Saddam captured

[jwmorrice]

Always a McFly in the ointment.

jwm

 

[Goober Mcfly]

Well, I could say that Saddam killed 1.3 million Canadians as well. Without proof, it means nothing.

 

[papasmerf]

Well, I could say that Saddam killed 1.3 million Canadians as well. Without proof, it means nothing.

Come on Goob, fact has little to do with accusations.

 

[Goober Mcfly]

Good point, papasmerf.

Here, I did a little research of my own. Check out this website -> http://www.iraqbodycount.net/bodycount.htm

If you look at the data, you'll see casualties from car-bombs, suicide bombs, etc. which (while attributable to the war) were not perepetrated by the US. As well, you'll see the major numbers come from Hospital and morgue records for the month. How do we know that these aren't being counted twice?

Yes, war sucks and innocents get killed. But overstating totals helps noone.

 

[Captain Bly]

Well, at least we can give Saddam some credit for sticking around. He could have been in Switzerland or Brazil by now.

What makes you think the real SH isn't in Switzerland while his double(s) live in holes in the ground?

 

[djk]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Great news, but....

Theres good documentaton at http://www.iraqbodycount.org and that includes only civilian deaths that can be documented.... many sources say that there are mnay more deaths never reported or docuemnted. Iraq Body Count estimates approx 8,000 to ten-thousand civilian deaths documented.

Not all of the deaths are from US bombing, thats true, but all the deaths were a result of the chaos and destruction that US unleashed in that country....

And then their are all the uncounted Iraqi consripts that had to die for Bush's impatience.... son, brothers, husbands, fathers whose only crime was to be in their countrys army and defend it from foreign invasion.

It's funny.

Saddam kills up to 61,000 of his countrymen over 20 years and not a peep from liberals, anti-war protesters, democrats, etc.

America invades Iraq, 8,000 to 10,000 civilians die and Bush Jr is the next Hilter.

I'll treat this attitude seriously when they can apply their "one death is one too many" attitude with the same intensity.

Cheers,

-djk

 

[*d*]

proof

This is undocumented HORSESHIT from a third rate newsource printed on a politically biased website. I have a visceral hate for George Bush, yet I will not let that override my quest for the TRUTH. Would you care to provide some links to the so called Senate Report so that people interested in the truth can read for themselves. We have reference to some "secret reports" and nobody of any authority cited as a source of this material. The Senate reports are in the public domain. The fact is they refer to "dual use" technology. Furthermore, without any access to those reports, one must take for granted that the authors with their obvious agenda, are credible as interpretors of the information contained in that report.

You are proof again that SARS is still loose in Canada. That would be Systemic Anal Retentive Stupidity.

EBS

From the NY Times '95: US military contractor Teledyne industries sold cluster bomb parts to Chile to be assembled and shipped to Iraq. CIA authorized and approved the shipment as per CIA director William J. Casey. The '82 National Security Directive had William Casey personally spearhead the effort to ensure that Iraq had sufficient military weapons to avoid losing a war against Iran. This followed with Bush Sr's endorsement in '89 to continue arming Iraq even after Saddam was known to have gassed his own people.
You won't find this in the Senate reports because when Howard Teicher, a former national security official under Ronald Reagan, came forward with this startling affidavit in the Teledyne case, the Clinton administration attacked Teicher's credibility and ordered his report sealed as a national security secret. Federal prosecutors then convinced judges to block Teicher's testimony when Teledyne Industries was up on charges for sending arms to Iraq. Never hearing about Teicher or his affidavit, the courts found Teledyne salesman Johnson guilty of violating the Arms Export Control Act. Johnson was sentenced to 3 1/2 years in prison. His sentence started Jan. 4, 1996.
I also found this Nov.‘02 realplayer audio(43 min. long) that’s a good outline of what the Iraqgate scandal was all about. Its an interview with Alan Friedman, reporter for the Financial Times and author of the ‘93 book ‘Spider’s Web’. So if you have 43 minutes to spare, sit back and enjoy.
http://stream.realimpact.net/rihurl.ram?file=webactive/demnow/dn20021114.ra&start=15:59.6

 

[Ickabod]

It will be interesting to see how the liberals handle this one (his war-crimes trial). As Fang said, the world court won't sentence him to death. But an Iraqi tribunal would certainly impose the capital punishment on him.

So, the liberals don't want the West mucking about in the affairs of others. Should Hussein be tried under Muslim law? Especially if it means he'll be (probably) beheaded or something like that...?

Or should the world get involved now...

*awaits *d*'s (and others) thoughts*

There won't be a trial. Once we get whatever we can out of him that could be considered positive to "the cause", he'll suddenly "commit suicide". Remember, you heard it here first.

 

[Ickabod]

Come on Goob, fact has little to do with accusations.

Unless, of course, they are accusations against previously serving Democratic Presidents (who happened to serve in the 90's.....but we ain't naming names) and their family members.

 

[djk]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Great news, but....

Wasn't much of a peep from Republicans either (how could they when they suported Saddam?) until they needed a pretext to invade and occupy the country..... Also I don't think that killing eight to 10 thousand civilians is excusable just because Saddam killed ten times that number. Do you think its excusable?

Yeah, shame on most Republicans for not rising to action sooner.

Look at the context here. There's a difference between Saddam that kills his citizens on a whim and casualities suffered in a war that is to remove him.

Yes, sadly, people will die but it is for the greater good, the removal of Saddam.

Does that mean we should not employ preventive measures that will reduce the amount of cilivian causalities. Of course not but at the same time, it is unrealistic to use that an excuse for a reason not to remove a tyrant.

Personally, I think the US is damned if they do and damned if they don't. Remember, the Balkans, Liberia and Rwanda?

Cheers,

-djk

 

[peteeey]

U.S. army doctors officially confirmed today that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Saddam's mouth.

 

[CyberGoth]

ROFL!

 

[BigBlack]

I heard on the news that most of his followers were embarrassed that he didn't go out guns firing and martyr himself like his son's did. If he breaks from the questioning, he'll look like a bigger pussy.

The fact that nobody got the $25 million (he was given away by another during questioning after capture and therefore will receive jack), is such a waste.

BBLACK

 

[james t kirk]

There won't be a trial. Once we get whatever we can out of him that could be considered positive to "the cause", he'll suddenly "commit suicide". Remember, you heard it here first.

Very true.

And really, it would be good for the world if it did happen.

Saddam can sing all he wants about who supported him militarily, it won't change a thing in the grand scheme of the world.

 

[james t kirk]

It is interesting how a thread about the capture of Saddam has managed to devolve into Bush bashing, Clinton bashing (both Bill and Hillary), American and Canadian bashing... let's see, have I missed anybody? Oh, how could I forget? The "towelhead" comment.

So I will continue it... I am not a Bush fan and do not believe he is the publicly elected POTUS. He holds the position on technicality only. Moreover, I think he is a dolt. I am personally embarrassed by him and my country's diminished international stature due to him. On the other hand, I did vote for Clinton twice, and although I wouldn't want him to date my sister, I thought he was an intelligent, humane, thoughtful, president. In business, it is typical to blame the previous regime for current misfortunes, and of course the seeds of today were planted during his administration, but I don't see the logic in the statement that his philandering and subsequent impeachment has anything to do with the situation in the Middle East. As far as I am concerned, all that was as well as the Whitewater crap was a bunch of trumped up sour grapes from Republicans who were pissed Clinton beat the pants off of their boys in two straight presidential elections.

As far as 2004 goes, all I know is I had a net worth in 2000 which was 2.5 times what it is today, my Federal Government's budget surplus is all gone, and I am not sure how openly I want it to be known that I am an American when I travel overseas anymore.

Great post dude.

I don't think you have to worry about telling people in Toronto that you are american.

Though, you might run into a few nutbars who think you are somehow george bush's brother or something just by virtue of being an american in toronto.

Personally, i like americans just fine.

 

[MuffinMuncher]

Homonger, before you start to criticize our Presidential election process, perhaps you should educate yourself on how it works. The only thing worse than a know-it-all is an ignorant know-it-all.

GWB was elected by the same method as every one of his predecessors. The Electoral College (no, it is not an actual college, so dont think you can visit it) is based on popular votes by state..... not in sum total for the nation.... and although Gore accumulated the most popular votes, he (and everyone except a few whiny liberals) knew in advance that he needed to accumulate the most Electoral votes.

Stick to things you know something about....

 

[wrong hole]

GWB was elected by the same method as every one of his predecessors. The Electoral College (no, it is not an actual college, so dont think you can visit it) is based on popular votes by state..... not in sum total for the nation.... and although Gore accumulated the most popular votes, he (and everyone except a few whiny liberals) knew in advance that he needed to accumulate the most Electoral votes.

Hey MM

I don't really care about politics......I just like BBBJ's

....but here's an interest article about the Bush election

also there was an article in the 'New Yorker' a couple years back saying with the help of Jeb they disallowed 'Blacks' with a criminal record to vote...but just not the criminals themselves but their entire family....apparently Blacks in the US generally vote Democratic...


"Three years after the 2000 Election, there's still a lot of confusion. What really happened? Did Bush lose or did he just stop Gore from overturning a narrow but legitimate election? Did Gore mess up by asking for partial counts or did Bush cheat? And what about all those people thrown off the voting rolls by Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris - the Florida Co-Chairs of Bush for President?

To resolve these questions, all that matters is Florida State law. It doesn't matter what Bush or Gore wanted - and you got that wrong anyway. Al Gore called for a state wide count during both phases of the process. But that doesn't matter. All that matters is Florida State law which requires determining the clear intent of the voter.

The Florida Supreme Court properly ruled that under Florida Law, when a voter writes "Al Gore" and circles "Al Gore" the intent is clear. This is a vote for Al Gore. Also, ballots where a voter punched the card but the hole didn't clear completely are votes unless there were partial holes (blocked by chads) for more than one candidate. But when a voter punches Al Gore and Pat Buchanan, it's impossible to tell which one the voters wanted. So that is a ruined vote.

Machines often cannot tell a clear legal vote from an unclear wasted vote. Sometimes the punch cards stick together and the machines cannot read either of them. When disputed ballots could change the apparent outcome, Florida law requires a hand counts. That happened in Florida, and by law there should have been a full, fair hand count. There never was. The US Supreme Court "changed" Florida law by overturning the FL SC ruling.

It gets worse. Pro-Bush Floridians counted all the possible votes for Bush, but Bush sent in the lawyers who sued to block hand counts which might have helped Gore. When it favored Bush, Pro-Bush officials held hand-counts in 6 counties which favored Bush, but if it might favor Gore, the Republicans claimed neither vote should count, which is in violation of the law. That's immoral, dishonest and wrong. It's also wrong to claim Gore tried to block any military votes. Right wingers claim that happened, but it never did. Bush officials threw out Gore votes, not the other way around.

Florida judges - trusted with running court rooms where the decisions over life or death are made - were presiding over the counts ongoing when Scalia issued the emergency order to halt the counts. Scalia decided not to trust these people entrusted with ultimate judgment to count votes, and feared that if it turned out Bush lost it might "cause irreparable harm" to Bush's chances to be President.

After these artificial, intentionally delays, the pro-Bush 5 complained there wasn't enough time to complete the counts - which was also a lie. Hawaii's Electoral Votes for the 1960 Election didn't come in until January 1961 and they counted. So first Scalia and then the pro-Bush 5 threw out the votes and overturned the 2000 election. No other election in US history ended this way, with 10,000s of valid ballots ignored.

Bush cheated, but Gore won anyway, so Bush sued the voters. Bush stole the 2000 election, and the GOP plans to steal the 2004 election as well."

 

[Goober Mcfly]

*hands wrong hole a hat composed of a product produced by Alcan*

 

[Ickabod]

At the beginning members of the college where not obliged to vote the way the population voted because of concerns that an uneducated populus might elect an unqualified popular leader.

Ladies and gentlemen, to prove the level of foresight of our American founding fathers, i present to you a one George W Bush.

 

[papasmerf]

Ladies and gentlemen, to prove the level of foresight of our American founding fathers, i present to you a one George W Bush.

Face it Bush won.
Get over it and spend more time teaching Floridians how to punch a fucking hole in a card. .