Peace bond or restraining order

[jw01]

All

I assume someone here has some good knowledge of all a peace bond vs police reports.

My gf's sister is harassed or at least been threatned by a guy she dated previously. she apparently fears that he will do something in return if she reports his name or stops reponding to him; so she continues to talk to him via text and pretends everything is OK hoping he will just stop at some point??? like wtf. I was under the impression a restraining order should work, but i am told a Peace Bond should be filed. She fears the guy will come after her and do something violent and therefore pretends to have an odd relationship via SMS. I had her bf come talk to me b/c he he is worried about her and also, i feel the fkd up guy has brainwashed her into thinking he will do something. apparently he sells weed and has a gun or something.....knowing all this, i dont know if a peace bond is sufficient and b/c that dude is bi-polar so not sure what he is capable of doing. i am not sure what proof she has (may be some SMS?)

anyways, just wanted to get some thoughts from on whats the best and discreet way to get this issue fixed.

thanks

 

[Viggo Rasmussen]

First she'll need to stop messaging and tell him she wants no contact, then get a peace bond if he doesn't comply with her request.

 

[BlueLaser]

She needs to visit her local police station or Tony Soprano.

I say before she hits up the cops, she should consult with a lawyer. OP is asking legal questions, I'd trust a lawyer to know the law and what options are available before I'd trust a cop. Especially a cop working a desk which is usually a sign they fucked up somewhere along the line in their career.

 

[demien2k5]

I think it's obvious who's naive. 70,000 police in Canada. Thousands of interactions between police and the public every day. How many are negative? I don't mean someone holds a grudge because they think a cop wasted their time when the cop did absolutely nothing wrong, I mean how many are legitimately cops overstepping their bounds? 1 a week? 2? 3? Out of thousands a day?

Better yet, for every case of police going too far, you can, if you actually bothered to look for them, find cops going above and beyond. Cops who not only give directions, but actually guide people there, takes photos with tourists, etc.

The idea that cops are, inherently, bad people, is bullshit. They are inherently no different than you or I. And like you and I, some of them are assholes. Welcome to life and society where in every walk of and in every job, you will run into assholes.

I say before she hits up the cops, she should consult with a lawyer. OP is asking legal questions, I'd trust a lawyer to know the law and what options are available before I'd trust a cop. Especially a cop working a desk which is usually a sign they fucked up somewhere along the line in their career.

So, what you're saying is that cops are essentially mostly all good, well meaning people, but they just don't have a goddamn clue about the law, and you'd personally never trust them to provide you with advice as it pertains to the law. Kinda makes me wonder how the fuck all these well meaning cops are managing to do such a bang up job when according to you they haven't really got a clue about what they're doing. Must all just be a happy coincidence.

 

[Aardvark154]

This is best left to talking to the police and/or a Lawyer in person as to which is her better choice. Restraining Orders, Protective Orders, and Peace Bonds very widely between jurisdictions, for instance Peace Bonds are not available in most of the U.S., but are quite common in Canada. Restraining Orders and Protective Orders have radically different requirements in some jurisdictions while in others they are virtually synonymous.

 

[Carmen Jonesxo]

I was in a situation where I wanted to get a peace bond against someone who was physically abusive and threatening. I went to the court and was given a 3 page handout. I was told to fill it out and then a Justice of Peace would look at it and then decide based on the information I have if this person was in fact dangerous. I was told after the JP reviewed my application myself and the person would have to appear in court.

Overall I found the peace bond process unhelpful. I was told it could take months to come into effect. And after it's all said and done the JP could rule I'm not in danger if he didn't see the person as a threat. Also I feared the person would be angry after receiving an order to appear in court. So, I left without filling that firm out and dealt with the matter on my own.

In my opinion, if she wants to get a peace bond she should start gathering evidence of any abuse and threats. Otherwise, she may find her request being denied by a JP who doesn't see how this guy is a threat to her. That is what I feared would happen to me as my abuser had the ability to appear like a ""good guy"
and I didn't tell anyone about the abuse. Evidence will be key. She should stop pretending everything is OK because that will not work well for her if she does decide to get the peace bond. All contact should stop. I wish her the best as this is not a pleasant situation.

 

[mandrill]

First off, she needs to document everything that he has done so far. There is a charge of "criminal harrassment" which is levelled against overly persistent rejected suitors. The behaviour must be pretty egregious - emails 10xx a day, following around, notes persistently left, etc.

Normal mournful ex lover stuff doesn't get the job done. When it edges into disturbing and crazy, that's when you call the cops.

If there is a threat to injure or destroy property, then the cops will lay another charge of "threatening".

A peace bond also requires a threat of bodily harm or destruction of property IIRC.

A restraining order is a Family Court remedy and requires a Family Court litigation about custody or support to be available.

If you can give specifics, I would be glad to post further advice.

 

[mandrill]

I was in a situation where I wanted to get a peace bond against someone who was physically abusive and threatening. I went to the court and was given a 3 page handout. I was told to fill it out and then a Justice of Peace would look at it and then decide based on the information I have if this person was in fact dangerous. I was told after the JP reviewed my application myself and the person would have to appear in court.

Overall I found the peace bond process unhelpful. I was told it could take months to come into effect. And after it's all said and done the JP could rule I'm not in danger if he didn't see the person as a threat. Also I feared the person would be angry after receiving an order to appear in court. So, I left without filling that firm out and dealt with the matter on my own.

In my opinion, if she wants to get a peace bond she should start gathering evidence of any abuse and threats. Otherwise, she may find her request being denied by a JP who doesn't see how this guy is a threat to her. That is what I feared would happen to me as my abuser had the ability to appear like a ""good guy" and I didn't tell anyone about the abuse. Evidence will be key. She should stop pretending everything is OK because that will not work well for her if she does decide to get the peace bond. All contact should stop. I wish her the best as this is not a pleasant situation.

Thanks, Carmen. This is very important. The cops / judge want to see CLEAR EVIDENCE that the guy has been told to stop and that she is no longer interested in him playing any further part in her life. There should be clear, unequivocal, repeated, persistent and consistent evidence on this point. So she can't "be nice and maybe he will go away" and then complain he is too creepy and persistent.

Of course, if she has evidence of a clear threat, then that act - just by itself - means he committed a criminal offence and the cops will help out.

 

[BlueLaser]

So, what you're saying is that cops are essentially mostly all good, well meaning people, but they just don't have a goddamn clue about the law, and you'd personally never trust them to provide you with advice as it pertains to the law. Kinda makes me wonder how the fuck all these well meaning cops are managing to do such a bang up job when according to you they haven't really got a clue about what they're doing. Must all just be a happy coincidence.

Lulwat? Since when were cops supposed to be as good at the law as lawyers? And since when does someone need to be good at all quasi-related occupations to be "well-meaning" and "good"? I'm a pilot, should I know all the air traffic controller rules as well as they do? Should air traffic controllers know all mine?

A cop does roughly 18 months training in all aspects of their job from the law they need to know, to driving, to conflict resolution, to firearms training, etc. A lawyer spends 4 years JUST studying law. You expect cops to know as much as lawyers? When someone is getting a divorce, should they hire a cop or a lawyer? Need to make a will? If the cop can't help you with that, damien2k5 says he's not only a bad cop, but a bad person. Want to sue someone? Fuck lawyers, they're expensive, just call a cop.

Troll harder or give it up. You aren't very good at it.

 

[BlueLaser]

I was in a situation where I wanted to get a peace bond against someone who was physically abusive and threatening. I went to the court and was given a 3 page handout. I was told to fill it out and then a Justice of Peace would look at it and then decide based on the information I have if this person was in fact dangerous. I was told after the JP reviewed my application myself and the person would have to appear in court.

Overall I found the peace bond process unhelpful. I was told it could take months to come into effect. And after it's all said and done the JP could rule I'm not in danger if he didn't see the person as a threat. Also I feared the person would be angry after receiving an order to appear in court. So, I left without filling that firm out and dealt with the matter on my own.

In my opinion, if she wants to get a peace bond she should start gathering evidence of any abuse and threats. Otherwise, she may find her request being denied by a JP who doesn't see how this guy is a threat to her. That is what I feared would happen to me as my abuser had the ability to appear like a ""good guy"
and I didn't tell anyone about the abuse. Evidence will be key. She should stop pretending everything is OK because that will not work well for her if she does decide to get the peace bond. All contact should stop. I wish her the best as this is not a pleasant situation.

Complex legal forms, complex legal process, lots of dealing with the legal system and time spent in court? Gee....I wonder why I would recommend lawyer........

 

[demien2k5]

Lulwat? Since when were cops supposed to be as good at the law as lawyers? And since when does someone need to be good at all quasi-related occupations to be "well-meaning" and "good"? I'm a pilot, should I know all the air traffic controller rules as well as they do? Should air traffic controllers know all mine?

A cop does roughly 18 months training in all aspects of their job from the law they need to know, to driving, to conflict resolution, to firearms training, etc. A lawyer spends 4 years JUST studying law. You expect cops to know as much as lawyers? When someone is getting a divorce, should they hire a cop or a lawyer? Need to make a will? If the cop can't help you with that, damien2k5 says he's not only a bad cop, but a bad person. Want to sue someone? Fuck lawyers, they're expensive, just call a cop.

Troll harder or give it up. You aren't very good at it.

How are cops expected to adequately enforce the laws of the land if they don't know what they are, or understand their intent? If there is an existing law(s) in place, particularly for common criminal and civil situations/circumstances, a citizen should be able to ask a cop if a particular action(s) contravenes those laws and what can be done to enforce them. The police will always be able to tell you what THEY can/should be able to do for you in terms of law enforcement, and where you'll need to engage a lawyer. Try to stay with the flow of the discussion, dum-dum - no one mentioned engaging police to get a divorce, making a will, or for suing anyone.

 

[Sal1979]

Just kick his ass with a few buddies, and make sure to do enough damage that he gets the point the first time.

Or be a nice guy and let him know that he should cease all contact immediately or option 1 above is final choice.

Police and the court system will only help out after the fact, which could be to late.

 

[BlueLaser]

How are cops expected to adequately enforce the laws of the land if they don't know what they are, or understand their intent? If there is an existing law(s) in place, particularly for common criminal and civil situations/circumstances, a citizen should be able to ask a cop if a particular action(s) contravenes those laws and what can be done to enforce them. The police will always be able to tell you what THEY can/should be able to do for you in terms of law enforcement, and where you'll need to engage a lawyer. Try to stay with the flow of the discussion, dum-dum - no one mentioned engaging police to get a divorce, making a will, or for suing anyone.

Instead of trolling me, read the thread. Carmen Jonesxo explained how the process involves legal paperwork and court appearances. That's much more along the vein of divorce proceedings, wills and lawsuits than it is police work. I agree: try to stay with the flow of the discussion. And while you're at it, try and learn a little bit about police work. Police get handed a court order, they read and exercise the powers contained within it. No more, no less (assuming they do their job properly). That doesn't mean they have to understand the differences between two types of court orders, how to fill out the paperwork properly, what sort of evidence is required, etc.

What can police do? Fuck all. This is a CIVIL matter. If he makes a threat and says he's on his way over, the cops can show up and put him in handcuffs. But here's a big newsflash for you: cops don't really have much say in who gets prosecuted in criminal cases. They collect evidence, conduct interviews, and whatever other legwork is needed, and turn everything over to the Crown who decides. So your statement that if a police officer can't tell you how to fill out a legal document or prepare for court that means they aren't "good people" is ridiculous. Up to speed yet?

 

[Huuge]

Keep in mind a piece of paper is just a piece of paper

 

[Aardvark154]

Keep in mind a piece of paper is just a piece of paper

If by this you mean that someone absolutely driven to murder will murder despite a Protection Order/Restraining Order, sadly this is true.

If on the other hand you mean that violating a Protection Order/Restraining Order has minimal to no consequences you are very much mistaken.

While I don't know about Toronto, out in the rest of the world in a day and age of computerized records a great percentage of police agencies enter every protection order they receive from the courts into their computer systems such that any call for service from one of those addresses is flagged a top priority call.

 

[Ms.FemmeFatale]

Complex legal forms, complex legal process, lots of dealing with the legal system and time spent in court? Gee....I wonder why I would recommend lawyer........

A lawyer is not usually going to address the minor matters of a Peace Bond. So you may feel good about recommending a lawyer but since no lawyer takes these cases you are patting an empty back for no reason. Sorry.

Sadly this is something {restraining orders} that from my experience, the courts want the cops/criminal judges to handle. Restrictions on a person to another person is usually placed at the time of a crime. So at the time of the arrest by police, at the time of release by police or at the time of bail/sentencing by a judge. It is not an actual order more like a condition of bail, probation or parole.

In family court a retraining order may be awarded in spousal issues. However that is for family court meaning divorce and seperations, etc.

The system sucks because even with an order, a person can usually weasel their way around it so long as no physical harm is done as the police will not lay a charge of breach. That is of course if you can get an order. Which again usually only happens when a crime is committed and an arrest is made. Also, calling the police, even 911 is an order of priority and if you have not been beaten yet, you are not a priority even if the person is threaten to come over and kill you. They tell you to leave and go to a friends they he doesn't know and wait for police there. If this is a Friday or Saturday night, you are not seeing a cop until the morning.

Also keep in mind that if you leave and he does damage to your place, he will most likely not be arrested either with out some serious proof, like video evidence. Common sense can not get a conviction, evidence does - is the line I was told.

The peace bond route is as described. You go to your local court house, you fill out the papers with as much evidence as you have, you hand them in. You then have the serve the person. Which makes no sense to me. The person has to have an actual fixed address and the two of you come back to the courthouse to meet with the JP and he decides then. All without a lawyer. At most you can use the duty counsel office located in all courthouses. Usually takes up to 6-8 weeks.

To the OP - tell her to send a cease communication text and email. Copy them. There are block services on most phones now-a-days so use it. Record all future forms of communication. Take them to the local police station, take the card of each officer. Do it 3 times and when no cop makes an arrest, next speak to a staff sergeant and request a incident report is made if one has not been. Keep doing this. Keep going to the same staff sergeant. DO NOT RETURN ANY communication even to say stop again. Eventually the police will do something. YOU just have to keep going, in person, recording everything. Every time you go to the police, every single time.

Good luck

 

[demien2k5]

Instead of trolling me, read the thread. Carmen Jonesxo explained how the process involves legal paperwork and court appearances. That's much more along the vein of divorce proceedings, wills and lawsuits than it is police work. I agree: try to stay with the flow of the discussion. And while you're at it, try and learn a little bit about police work. Police get handed a court order, they read and exercise the powers contained within it. No more, no less (assuming they do their job properly). That doesn't mean they have to understand the differences between two types of court orders, how to fill out the paperwork properly, what sort of evidence is required, etc.

What can police do? Fuck all. This is a CIVIL matter. If he makes a threat and says he's on his way over, the cops can show up and put him in handcuffs. But here's a big newsflash for you: cops don't really have much say in who gets prosecuted in criminal cases. They collect evidence, conduct interviews, and whatever other legwork is needed, and turn everything over to the Crown who decides. So your statement that if a police officer can't tell you how to fill out a legal document or prepare for court that means they aren't "good people" is ridiculous. Up to speed yet?

I'll bring it down to your grade two reading level, ok dum-dum?

Re-read the OP. GF says former date is threatening her, and may be in possession of a gun. First stop for GF? Hello? Police? This is my story, and my evidence. Police: Under the law, and given the evidence that a crime has/is being committed there a) is something we can/must do based on our mandate. b) is nothing we can do, you should see a lawyer. There is an expectation that the police are sufficiently trained and can be trusted to understand the law enough make that simple differentiation. Police are routinely called upon to make a situational decision on whether or not matters are civil or criminal in nature. In many cases, it is the police who lay criminal charges, not just average citizens. If police assess and determine there is, in their estimation, insufficient evidence of clear criminal intent or activity, police will refer a petitioner to the civil court system to pursue administrative justice. If the court system subsequently determines a crime is/has indeed been committed, they may call upon the police to enforce the law, and any court orders issued.

In this case, sounds like the police have not yet been consulted, or determined that their is/is not insufficient evidence that a crime has/is being committed which requires them to act. It also appears an actual lawyer has not yet been consulted. My advice would be police first if she feels imminently at risk, lawyer second. Otherwise, lawyer first who can help her navigate the administrative system and its variety of available options.

I think you need to brush up on the actual roles that police, the courts, and lawyers each play in modern, civilized societies.

 

[Aardvark154]

The system sucks because even with an order, a person can usually weasel their way around it so long as no physical harm is done as the police will not lay a charge of breach. That is of course if you can get an order. . . .

Also keep in mind that if you leave and he does damage to your place, he will most likely not be arrested either with out some serious proof, like video evidence.

Not that I have reason to doubt your statement, but if true you will find a radically different world 132 Km by road, 56 or so km by water away in the State of New York.

 

[Ms.FemmeFatale]

Not that I have reason to doubt your statement, but if true you will find a radically different world 132 Km by road, 56 or so km by water away in the State of New York.

It was true in my case and a few others that I know of. Keyed cars in the driveway, damage to property, even break and enter. In each case it was known who the person was, police did not lay charges because of lack of evidence and the threat to come and do bodily harm is not enough evidence.

In one case, even a trip to the MPP's office for help because the woman was literally being stalked, went no where. It wasn't until an assault finally happened that she got protection. Pretty fucked eh?

Canada is a "do after" country it seems.

 

[mandrill]

It was true in my case and a few others that I know of. Keyed cars in the driveway, damage to property, even break and enter. In each case it was known who the person was, police did not lay charges because of lack of evidence and the threat to come and do bodily harm is not enough evidence.

In one case, even a trip to the MPP's office for help because the woman was literally being stalked, went no where. It wasn't until an assault finally happened that she got protection. Pretty fucked eh?

Canada is a "do after" country it seems.

Yes, the keyed car, brick through window, shit on your doorknob stunts are impossible to prove and the cops will do nada. It's simply that the vic cannot prove these beyond a reasonable doubt in criminal court and thus, the cops will not lay the charge. At the same time, everybody is 99% sure who probably did those stunts.

I'm sure the State of New York is no further ahead, as it all relates to the high requirements of proof in a criminal case - and that's a fundamental part of our system.

Recently, I had a female complainant whose car was keyed in a LOCKED GARAGE. Only 2 people had the key - her and her psycho, prick ex. She called the cops. The cops went to see Mr Creep and he told them that she "must have keyed the car herself to get even with me." Result - no charge laid.

The Creep then complained to family court judge that my client was fabricating complaints against him!!!!