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groggy

Banned
Mar 21, 2011
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It does not deal with marriage. It deals with who can and cannot immigrate as a result of marriage, which is completely different.
Oh no, it has absolutely no effects on marriage whatsoever. - (that was sarcastic, by the way)
But we are getting closer, first, you admitted its a law.
Now, you are admitting the law uses the word marriage in it, that's another step.

Next, you have to make the connection that the words law, marriage, Palestinian (or for accuracy, residents of the West Bank and Gaza) are all in the same law. Soon we'll have your comprehension skills up to about grade six, and you might even get it.

Good work.
 

groggy

Banned
Mar 21, 2011
15,256
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Correct. It has to do with who can immigrate to Israel.
Typical, even after posting that it was sarcasm, you didn't get it.

Here, I'll put the wiki description of the law down here again, maybe this time you'll be able to connect all the words in the sentence together.

The Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law (Temporary Order) 5763 is an Israeli law first passed on 31 July, 2003 and most recently extended in June 2008.[1] The law makes inhabitants of the West Bank and Gaza Strip ineligible for the automatic granting of Israeli citizenship and residency permits that is usually available through marriage to an Israeli citizen (ie Family reunification).
 

Mervyn

New member
Dec 23, 2005
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The Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law (temporary provision) 5763 - 2003
(Unofficial Translation)

Definitions
1.
In this law -
"area" - any one of the following: Judea and Samaria, and the Gaza Strip;
"Citizenship Law" - The Citizenship Law, 5712 - 1952;
"Entry into Israel Law" - Entry into Israel Law, 5712 - 1952;
"Area Commander" - the commander of the Israel Defense Forces in the area;
"inhabitant of an area" - including anyone residing in the area, even though he is not registered in the population register of the area, and excluding the inhabitant of an Israeli settlement in the area.
Limitation of citizenship and stay in Israel
2.
During the period in which this law shall remain in force, despite what is said in any legal provision, including article 7 of the Citizenship Law, the Minister of the Interior shall not grant the inhabitant of an area citizenship on the basis of the Citizenship law, and shall not give him a license to reside in Israel on the basis of the Entry into Israel Law, and the Area Commander shall not grant a said inhabitant, a permit to stay in Israel, on the basis with the security legislation in the area.
Reservations
3.
Despite the instructions of article 2 -


(1)
The Minister of the Interior, or the Area Commander, as the case may be, is entitled to grant an inhabitant of an area a license to reside in Israel, or a permit to stay in Israel, for a fixed period, for the purpose of work, or in order to receive medical treatment, and also for some other temporary purpose - for a cumulative period of no more than six months, as well as a license to reside in Israel, or a permit to stay in Israel in order to prevent the separation of a child, aged up to 12, from its parent who is staying in Israel legally;


(2)
The Minister of the Interior is entitled to grant citizenship, or provide a license to reside in Israel, to an inhabitant of an area, if he is convinced that he identifies with the State of Israel and its goals, and that he or a member of his family performed a significant act to promote the security, economy or some other important matter of the State, or that the granting of citizenship or provision of the license to reside in Israel, are of special interest to the State; In this paragraph, "member of family" - spouse, parent, child.
Transition regulations
4.
Despite the instructions of this law -


(1)
The Minister of the Interior or the Area Commander, as the case may be, is entitled to prolong the validity of a license to reside in Israel, or of a permit to stay in Israel, that were in the possession of the inhabitant of an area, on the eve of this law going into force;


(2)
The Area Commander is entitled to grant a permit for a temporary stay in Israel to an inhabitant of an area, who applied for citizenship, in accordance with the Citizenship Law, or made a request for a license to reside in Israel, in accordance with the Entry into Israel Law, before Sunday, Sivan 1, 5862 (May 12, 2002), and in whose case a decision was not yet taken on the day that this law went into force, as long as the said inhabitant shall not be granted, on the basis of the instructions of this paragraph, citizenship in accordance with the Citizenship Law, and shall not be given a license to stay temporarily, or to stay permanently, in accordance with the Entry into Israel Law.
Validity
5.
This law shall remain in force until the end of a year from the day on which it is published, but the Government is entitled, with the approval of the Knesset, to prolong its validity by order, from time to time, for a period that shall not exceed one year on each occasion.
 

groggy

Banned
Mar 21, 2011
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Thanks for backing me up Mervin.
I have noted the temporary nature of the law, but since it was passed in 2003, debated in 2005 and then renewed in 2008, it can't still be considered temporary.

Hey, check out today's new racist law, up for debate soon:
A private members' bill that would encourage the emigration of Palestinians has been declared racist by the Knesset legal adviser, Anna Schneider. She has recommended to the Knesset presidium that the bill - submitted by MK Michael Kleiner (Herut) - be disqualified.

Kleiner's draft law would offer an "emigration package" to an Israeli resident or citizen who wanted to emigrate to an Arab country. The sum would be fixed by the interior minister and would be conditional on giving up Israeli citizenship or permanent residency.
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/emigration-packages-for-palestinians-dubbed-racist-1.75359
 

groggy

Banned
Mar 21, 2011
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It deals with who can and cannot immigrate as a result of marriage.
And it deals with that on a racist basis, you're starting to get it.
Good work.

It goes along with the Palestinian sentenced to 18 months in jail for having sex while pretending to be Jewish, 'Fire for Judaism' and the great big wall to keep the populations from mixing.
 

Mervyn

New member
Dec 23, 2005
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Thanks for backing me up Mervin.
I have noted the temporary nature of the law, but since it was passed in 2003, debated in 2005 and then renewed in 2008, it can't still be considered temporary.

Hey, check out today's new racist law, up for debate soon:


http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/emigration-packages-for-palestinians-dubbed-racist-1.75359
It's obvious you are incapable, or unwilling to understand. That law disproves everything you have stated about it.

It does not forbid marriages

It does not forbid citizenship, or residency

Two things you have stated it does, on both counts you are wrong.

From Oxford English dictionary

adjective

*
lasting for only a limited period of time ; not permanent:a temporary job

The law can be renewed, but it is of a fixed date each and every time (12 months from date of renewal) , if fact the law itself prevents the government from making it permanent.

As for the proposed law you have quoted, I would like to counter with a proposed Law up for debate in Saudi Arabia . . .oh wait, they don't get to debate laws there do they ?
 

groggy

Banned
Mar 21, 2011
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The law applies to Israeli's who marry Palestinians (as pointed out, it says residents of Gaza and the west bank but excludes the Jewish settlements) taking away the automatic citizenship granted to all other spouses of Israelis. It does leave potential avenues for protesting the decision, but that does not take away the fact that the law's goal is to keep Palestinian spouses from entering Israel, which is why its a miscegenation law. And finally, how temporary is a law that's already been in place for 8 years?

And yes, Saudi Arabia and Egypt also have racist miscegenation laws, does that make any of the right? Nope. But since Fuji keeps posting that Israel has equal rights for all citizens, he needs correcting until he understands that it is not true. Sure, Israel is more liberated then Saudi Arabia, but that's not setting the bar very high, is it?
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
79,952
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is.gd
Groggy, at this point you are just mocking yourself by clinging to statements that have been proven wrong.
 

groggy

Banned
Mar 21, 2011
15,256
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Groggy, at this point you are just mocking yourself by clinging to statements that have been proven wrong.
Lets see, there are the arguments of Fuji and Mervyn on one side.
On the other there are my arguments, the word of B'teselem, Amnesty, the Chief Justice of Israel and the editor of Haaretz.

Nope, I'll just quote the wiki summary of the law for you, one more time and see if it sinks in.
The law makes inhabitants of the West Bank and Gaza Strip ineligible for the automatic granting of Israeli citizenship and residency permits that is usually available through marriage to an Israeli citizen (ie Family reunification).
Note that there is a clause for inhabitants of settlements, to make sure that the law only applies to Palestinians.
This is a law that affects only Israelis who marry Palestinians.
That, my friend, is a miscegenation law.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
62,483
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Thanks for backing me up Mervin.
...
More proof he can't read.

As to the article posted, democracy allows private members bills and it clearly seems that this bill won't even be debated because of the legal advice. Maybe grog wants Israel to adopt a government like Syria's.

Despite the bill obviously not being passed, I doubt many Arab Israelis would have the slightest desire to leave Israel's democracy for the wonderful oppression of places like Syria, Saudi Arabia, or Egypt
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
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Groggy, you moron, this is the last time I am going to say this:

Palestinians who marry Israelis get automatic citizenship. Just not inhabitants of the West Bank or the Gaza Strip.

Read it about 10 times. If you still don't get it--you are just an idiot.
 

groggy

Banned
Mar 21, 2011
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Groggy, you moron, this is the last time I am going to say this:

Palestinians who marry Israelis get automatic citizenship. Just not inhabitants of the West Bank or the Gaza Strip.

Read it about 10 times. If you still don't get it--you are just an idiot.
And where are these Palestinians you speak of?
The refugee camps? - nope, they already can't get in, no need of a new law there
Israel? - nope, they are already in Israel, the law wouldn't effect them


No, this law is designed to keep Palestinians from entering Israel through marriage, it even has a loophole that excludes all residents of settlements. It uses geographic terms instead of racial terms to couch its language and not offend quite so many, but the effect is the same. Where are these mystic marrying Palestinians who aren't in the west bank, gaza or the refugee camps? They don't exist in numbers large enough to deserve their own law, do they?
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
62,483
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And where are these Palestinians you speak of?
The refugee camps? - nope, they already can't get in, no need of a new law there
Israel? - nope, they are already in Israel, the law wouldn't effect them
...
Hundreds of thousands have managed to escape the oppression of their Arab hosts and currently live in Canada, among many other places.

Jordan 2,700,000 [2][3]
Syria 630,000 [5]
Chile 500,000 [6]
Lebanon 402,582
Saudi Arabia 280,245
Egypt 270,245
United States 255,000 [7]
Honduras 250,000 [8]
United Arab Emirates 170,000
Mexico 120,000
Qatar 100,000
Germany 80,000 [9]
Kuwait 70,000
El Salvador 70,000 [10]
Brazil 59,000 [11]
Iraq 57,000 [12]
Yemen 55,000 [8]
Canada 50,975 [13]
Australia 45,000
Libya 44,000
UK 20,000 [9]
Peru 15,000
Colombia 12,000 [8]
Pakistan 8,500
Sweden 7,000 [14]
Guatemala 1,400
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people

For a grand total of 6,272,947 or around 50% of Palestinians eligible for automatic citizenship just like any other person marrying an Israeli.



Whoops!


Don't let facts get in the way of your arguments though.




(Of course those in Canada (and the US and most Western countries) aren't forced to be permanent refugees in the way the Arab world keeps them to but can get citizenship and status and rights.)



p.s. Someone might want to quote this since grog knows he can't win an argument against me so he's threatened to put me on ignore (boo-hoo!)
 
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