Plumbers and electricians will rape you good!.......Is there any truth to that?
- Thread starter HAMSTER INSPECTOR
- Start date
Danolo:
For one thing, the guy had to go out to your place to find out what system you had in order to order the pump you needed. Do you expect all plumbers to carry an inventory in their truck of all pumps?
What you did is out and out extortion.
As for the cost of tradespeople: you guys pay for an hour with an escort yet bitch about paying an hour for a guy (for the most part) who has trained for 5 yrs or more to get his ticket? Most likely did the shittiest jobs while apprenticing making minimum wage?
No, don't consider that tradespeople have tools costs, vehicle costs, inventory costs, insurance costs, advertising costs, and above all that they deserve to make a reasonable living. I mean hell, we pay garbage men $35.00 an hour and after expenses a plumber probably makes that.
I don't get it. Your toilet ain't working and many bitch about having to pay a guy to fix it yet what's more important: being able to take a dump INSIDE or cum inside an escort? Sure, you can crap in your backyard but then your neighbours will start complaining.
Yes, home wiring isn't rocket science but like I tell my customers who ask me to run new circuits etc: I don't do anything that can kill you if I make a mistake. I'll replace a light fixture, switch, install a dimmer etc but anything more? Get someone who is licenced. Same as plumbing: if a licenced plumber fucks up and causes a flood, his insurance will cover it. If YOU fuck up and floods your basement, YOU pay for it.
For one thing, the guy had to go out to your place to find out what system you had in order to order the pump you needed. Do you expect all plumbers to carry an inventory in their truck of all pumps?
What you did is out and out extortion.
As for the cost of tradespeople: you guys pay for an hour with an escort yet bitch about paying an hour for a guy (for the most part) who has trained for 5 yrs or more to get his ticket? Most likely did the shittiest jobs while apprenticing making minimum wage?
No, don't consider that tradespeople have tools costs, vehicle costs, inventory costs, insurance costs, advertising costs, and above all that they deserve to make a reasonable living. I mean hell, we pay garbage men $35.00 an hour and after expenses a plumber probably makes that.
I don't get it. Your toilet ain't working and many bitch about having to pay a guy to fix it yet what's more important: being able to take a dump INSIDE or cum inside an escort? Sure, you can crap in your backyard but then your neighbours will start complaining.
Yes, home wiring isn't rocket science but like I tell my customers who ask me to run new circuits etc: I don't do anything that can kill you if I make a mistake. I'll replace a light fixture, switch, install a dimmer etc but anything more? Get someone who is licenced. Same as plumbing: if a licenced plumber fucks up and causes a flood, his insurance will cover it. If YOU fuck up and floods your basement, YOU pay for it.
Rockslinger said:
www.holmesonhomes.com
Go to the forum section.
Though they don't allow naming of contractors, there are some people on there who know what they're talking about.
To me, house wiring is very simple.
Yes, you need to know what you're doing, and yes there are many rules, however, I don't see any reason why a carpenter could not wire a house.
You get it inspected, you're good to go.
One of the first things you look for in wiring is neatness. Are the wires in nice straight lines, are they laid out cleanly and logically in the breaker panel (neutrals below their hots, hots neatly arranged, grounds in back and out of the way - or are they all just crammed like hell into there.)
Are there loops at the boxes in case you need to pull some more wire in the future for whatever reason? Are the wires properly stapled, away from heat sources? Do they run round cold air returns, or through them? Are wires all twisted up or flat? Are wires running all over the place and crisscrossing each other?
Yes, you need to know what you're doing, and yes there are many rules, however, I don't see any reason why a carpenter could not wire a house.
You get it inspected, you're good to go.
One of the first things you look for in wiring is neatness. Are the wires in nice straight lines, are they laid out cleanly and logically in the breaker panel (neutrals below their hots, hots neatly arranged, grounds in back and out of the way - or are they all just crammed like hell into there.)
Are there loops at the boxes in case you need to pull some more wire in the future for whatever reason? Are the wires properly stapled, away from heat sources? Do they run round cold air returns, or through them? Are wires all twisted up or flat? Are wires running all over the place and crisscrossing each other?
James T: you're right. Most carpenters take into consideration the finishing of a project right from the start so whether the work is hidden, or highly visible, they tend to be more conscientious.
We also tend to think about the future as well (least I do) like: if the transformer blows on low voltage lights, is it easy to get to to replace? Same as box locations. I personally make sure they are dead nuts plumb and level. I SO hate seeing a crooked switch or outlet.
We also tend to think about the future as well (least I do) like: if the transformer blows on low voltage lights, is it easy to get to to replace? Same as box locations. I personally make sure they are dead nuts plumb and level. I SO hate seeing a crooked switch or outlet.
The last time I had to call a plumber for a job two guys showed up. One was the plumber and the other was the apprentice. The apprentice largely stands around watching the plumber but you are billed for both their time. What a scam.
I can think of one very good reason. It's illegal.james t kirk said:
If you're doing your own work, get it inspected and you're OK.. or get an electrician to do it and get it inspected. Don't let anyone else do electrical work in your place. If it goes wrong and there's a fire, you could be SOL with you're insurance.
My point is that there are allot of carpenters who know how to wire and will do a better job than allot of electricians. I know, I've seen it.Tangwhich said:
I don't see why a carpenter could not wire a house and get it inspected by the the ESA. End of story.
But you're right, it's a legal matter and it's not about to change.
This would really piss off the electricians and might affect their revenue stream. The is why they have a law known as the "electrician income protection act".james t kirk said:
Considering how long and difficult it is to become an electrician, it's only fair that they make a decent living (and they do a decent job of course). I know guys who don't deserve a penny of what they make. I also know plenty of guys that are so good at what they do that they deserve much much more.Rockslinger said:
Kirk is right..there's plenty of people out there (not just carpenters) that are not electricians but can do decent electrical work. But unless you know the code, you are almost certainly going to make mistakes somewhere along the line. Looking nice does not mean it's safe. Granted, there's bad electricians out there as there are with any kind of occupation but I can't count the number of times I've come to see work done by people who didn't know what they were doing that was quite simply dangerous. If you've ever seen holmes on homes and the kind of electrical garbage you see there, I've seen it all before and worse.
Personally I wouldn't care about non electricians doing basic electrical housework as long as they are getting it inspected. Industrial and commercial is a different kettle of fish though, nobody should be touching that if they don't know what they are doing..
The problem with that is how do we decide who should be allowed to do electrical work? Right now it's a licensed electrician or a registered apprentice under supervision of a licensed electrician. How do we word a change in the law?james t kirk said:
Carpenters are allowed to perform electrical work as long as they get it inspected?
Or perhaps:
A person with reasonable knowledge of electrial work?
What is reasonable?
If we open it up for one non electrician, we have to open it up for everybody.
You're right about what you said earlier, house wiring is not that difficult but so many people still manage to fuck it up. Fuck it up large. I'm not sure what the answer is Kirk.
What I don't get is that ESA has made it so difficult now for people do get a permit (this even included licensed electricians), why are they allowing places like home depot to sell electrical goods?
Here's something that will come as a shock to some. For what ever reason Ontario will allow electrical engineers from other countries to challenge the electrical exam. If they pass, they get their licence, without having to do an hour of apprenticeship. I have seen workers who can barely speak English and have no experience with the same licence I had to work very hard to get. Be careful who you let work on your house.
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More special interest groups laws and more criminals now. More reason NOT TO apply for a permit to do repairs. Lets drive it all underground.
They had to work hard in there own country to get a degree so English is not a qualification for good work. Yes be careful and get an independent inspector from Hydro to check on even the real electricians333conan said:
PS use spell check to help with your excellent English skills you have acquired
yes, I missed one letter. However, you seem to missing the point. If the person I am trying to teach can't understand what I am telling him, it doesn't matter how hard he works, he will still won't have the proper skills . You must somehow think an electrician and an electrical engineer are the same thing. Engineers design things, we actually have to do the work. I have no problem with them getting in the trade, but everyone should have to do an apprenticeship so they can be taught to do the job correctly.lavameltme said:
