Should Catholic schools in Ontario continue to be publically funded?
- Thread starter JamesDouglas
- Start date
I'm not sure how this relates to what we're talking about, unless one of us is supposed to think that these are good.
Because we live in Western civilization.
Do you mean "justification based on 'it's old so get rid of it' is worse"? Because otherwise I can't make heads or tails of what you're trying to write here. Assuming that is what you mean, I said no such thing. I think age is entirely irrelevant to whether an idea is good or bad.
The only one I can think of off the top of my head is William Gairdner. I'm not invested enough in this conversation to actually hunt for another link, so if you want to disbelieve me feel free.
Nothing you've said here follows logically from what I said. Now you're just angrily vomiting words at the screen. Calm down, take a breath, maybe have a drink.
If you think that ending public subsidies for Roman Catholics to have their own schools alone among all the other religious groups in Ontario, including religious groups that have been part of Ontario society since before that name was even used and who used to run this province, is tantamount to "dump[ing] our tradition of the church in this country" well, I can't help you. I think at this point you should just admit that you're arguing from emotion and not any kind of rational basis... and if that's all this is, I'm not interested in convincing you to feel differently about anything.
Why can't Catholocism be offered as a course rather than a separate school?
A lot of money could be saved in combining pub and catholic boards be it freeing up real estate to eliminating duplication e.g. double the superintendents ect and so on.
Why do Catholics get their own schools and boards funded by tax dollars and other religions don't? I am not interested in taxes paying for religious schools to me that should be done on your own time
so for me it is about tax dollars and equity.
A lot of money could be saved in combining pub and catholic boards be it freeing up real estate to eliminating duplication e.g. double the superintendents ect and so on.
Why do Catholics get their own schools and boards funded by tax dollars and other religions don't? I am not interested in taxes paying for religious schools to me that should be done on your own time
so for me it is about tax dollars and equity.
.....and Ontarians are paying dearly for their little orgasm when they voted against John Tory on the education issue....just think ehealth, ornge, gas plants, massive deficit could all have been avoided.
Because the Fathers of Confederation made guarantees of education for religious minorities (i.e. Protestants in Quebec and Roman Catholics in Ontario) a precondition of agreeing to Confederation in the first place. Understandably so, since the pre-Confederation governments (and post-Confederation governments, for that matter) of both provinces were open in their hostility to the "other" side of the religious divide.
Once upon a time, the "public" school system in Ontario was in fact the Protestant school system. It wasn't until the '80s that Ontarians decided in their wisdom that a public education system shouldn't privilege the beliefs of part of the community at the expense of everyone else, so Christianity was shown the door. This didn't happen in Quebec because their school boards were explicitly Protestant or Catholic, which meant that little Jews, Hindus and Muslims in Quebec used to grow up singing songs like "Yes, Jesus Loves Me". Good times! In the end, the Quebec government perceived that basing public education on religion is anachronistic and, with the help of the feds, got rid of it. Ontario could do the same, but its elected legislators refuse to do so (and the fact that many of them have received campaign funds from Catholic teachers' unions is entirely coincidental, I'm sure...).
Amen! (Irony intended.)
Apparently, "equity" only matters to some people when they're denied a share of the largesse.
Last edited:
great arguments clearly superior to Blackrocks IQ level of comprehension. I hope you soon enough realize that spending as much time as you have, debating with this bloke, is like beating your head against the wall, and totally wasting your precious time..never the less..a nice post
For the record, before anyone trots out the old "you just hate religion/the Church" carnard... if you really feel strongly that Catholic education is worth preserving, and you're not actually in favour of special treatment of one minority at the expense of everyone else, surely you support extending public funding of separate schools for other religious communities as well? That wouldn't be my first choice, and it would be expensive at a time when Ontario can't afford more to spend more public money on entitlements, but it would at least meet basic Canadian (and global) standards for equity.
It's worth pointing out that Ontario is the only province in Canada in which the "100% of funding for Catholics, 0% of funding for every other religious group" model is used. Every other province has either no funding for religious schools (Atlantic Canada), or partial funding for all religious or independent schools (QC, BC, MB), or full funding for Catholic schools and partial funding for other religious/independent schools (AB, SK). The Ontario model is indefensible by any principle other than "Catholics are special and deserve special privileges that other Ontarians don't get," which IMO is a principle that makes you a worthless scumbag (and you can insert any other religious denomination for "Catholic" in that sentence and I'd feel the same way) but there you go.
I do find it deliciously ironic that individuals who normally rail against any kind of tax-funded perquisites or special programs in discussions on this forum, are now ardently defending a rather expensive tax-funded special privilege in this thread. Then again, I guess the rules change when you're the one with your snout in the trough...
It's worth pointing out that Ontario is the only province in Canada in which the "100% of funding for Catholics, 0% of funding for every other religious group" model is used. Every other province has either no funding for religious schools (Atlantic Canada), or partial funding for all religious or independent schools (QC, BC, MB), or full funding for Catholic schools and partial funding for other religious/independent schools (AB, SK). The Ontario model is indefensible by any principle other than "Catholics are special and deserve special privileges that other Ontarians don't get," which IMO is a principle that makes you a worthless scumbag (and you can insert any other religious denomination for "Catholic" in that sentence and I'd feel the same way) but there you go.
I do find it deliciously ironic that individuals who normally rail against any kind of tax-funded perquisites or special programs in discussions on this forum, are now ardently defending a rather expensive tax-funded special privilege in this thread. Then again, I guess the rules change when you're the one with your snout in the trough...
Well as NightOwlTO, pointed out that "ritualistic prayer" is the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed. Save for "Reformed Churches" most other Christians: Orthodox, Anglicans, many Lutherans, Old Catholics, as well as Roman Catholics see themselves as "Catholic" part of a Universal church and with apostolic succession.
Really nothing "funny" at all if you understand what Catholic actually means.
I dunno if it's right or not, but I find the whole economy of scale BS leaves me cold….We already have 4 boards in Ontario, Catholic and Public both English and French…..
Does it make sense to have two boards? based on something as old fashioned as mother tongue? While we are at it, why bother having individual Provincial boards? I mean wouldn't economy of Scale suggest that One federal board would be the ideal?
Of course not, there are always diminishing returns when anything get too big and I becomes it's own servant….
BTW many of the better Catholic Schools have left the Government funded boards, because the Government was pushing agendas that were contrary to Catholic teaching….
With all that said, I think it's a safe bet that The Church of Rome will be around a lot longer than Ontario will be, in the long run.
Does it make sense to have two boards? based on something as old fashioned as mother tongue? While we are at it, why bother having individual Provincial boards? I mean wouldn't economy of Scale suggest that One federal board would be the ideal?
Of course not, there are always diminishing returns when anything get too big and I becomes it's own servant….
BTW many of the better Catholic Schools have left the Government funded boards, because the Government was pushing agendas that were contrary to Catholic teaching….
With all that said, I think it's a safe bet that The Church of Rome will be around a lot longer than Ontario will be, in the long run.
Really? Can you name one?
Nothing amuses me more than seeing people declare their admiration for the Roman Catholic Church on a message board dedicated to the sex trade.
Kind of sad really because Tory was right (and the UN too) on this issue i.e. if the Catholics get funding for a seperate board, then all other religious groups should too. I was kind of surprised that he picked that particular issue when there were so many other and higher profile ones to focus on.
We will have beer in grocery stores in Ontario before this issue ever gets figured out!!!!
