The book "Why the Allies Won" argues that the nazis could have won World War Two, but failed because of errors on the part of the nazi leadership. Pretend that one of the assassination attempts on Hitler succeeded and you replaced Hitler in the 1920s/1930s. What would you have done differently (and the same) to ensure that Germany conquered the world.
Nazi World
- Thread starter probyn
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Not necessarily. I recommend "In the Presence of Mine Enemies", by Harry Turtledove. It's fiction, but the author is brilliant at alternate history.
If I were in charge of the German empire instead of Hitler, I'd try and convince Japan to attack Russia, instead of getting the US involved. They could have easily conquered all of Asia and been at Russia's borders. Russia couldn't easily fight a two-front war, and wouldn't require so much German focus on the Eastern front, leaving more resources to fight in the west.
Germany was never big enough or powerful enough to defeat the combined forces of Russia, the United States, Britain, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Poland, France, Holland, Greece, Norway,etc.
The fact that they even tried it - I don't know whether to admire them, or think them so fucking stupid it isn't funny.
Even the big bad United States could not (and cannot) conquer and hold countries that don't want to be held. At the current time, the world is just too big a place.
The fact that they even tried it - I don't know whether to admire them, or think them so fucking stupid it isn't funny.
Even the big bad United States could not (and cannot) conquer and hold countries that don't want to be held. At the current time, the world is just too big a place.
I remember a documentary showing Germans in a wheat field in Russia standing over a jeep with maps spread out they were staring off into the endless distance looking completely lost. One German,50 years later was saying to the effect "It just went on and on.There was no end to it.How do you capture something the size of Russia". When he spoke of it, he still had that weary hopelessness in his voice.
Why on earth would a) without a crazy ideology such as National Socialism Germany have wanted to "conquer the world" b) anyone want Germany to have conquered the world. (seemingly you forget a little episode known as Word War I)
The Nazis lost because they made the fatal error of going east into Russia instead of west. That signaled the beginning of the end for them. They just couldn't beat the Russians or take their severe winters. Half of them froze during the battle of Stalingrad.
That's why though! The treaty of Versailles humiliated them beyond their tolerance and this was their way of exacting revenge for losing WW1. When they lost WW1, they lost their pride, honour and were disgraced. The Germans have always been arrogant and egotistical so they couldn't deal with defeat.
well, they couldn't really go west either because the Royal Navy was 20 times the size of the Kriegsmarine and Britain is surrounded by something called the sea. Basically, Hitler royally fucked up by going to war. He lucked in that the French collapsed so quickly and Stalin had just purged 90% of his competent generals. After 42, it was all downhill, fast and nasty for the Third Reich. They took the biggest, baddest and worst pounding that any country has ever gotten in a war and ended up totally pwned. Nothing glorious about any of that shit.
And that was never the plan. Nor was it the reality as they defeated most of their enemies in short order.
Now this is a good bit of revisionist history. It was luck was it? Okay (laughing).
There's a reason the Americans still teach blitzkrieg tactics in their war colleges.
But they damn near did, if not for the resilience of the Russians at Stalingrad. You don't need to capture the whole country, just key strategic points.
Stalingrad was not a strategic point, just about Stalin's pride. The Caucus oil might have been significant but that still would have been long and vulnerable supply lines. The Russians had enough numbers to continue fighting and reestablish production facilities further east. Without a significant increase in manpower and resources, Russia would be unlikely to be conquered. Even a Japanese invasion into the east would have suffered so much from the weather and distance to be ineffective (as they were a few years earlier).
Hitler declared war on USA on 11 December 1941 -- 4 days after Pearl Harbour. As it turned out, of course, this was a bad error. In fact, USA was the only country Hitler actually declared war on - he simply invaded the other countries. Why did H commit this stupid blunder?
The most plausible answer is that H indeed needed Japan to declare war on Russia. By showing Germany's solidarity with Japan in the matter of the Pacific, H hoped to make Japan reciprocate, in the matter of Russia. If Japan had declared war on Russia in Dec 1941, WW2 would surely have ended differently.
H's DoW against USA was aimed at getting Russia to move many divisions to far-east Russia to counter the new threat from Japan. However, Hitler was less fortunate in his choice of allies than Churchill.
If you had been reviewing the situation at 10.20am on 4 June 1942, from the Allied side, you would certainly not have seen it as funny. Germany and Japan had, for the last several years, been invading country after country. They were sinking ships, winning battles, inflicting devastation, capturing prisoners, and sweeping aside all opposition. They had expanded their empires on a colossal scale, and were absolutely poised to continue with more of the same. The beginning of June 1942 was a time of despair for the Allies. You could say that things were going badly - if you had it in mind to make the understatement of the century.
That morning, the Japanese were fighting off attacks against their aircraft-carriers at Midway -- and doing so very successfully. Several squadrons of torpedo bombers - forced to attack without fighter escort - had been shot down (every plane). None of the four carriers had been scratched. The Japanese were poised to invade Midway and set up a base there, from which an invasion of Hawaii, was the next step - and then of America?
But then, at 10.25am, after months of the US being constantly pushed back in defeat and retreat, with no light at the end of the tunnel, three squadrons of US dive bombers appeared over the JP carriers, at the critical moment while the JP fighters were still at ground level mopping up the torpedo bombers.
Scratch four flat-tops, as they say in the movies. Now, it is JP's turn to retreat. No more invasions. Now there's nothing left but to fight to the last man to keep what they thought they'd won.
The impact and decisiveness of the Midway battle really cannot be over-emphasized. Midway Changed Everything.
A few weeks later, Rommel was defeated at Alamein, and not long after that, the Russians counter-attacked at Stalingrad. Now, the Allies really were starting to look overwhelming.
But at the beginning of June 1942, anyone who dared to suggest that there was even the slightest chance of getting back all that had been lost, would have been regarded as so fucking stupid it isn't funny.
War is not a boardgame like Risk. It's not realistic to try and defeat all the other nations with limited supplies and soldiers.
I suppose if this were a James Bond movie Hilter would have a giant solar powered ray gun.
But I think the only way Germany could have won is to find a way to drive wedges between the Allies or find more support for the Axis. Even then there's the question of straight up could the Germans beat countries one on one.
I suppose if this were a James Bond movie Hilter would have a giant solar powered ray gun.
But I think the only way Germany could have won is to find a way to drive wedges between the Allies or find more support for the Axis. Even then there's the question of straight up could the Germans beat countries one on one.
To the contrary, the German leadership and military were crystal clear on their lack of resources. That's why their strategy was quick wars won through overwhelming technical, aggressive, and tactical battles (what would become known as blitzkrieg). That's why they didn't bother building heavy (strategic) bombers; it went against what they were trying to do. Moreso than any other nation, the Germans learned from WWI and sought to avoid the slow, grinding battles of attrition that plagued that conflict. Instead, they wanted "quick wins" that their armed forces were designed specifically for.
The German planners estimated that their country could wage "total war" for a period of 12-18 months, tops. Thus, they had to win quickly. The fact that Germany went on to fight the world for 5 1/2 years is a testament to the tenacity, devotion, skill, ingenuity, and ruthlessness that they displayed. They far exceeded even their own estimations of their capabilities (made all the more impressive by the fact that Germany didn't truly engage in total war until early 1942 and their economic output was never fully maximized; e.g., women in the work force).
