in fact..

Meister said:
I think the biggest problem South America has is corruption. Sorry, can't blame that on W. But, then again, somebody in this forum will find a way to just do that.
Absoltely! So nice to hear some truth for a change, instead of the darned blame-the-U.S. media! The way those leftists talk, you'd think that the U.S. has actually supported dictators and corrupt governments in South America. Like his predecessors, W, would never dream of supporting any government that was less than 100% democratic.

MW
 

slowandeasy

Why am I here?
May 4, 2003
7,223
0
36
GTA
maxweber said:
Absoltely! So nice to hear some truth for a change, instead of the darned blame-the-U.S. media! The way those leftists talk, you'd think that the U.S. has actually supported dictators and corrupt governments in South America. Like his predecessors, W, would never dream of supporting any government that was less than 100% democratic.

MW
Huh???? I can't tell if you are joking or serious......
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
Jan 10, 2002
40,753
110
63
Hooterville
www.scubadiving.com
maxweber said:
Absoltely! So nice to hear some truth for a change, instead of the darned blame-the-U.S. media! The way those leftists talk, you'd think that the U.S. has actually supported dictators and corrupt governments in South America. Like his predecessors, W, would never dream of supporting any government that was less than 100% democratic.

MW
If that were the standard we'd have to depart the UN.

OTB
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
Jan 10, 2002
40,753
110
63
Hooterville
www.scubadiving.com
onthebottom said:
...... Tell me how Mexico deals with illegal immigration from its Southern border.

Please

OTB
Answering my own question, if it's good for the goose....

Mexico's Immigration Laws

* Pursuant to Article 33, "Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country." This ban applies, among other things, to participation in demonstrations and the expression of opinions in public about domestic politics like those much in evidence in Los Angeles, New York and elsewhere in recent days.

* Equal employment rights are denied to immigrants, even legal ones. Article 32: "Mexicans shall have priority over foreigners under equality of circumstances for all classes of concessions and for all employment, positions, or commissions of the Government in which the status of citizenship is not indispensable."

* Jobs for which Mexican citizenship is considered "indispensable" include, pursuant to Article 32, bans on foreigners, immigrants, and even naturalized citizens of Mexico serving as military officers, Mexican-flagged ship and airline crew, and chiefs of seaports and airports.

* Article 55 denies immigrants the right to become federal lawmakers. A Mexican congressman or senator must be "a Mexican citizen by birth." Article 91 further stipulates that immigrants may never aspire to become cabinet officers as they are required to be Mexican by birth. Article 95 says the same about Supreme Court justices. In accordance with Article 130, immigrants - even legal ones - may not become members of the clergy, either.

* Foreigners, to say nothing of illegal immigrants, are denied fundamental property rights. For example, Article 27 states, "Only Mexicans by birth or naturalization and Mexican companies have the right to acquire ownership of lands, waters, and their appurtenances, or to obtain concessions for the exploitation of mines or of waters."

* Article 11 guarantees federal protection against "undesirable aliens resident in the country." What is more, private individuals are authorized to make citizen's arrests. Article 16 states, "In cases of flagrante delicto, any person may arrest the offender and his accomplices, turning them over without delay to the nearest authorities." In other words, Mexico grants its citizens the right to arrest illegal aliens and hand them over to police for prosecution. Imagine the Minutemen exercising such a right!

* The Mexican constitution states that foreigners - not just illegal immigrants - may be expelled for any reason and without due process. According to Article 33, "the Federal Executive shall have the exclusive power to compel any foreigner whose remaining he may deem inexpedient to abandon the national territory immediately and without the necessity of previous legal action."

source: http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/Mexicos_Immigration_Law.pdf

OTB
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
Jan 10, 2002
40,753
110
63
Hooterville
www.scubadiving.com
From the National Review:

A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
An imaginary exercise.

By Tom Tancredo

What would a day without illegal aliens really be like? Let’s try to imagine it.

On May 1, millions of illegal aliens working in meat-processing plants, construction, restaurants, hotels, and other “jobs Americans won’t do” are supposed to stay home from work to show the importance of their labor to our nation’s economy. Doubtless, there will be some inconvenience if that happens, but there is another side to the story that is not being reported.

We are talking about illegal aliens, not mere “immigrants.” If legal immigrants stopped working for a day, we would miss the services of physicians, nurses, computer programmers, writers, actors, musicians, entrepreneurs of all stripes, and some airline pilots…as well as the CEO of Google. That would be more than an inconvenience, but it won’t happen because legal immigrants are not out marching angrily for rights that are already protected by our courts.

But if illegal aliens all took the day off and were truly invisible for one day, there would be some plusses along with the mild inconveniences.

Hospital emergency rooms across the southwest would have about 20-percent fewer patients, and there would be 183,000 fewer people in Colorado without health insurance.

OBGYN wards in Denver would have 24-percent fewer deliveries and Los Angeles’s maternity-ward deliveries would drop by 40 percent and maternity billings to Medi-Cal would drop by 66 percent.

Youth gangs would see their membership drop by 50 percent in many states, and in Phoenix, child-molestation cases would drop by 34 percent and auto theft by 40 percent.

In Durango, Colorado, and the Four Corners area and the surrounding Indian reservations, the methamphetamine epidemic would slow for one day, as the 90 percent of that drug now being brought in from Mexico was held in Albuquerque and Farmington a few hours longer. According to the sheriff of La Plata County, Colorado, meth is now being brought in by ordinary illegal aliens as well as professional drug dealers.

If the “Day-Without-an-Immigrant Boycott” had been held a year earlier on May 8, 2005, and illegal alien Raul Garcia-Gomez had stayed home and did not work or go to a party that day, Denver police officer Donnie Young would still be alive and Garcia-Gomez would not be sitting in a Denver jail awaiting trial.

If the boycott had been held on July 1, 2004, Justin Goodman of Thornton, Colorado, would still be riding his motorcycle and Roberto Martinez-Ruiz would not be in prison for killing him and then fleeing the scene while driving on a suspended license.

If illegal aliens stayed home—in Mexico, Guatemala, Brazil, and 100 other countries—the Border Patrol would have 3,500 fewer apprehensions (of the 12,000 who try each day).

Colorado taxpayers would save almost $3,000,000 in one day if illegals do not access any public services, because illegal aliens cost the state over $1 billion annually according to the best estimates.

Colorado’s K-12 school classrooms would have 131,000 fewer students if illegal aliens and the children of illegals were to stay home, and Denver high schools’ dropout rate would once again approach the national norm.

Colorado’s jails and prisons would have 10-percent fewer inmates, and Denver and many other towns would not need to build so many new jails to accommodate the overcrowding.

Our highway patrol and county sheriffs would have about far fewer DUI arrests and there would be a dramatic decline in rollovers of vanloads of illegal aliens on I-70 and other highways.

On a Day Without an Illegal Immigrant, thousands of workers and small contractors in the construction industry across Colorado would have their jobs back, the jobs given to illegal workers because they work for lower wages and no benefits. (On the other hand, if labor unions continue signing up illegal workers, no one will be worrying about Joe Six-Pack’s loss. Sorry, Joe, but you forgot to tell your union business agent that your job is as important as his is.)

If it fell on a Sunday, Catholic Churches in the southwestern states might have 20-percent fewer parishioners at Mass if all illegals stayed home, but they would be back next Sunday, so the bishop’s job is not in danger. The religious leaders who send people to the marches and rallies will never fear for their jobs, because illegal aliens need their special “human-rights” advocacy and some priests and nuns seem especially devoted to that cause. The fact that most Catholics disagree with the bishops’ radicalism doesn’t seem to affect their dedication to undermining the rule of law.

All of this might be a passing colorful episode in the heated national debate over immigration policy if it weren’t for an odd coincidence: The immigration-enforcement agency responsible for locating and deporting illegal aliens is also taking the day off today. Of course, they didn’t call it a boycott. It is just (non)business as usual.

—Tom Tancredo is a Republican congressman from Colorado.
 

The Mugger

Guest
Sep 27, 2005
592
0
0
onthebottom said:
A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
An imaginary exercise.


If it fell on a Sunday, Catholic Churches in the southwestern states might have 20-percent fewer parishioners at Mass if all illegals stayed home, but they would be back next Sunday, so the bishop’s job is not in danger. The religious leaders who send people to the marches and rallies will never fear for their jobs, because illegal aliens need their special “human-rights” advocacy and some priests and nuns seem especially devoted to that cause. The fact that most Catholics disagree with the bishops’ radicalism doesn’t seem to affect their dedication to undermining the rule of law.

.

—Tom Tancredo is a Republican congressman from Colorado.

To clarify, the position of the Arch Bishop of Los Angeles - the objection to The US House Representative bill was more about the Church's ability to serve needy Catholics without having to determine the legal status of the needy before doing so and thus avoiding a jail term. I would say that is a valid concern amongst any group committed to social service. Or is this law just another attempt by the Republicans to insist people do things only for themselves - you know boot straps and all.
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
Jan 10, 2002
40,753
110
63
Hooterville
www.scubadiving.com
The Mugger said:
To clarify, the position of the Arch Bishop of Los Angeles - the objection to The US House Representative bill was more about the Church's ability to serve needy Catholics without having to determine the legal status of the needy before doing so and thus avoiding a jail term. I would say that is a valid concern amongst any group committed to social service. Or is this law just another attempt by the Republicans to insist people do things only for themselves - you know boot straps and all.
A cynic would say they're just trying to keep the donations up but I'd say you're right, and that position does make sense.

OTB
 

juanbrujo

New member
Nov 12, 2004
1,319
0
0
Toronto
LancsLad said:
Consistency here dude. Don't y'all go knocking the US one minute then crying to get in the next. Funny how people love to take shots at America but somehow bad and evil as she is it is where they all want to go.
I am not taking shots at America. I am just talking about the United States, America is the whole continent in case you did not know but since you stole the term let's refer to it as the Americas.

What happens is that like I mentioned before, the United States is based on saying one thing and doing the complete opposite. For example, the war in Iraq, one group of people is against it and the other supports it. The United States pretends to be a caring country but at the same time they go bomb another country for their resources. Therefore, it is very hard to be consistent on a country that is based on that.
 

LancsLad

Unstable Element
Jan 15, 2004
18,089
0
0
In a very dark place
juanbrujo said:
I am not taking shots at America. I am just talking about the United States, America is the whole continent in case you did not know but since you stole the term let's refer to it as the Americas.

What happens is that like I mentioned before, the United States is based on saying one thing and doing the complete opposite. For example, the war in Iraq, one group of people is against it and the other supports it. The United States pretends to be a caring country but at the same time they go bomb another country for their resources. Therefore, it is very hard to be consistent on a country that is based on that.

I didn't steal a term, maybe borrowed long term is a kinder gentler word. You seem to miss the whole thrust of the points I am making. You seem genuine and without any ulterior motive based malice in what you say so I will not attack as I would if it was that twit TOV but please understand even though I am not an American I support what the government is trying to do about ILLEGAL immigrants.
 

TOVisitor

New member
Jul 14, 2003
3,317
0
0
Why Tom Tancredo is a racist

March 16, 2006
An Irish Face on the Cause of Citizenship
By NINA BERNSTEIN



Rory Dolan's, a restaurant in Yonkers, was packed with hundreds of illegal Irish immigrants on that rainy Friday night in January when the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform called its first meeting. Niall O'Dowd, the chairman, soon had them cheering.

"You're not just some guy or some woman in the Bronx, you're part of a movement," Mr. O'Dowd told the crowd of construction workers, students and nannies. He was urging them to support a piece of Senate legislation that would let them work legally toward citizenship, rather than punishing them with prison time, as competing bills would.

For months, coalitions of Latino, Asian and African immigrants from 50 countries have been championing the same measure with scant attention, even from New York's Democratic senators. But the Irish struck out on their own six weeks ago, and as so often before in the history of American immigration policy, they have landed center stage.

Last week, when Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton and Charles E. Schumer declared their support for a new path to citizenship, and denounced criminal penalties recently passed by the House of Representatives, they did so not at the large, predominantly Hispanic immigrant march on Washington, but at the much smaller Irish rally held there the following day.

Some in the immigrant coalitions resent being passed over, and worry that the Irish are angling for a separate deal. Others welcome the clout and razzmatazz the Irish bring to a beleaguered cause. And both groups can point to an extraordinary Irish track record of lobbying triumphs, like the creation of thousands of special visas in the 1980's and 90's that one historian of immigration, Roger Daniels, calls "affirmative action for white Europeans."

..............................

More recently, Mr. O'Dowd, the publisher of The Irish Voice, was himself part of a lobby that leaned on legislators with Irish heritage to engineer more than 48,000 visas for the Irish, legalizing many who had re-greened old Celtic neighborhoods in New York, Boston and Philadelphia.

But much has changed. After 9/11, a groundswell of anger over illegal immigration converged with national security concerns, propelling a populist revolt across party lines. Immigration is now seen as a no-win issue in electoral politics. And both opponents and supporters of legalization take a more jaundiced view of the Irish role in the debate.

"They're essentially saying, 'Look, we're good European illegal immigrants,' " said Mark Krikorian, director of the Center for Immigration Studies, which supports the House and Senate measures that would turn "unlawful presence," now a civil violation, into a crime. "The reason they've been more successful is the same reason it appeals to editors — immigration nostalgia from 150 years ago."

He added: "Can they be bought off by a special program for a handful of remaining illegals? I'm not saying it's a good idea, but you just start talking about the old sod and singing 'Danny Boy,' and of course it's possible."

A special measure for the Irish would be hard to pass today, countered Muzaffar Chishti, the director of the New York office of Migration Policy Institute, a nonpartisan research organization that has generally supported immigrant amnesties. In earlier campaigns, he recalled, an Irish lobby worked with other immigrant groups, and all won pieces of their agenda.

.................................

Special visas for the Irish "would be brilliant," said Valery O'Donnell, a house cleaner and single mother of 7-year-old twins who was at the Rory Dolan's meeting, and said she had lived in New York illegally for 13 years. "There's no harm in us. We're all out here to work hard."

But several immigrant advocates in New York said that even the hint of special treatment for the Irish would inflame the hurt feelings that began in February when Senator Schumer first spoke out on immigration at an Irish Lobby event in Woodside, Queens, after declining invitations by veteran immigrant organizations more representative of an estimated 700,000 illegal immigrants in the state. The Pew Hispanic Center estimates that 78 percent of the nation's nearly 12 million illegal immigrants are from Mexico or elsewhere in Latin America.

Spokesmen for the two senators said that their appearances had been determined only by what fit their schedules, and that their support for immigrants was not meant for a specific group.

Some immigrant leaders were not convinced. Juan Carlos Ruiz, the coordinator of the predominantly Hispanic rally of 40,000 held March 7 on Capitol Hill, said that only one senator had shown up there, without speaking: Richard J. Durbin, an Illinois Democrat. The next day, Mr. Ruiz said, when he and his 14-year-old son stopped by the Irish gathering of about 2,400 and realized that the speakers included Senators Edward M. Kennedy, John McCain, as well as Senators Clinton and Schumer, his son asked, "Why didn't the senators come to our rally?"

"I was heartbroken," Mr. Ruiz said. "I needed to explain to him: 'The immigrants of color, for these senators we are not important enough for them to make a space in their calendar.' "

He added: "The Irish are not at fault. They are suffering the same troubles that we are. But it is discrimination."

Monami Maulik, a leader in another coalition, Immigrant Communities in Action, echoed his sentiment. "For a lot of us, this is a current civil rights struggle," she said.

But when the phrase was repeated to Mr. O'Dowd, he countered: "It's not about that at all. It's about how you change the law." For years, he added, he has lobbied to win nearly lost causes, including helping to broker a ceasefire in Northern Ireland. "It's not about being fair, it's about being good," he said. "It's about getting it done."


* * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/2006/03/why-tom-tancredo-is-racist.html

You hear Tancredo say ONE word about this?

No?

To him, immigration is about dirty Mexicans, not clean Irish.

The idea that the Irish could get visas when Dominicans and Haitians get a one way ticket back and that they're about to build internment camps for the Chinese that China refuses to accept back should be outrageous. Tancredo should be screaming like a chimpanzee about this.

At least Bertie Ahern, the Irish PM, doesn't want any special deals, but he has his own reasons. He wants those EU passport holders back. They're now building Polish bars in Dublin to cater to the new workers.

Remember, any Irish tossed from New York today, can land on their feet in Sydney or Toronto or Brussels tommorow. They have a right to immigrate to any number of countries and as an EU passport holder, can work anywhere in the EU. Americans don't have that right, forget Dominicans.

This, however, would be the break on any bill to jail illegals. You can't jail Mexicans and let the Irish run free and there is no appetite to jail Irish. Which might account for the silence of Tancredo and his Minutmen friends.
 

xdog

New member
Feb 28, 2006
1,444
0
0
toronto
I guess there's not

a lot of Irish people in Colorado. Remember, he's referring to problems that his state is facing. I'm sure if illegal Irish people were abusing the system in similar numbers as the hispanics, they would have been mentioned. The people and companies employing illegal labour need to be charged as they are breaking the law. I'm sure that a lot of these illegals are great people, just remember they are being subsidized by the rest of the tax-paying public. I hear a lot about them getting paid very little, but no mention of how they use hospitals,schools,infrastructure without paying for it.
Let these people return to their countries and apply legally. I'm sure that most of them will be accepted after going through the proper channels.

x
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
Jan 10, 2002
40,753
110
63
Hooterville
www.scubadiving.com
The polls are pretty clear on how Americans feel:

5/03/05 FOX Poll: Illegal Immigration Seen as Serious Problem For U.S.
Tuesday, May 03, 2005
By Dana Blanton

NEW YORK — An overwhelming majority of Americans think illegal immigration (search) is a very or somewhat serious problem for the country today, and over two-thirds favor using the United States military to stop illegal immigrants from entering the country, according to the latest FOX News Poll. Almost equal numbers say their concern about illegal immigration is based on homeland security and terrorism as say their concern is about jobs and the economy.

The poll finds 91 percent think the illegal or undocumented immigration situation in the United States today is a "very" serious (63 percent) or "somewhat" serious (28 percent) problem. Only 5 percent think the problem is "not very" serious and 2 percent "not at all" serious.

Of those identifying illegal immigration as a serious problem, the basis for that belief is evenly split between concern about homeland security and terrorism (31 percent) and concern about jobs and the economy (31 percent), with the remaining one third giving the unprompted response "both" the economy and terrorism.

Opinion Dynamics Corporation conducted the national telephone poll of 900 registered voters for FOX News on April 25-26.

The new poll shows that 67 percent of Americans favor putting military forces on the borders to stop illegal immigration — down from 79 percent three years ago, when 9/11 and talk of terrorists illegally entering the country were more top of mind issues (June 2002).

"The drop in support for using the military on the borders may also be due to the growing perception that the military is somewhat overextended," comments Opinion Dynamics President John Gorman. "Virtually every office, factory, and store in the country has had someone serving a long Reserve tour and the perception of strain is clearly out there. Nevertheless, we can’t lose sight of the fact that a huge majority wants action."

It should be no surprise that Republicans, who are traditionally more likely to be viewed as "hawks," are more likely than Democrats and independents to favor using the military to stop illegal immigrants from entering the country (75 percent of Republicans, 62 percent of Democrats and 63 percent of independents). What is somewhat surprising is that women, a group traditionally less supportive of using the military, are as likely as men to favor using troops for this purpose (67 percent of both women and men favor).

Opinion is divided on eliminating public assistance, such as education and health benefits, to illegal immigrants and their children. Forty-three percent of Americans favor stopping public assistance for illegal immigrants, while 45 percent oppose it.

Even so, a 62 percent majority, including almost equal majorities of Democrats (65 percent) and Republicans (62 percent), favors allowing illegal immigrants who have jobs in the United States to apply for legal, temporary worker status.


I think I'm in the mainstream on this one......

OTB
 

burlboy

Member
Jan 18, 2004
413
0
16
Earth
The Mugger said:
To clarify, the position of the Arch Bishop of Los Angeles - the objection to The US House Representative bill was more about the Church's ability to serve needy Catholics without having to determine the legal status of the needy before doing so and thus avoiding a jail term. I would say that is a valid concern amongst any group committed to social service. Or is this law just another attempt by the Republicans to insist people do things only for themselves - you know boot straps and all.
Of course the church could take their aid to Mexico then they would have to worry about it.
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
Jan 10, 2002
40,753
110
63
Hooterville
www.scubadiving.com
TOVisitor said:
.........
http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/2006/03/why-tom-tancredo-is-racist.html

You hear Tancredo say ONE word about this?

No?

To him, immigration is about dirty Mexicans, not clean Irish.

The idea that the Irish could get visas when Dominicans and Haitians get a one way ticket back and that they're about to build internment camps for the Chinese that China refuses to accept back should be outrageous. Tancredo should be screaming like a chimpanzee about this.

At least Bertie Ahern, the Irish PM, doesn't want any special deals, but he has his own reasons. He wants those EU passport holders back. They're now building Polish bars in Dublin to cater to the new workers.

Remember, any Irish tossed from New York today, can land on their feet in Sydney or Toronto or Brussels tommorow. They have a right to immigrate to any number of countries and as an EU passport holder, can work anywhere in the EU. Americans don't have that right, forget Dominicans.

This, however, would be the break on any bill to jail illegals. You can't jail Mexicans and let the Irish run free and there is no appetite to jail Irish. Which might account for the silence of Tancredo and his Minutmen friends.
Perhaps, just perhaps that's because in 2000 (the year for which I have stats) Mexicans represented 69% of illegal aliens in the US and six countries had more than 100,000 illegal aliens in the US (El Salvador, Guatemala, Columbia, Honduras, China and Ecuador). I don't see Ireland on the list....

Source: http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/shared/aboutus/statistics/Ill_Report_1211.pdf

In fact, even Canada had more illegal aliens in the US in 2000 (47,000) than did Ireland (3,000). Odd example for you to use.

OTB
 

The Mugger

Guest
Sep 27, 2005
592
0
0
burlboy said:
Of course the church could take their aid to Mexico then they would have to worry about it.
HUH!!! Your point is? I believe the LA dioceses is open to all that need aid, so are you saying that the poor of LA should go to Mexico for help. Somehow I don';t think the Catholic Church serves only illegal Mexican Immigrants and the problem of Illegal immigration hardly falls at the feet of the Catholic Church.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts