Spain scraps plans to buy F-35 fighter jets

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

This is just the beginning as the world starts turning away from the US and Trump starts accumulating losses.
Canada should also cancel the F35 plans and buy from Europe.

Spain scraps plans to buy F-35 fighter jets

Spain has shelved plans to purchase F-35 fighter aircraft, Spanish newspaper El País reported today. Preliminary contacts for the purchase of the fifth-generation American stealth fighters have bee…

www.politico.eu

Spain has shelved plans to purchase F-35 fighter aircraft, Spanish newspaper El País reported today.

Preliminary contacts for the purchase of the fifth-generation American stealth fighters have been suspended "indefinitely" and the government will seek European alternatives like the Eurofighter or the upcoming Future Combat Air System, the paper reported.

"The Spanish option involves the current Eurofighter and the FCAS in the future," the Spanish defense ministry told POLITICO.

Spain's decision would be a major setback for planemaker Lockheed Martin, as Madrid issued a non-binding request for information on the F-35 in 2017.

Spain's 2023 budget included an initial allocation of €6.25 billion to replace navy and air force aircraft.

The Spanish navy plans to decommission its Harrier AV8B fighters by 2030 and has expressed interest in replacing them with naval version F-35B models, already purchased by the United States and Italy.

The air force also considered the F-35A model as a temporary solution to replace its McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornets while awaiting the FCAS.

Madrid’s move could further heat up tensions between Spain and the United States, as Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez is a vocal critic of NATO’s new defense spending goal of 5 percent of GDP, pushed by U.S. President Donald Trump.

 

[Frankfooter]

Canada should definitely cancel the F35 and cancel joining the trump golden dome disaster show.

 

[seanzo]

It's not as simple as just buying a European design. All European fighters use US technology to one degree or another. Technology that the US can block from being exported in the event that say Canada cancels the F35 and tries to buy the Gripen.

 

[Frankfooter]

It's not as simple as just buying a European design. All European fighters use US technology to one degree or another. Technology that the US can block from being exported in the event that say Canada cancels the F35 and tries to buy the Gripen.

But maybe Canada should just buy drones and not fighter jets at all.

 

[The Oracle]

''Madrid’s move could further heat up tensions between Spain and the United States, as Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez is a vocal critic of NATO’s new defense spending goal of 5 percent of GDP, pushed by U.S. President Donald Trump.''

They jus the U.S. to carry the weight...

 

[Frankfooter]

''Madrid’s move could further heat up tensions between Spain and the United States, as Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez is a vocal critic of NATO’s new defense spending goal of 5 percent of GDP, pushed by U.S. President Donald Trump.''

They jus the U.S. to carry the weight...

Poor america, they will have to pay for their genocide on their own dime.
Seems that most countries weren't worried about war before trump came back. That's what's really costing them now.

 

[oil&gas]

Just look to China and Russia for jets. Iran and North Korea
also produce drones at low cost. And none of them will attack
NATO members if they mind their own business.

 

[SchlongConery]

Just look to China and Russia for jets. Iran and North Korea
also produce drones at low cost. And none of them will attack
NATO members if they mind their own business.

Wodkuh tonight?

You gotta be kidding me.

I know a few things about airplanes. Even flew in an a MIG 29 Fulcrum and the second fastest interceptor in the world in the post Soviet collapse when it cost $3-5,000 for a joyride.

Fastest tractors I've ever flown. More utilitarian than a steam locomotive.

But their current planes are shit. Same with the chinese. Russia lost its better enginneers who fled Russia. China just doesn't get it. I'd fly in their plabes fr a joyride but would bnever buy or fly one in comcat of any sort.

Anyone who advocate corrupt rudimentary Russian wasplanes or those which will eventually be made of 100% Chinesium allpoys and stolen softwareis eitherr blinded by ideology, and not having a clue.

No wonder almost evetbody except your Top, nottyboi, thik your posts are beyond reality. I honestly hope you do'n't actualle believe this horseshit.

 

[seanzo]

Anyone who advocate corrupt rudimentary Russian wasplanes or those which will eventually be made of 100% Chinesium allpoys and stolen softwareis eitherr blinded by ideology, and not having a clue.

This coming from an elbows up liberal voting NPC boomer

 

[richaceg]

Canada should definitely cancel the F35 and cancel joining the trump golden dome disaster show.

Canada don't need anything...It's right beside the most powerful military in the world.

 

[richaceg]

Poor america, they will have to pay for their genocide on their own dime.
Seems that most countries weren't worried about war before trump came back. That's what's really costing them now.

You're just mad US sides with Israel...You are running in circles...you're mad at the US because you think Trump is buddies with Putin, then you're mad that he targets Russia economy...
Now let's get back on topic...Spain doesn't need F35 jets...other than boatloads of migrants in their shores, who are they gonna use the F35s against?

 

[SchlongConery]

This coming from an elbows up liberal voting NPC boomer

View attachment 470524

No, this coming from someone who knows aviation from literally a half century of being immersed in aviation. Both professionally and personally.

And fwiw, I voted for PP in the second to last election and Doug Ford in the last 2 elections. I am agnostic when it comes to political tribalism. In fact, I'd say disgusted by political tribalism that has divided our societies such that something as simple as saying Russian airplanes are brute force hammers, forged with farm tractor build repair philosophies. Which is perfect for a big, dumb, lazy workforce. And that the chinese have no native aviation legacy so they either buy or steal designs and try to knock off designs. Who wants to order planes from Temu?

Unlike your type who have schoolgirl crushes on individuals, politics are irrelevant to my assessment of aviation except that all parties in Canada have universally fucked up every aviation military procurement process due to trying to assuage politically sensitive Karens like you. And then you Simpletons revert back to having wet dreams reminiscing about the Avro Arrow being cancelled. Without any real understanding of the complexities and change in mission of the time etc. Oh and it was cancelled by a Conservative Prime MInister fwiw.

Would YOU fly in a Russian made airliner made with Chinesium parts? Would Donald Trump gold plate one for his own use?

 

[richaceg]

No, this coming from someone who knows aviation from literally a half century of being immersed in aviation. Both professionally and personally.

And fwiw, I voted for PP in the second to last election and Doug Ford in the last 2 elections. I am agnostic when it comes to political tribalism. In fact, I'd say disgusted by political tribalism that has divided our societies such that something as simple as saying Russian airplanes are brute force hammers, forged with farm tractor build repair philosophies. Which is perfect for a big, dumb, lazy workforce. And that the chinese have no native aviation legacy so they either buy or steal designs and try to knock off designs. Who wants to order planes from Temu?

Unlike your type who have schoolgirl crushes on individuals, politics are irrelevant to my assessment of aviation except that all parties in Canada have universally fucked up every aviation military procurement process due to trying to assuage politically sensitive Karens like you. And then you Simpletons revert back to having wet dreams reminiscing about the Avro Arrow being cancelled. Without any real understanding of the complexities and change in mission of the time etc. Oh and it was cancelled by a Conservative Prime MInister fwiw.

Would YOU fly in a Russian made airliner made with Chinesium parts? Would Donald Trump gold plate one for his own use?

The fact here is No one can match US airforce.. not even Russia and China combined. Heck even Israel would beat Russia if we're just talking dogfight. But as the title says... Spain scrapping F35 jets seems to be a "victory lap" for Shaq...but when Tim Cook makes a deal to manufacture Apple parts in the US, somehow it's bad...

 

[Frankfooter]

No, this coming from someone who knows aviation from literally a half century of being immersed in aviation. Both professionally and personally.

And fwiw, I voted for PP in the second to last election and Doug Ford in the last 2 elections. I am agnostic when it comes to political tribalism. In fact, I'd say disgusted by political tribalism that has divided our societies such that something as simple as saying Russian airplanes are brute force hammers, forged with farm tractor build repair philosophies. Which is perfect for a big, dumb, lazy workforce. And that the chinese have no native aviation legacy so they either buy or steal designs and try to knock off designs. Who wants to order planes from Temu?

Unlike your type who have schoolgirl crushes on individuals, politics are irrelevant to my assessment of aviation except that all parties in Canada have universally fucked up every aviation military procurement process due to trying to assuage politically sensitive Karens like you. And then you Simpletons revert back to having wet dreams reminiscing about the Avro Arrow being cancelled. Without any real understanding of the complexities and change in mission of the time etc. Oh and it was cancelled by a Conservative Prime MInister fwiw.

Would YOU fly in a Russian made airliner made with Chinesium parts? Would Donald Trump gold plate one for his own use?

But would you back a Gripen or Typhoon option?

 

[SchlongConery]

The fact here is No one can match US airforce.. not even Russia and China combined. Heck even Israel would beat Russia if we're just talking dogfight. But as the title says... Spain scrapping F35 jets seems to be a "victory lap" for Shaq...but when Tim Cook makes a deal to manufacture Apple parts in the US, somehow it's bad...

I don't doubt for a minute that the F35 series of combat aircraft are the most capable, advanced combat jets in the sky. And no doubt, the USAF is unmatched and can kick anyone's ass. Including ours. And if we, or Spain, have F-35's , they can be switched off on a capricious political impulse as easily as Elon switched off Starlink mid-mission on the Ukrainians.

Unfortunately, for the next 3 years, our biggest threat to the economic and sovereign security of Canada is none other than our neighbour who wants to sell us their fighter jets they can switch off and render unusable. I think the rest of the world has good reason to not trust that the US may switch off, or tariff the spares and other essentials required to use their aircraft.

Besides, you don't always need the very best to satisfy your needs. Rarely, if ever, has the use of attack/fighter jets ever been in "dogfights" occured in recent history.

For example, Canada, nor Spain are likely to engage in the missions requiring the high level of stealth, stand-off capabilities or dogfighting that the F35 possesses.

I'd even go so far as to say that the United States' slow walking their military equipment to Ukraine has changed the modern battlefield to such a degree that they have devalued the value of their own superiority in fighter aircraft in future military conflicts. They created a need that a desperate Ukraine filled with unmanned aircraft and marine equipment.

Canada's current core requirements are to have a military presence across our country. Especially patrolling the far north. The Northwest Passage and Arctic resources are only going to become more valuable, and in dispute, if we don't maintain a presence. Regular patrols by long range surveillance aircraft form the basis of that. Relatively inexpensive unmanned drones with those capabilities will come online sooner than F35's or more long range maritime patrol aircraft can be delivers.

For example, Sweden has changed, if not set the stage for the sunset of manned AWACS aircraft with their re-equipped the Reaper UAV as a full capability AWACS platform with outrageous on-station endurance.

But IMHO, we will always need to have widely dispersed quick response interceptor aircraft to respond when Russian Bear bombers poke and prod at our airspace, testing our response. These aircraft do not need to be stealthy, they just need to be on site quickly. Having 30 F35's based in Bagotville or Cold Lake Alberta aren't going to be able to do that, especially if we have no air to air refuelling capability.

50-100 Gripens that can be randomly moved between formal and informal stations in the far north and coastline, other various roads, small airstrips or major air bases are even more appropriate for Canada than they are for Sweden. They can shoot down a hostile Bear as good as an F35. And the Gripen reportedly has equal over the horizon stand-off ability to take out any accompanying Soviet fighters.

Having all our F35's based at the only two air bases that can support them on the ground is putting all our, expensive and only, eggs in one basket. A big, fat, juicy stationary basket that can easily be attacked by a ballistic missile.

We are not going to use F35's in an attack role, which is where they really shine.

Having more, less expensive fighters, that are cheaper to operate on an hourly basis makes for better, more proficient and current pilots. It also reduces the amount of manpower and other ground support to keep the aircraft flying.

Spain is not going to be attacking anyone either.

Sadly, F35's or Gripens at the Toronto Island Airport or St. Catherines airport are not going to protect us from an enemy President openly declaring his determination to make Canada his personal 51st state.

 

[SchlongConery]

But would you back a Gripen or Typhoon option?

Gripens.

We are not a country with a lot of cash flow, or the potential for that cash to buy, maintain and operate ultra-high performance, twin engine fighters like the Eurofighter/Typhoon nor the F35. Nor does our military attract enough people to be able to support the aircraft we already have, never mind train and keep pilots current and proficient.

Having more, smaller aircraft, flying at a lower cost, more often is better for our needs. We are not going to win an air superiority war over Canadian airspace against a determined Russia nor Trump, even with fifty F35's.

Some say that Canada needs f35's or simlar level ultra high performance fighters to contribute to our role in possible NATO conflicts elsewhere. Not everyone needs to come with F-35's or Typhoons.

War, especially regional wars, require small aircraft for logistical and tactical transport/evacuation of personnel and supplies near the front lines, large transport aircraft for moving heavy equipment and supplies over long distances. Helicopters for SAR and medevac.

And there is a role for Gripens in-theatre as much as there is for F-16''s. Which, last time I checked still form a main segment of the USAF. Heck, we can contribute meaningfully with cooks, dishwashers and grunts working on simple or complex civil engineering projects like berms, bunkers, erecting tents, bridges and even construction or repair of air bases. Somebody has to do it.

If Canadian politicians had ANY brains or forethought, Canada could buy a hundred CL-515 (Super Scoopers) that are actually marketed as multi-role aircraft for civil and wartime maritime patrol and recovery of personnel, firefighting, recon, etc etc. And we could sell/rent our services to other countries in their fire seasons as a revenue source. Never mind that we could easily deploy these Federal firefighting and patrol assets to various provinces as required.

And they are manufactured in Alberta! Imagine the decades of economic, employment and political benefits of an aerospace industry order of that size? And it would count towards our NATO military expected expenditures with many derivative, essential but lacking domestic benefits.

 

[Frankfooter]

Gripens.

We are not a country with a lot of cash flow, or the potential for that cash to buy, maintain and operate ultra-high performance, twin engine fighters like the Eurofighter/Typhoon nor the F35. Nor does our military attract enough people to be able to support the aircraft we already have, never mind train and keep pilots current and proficient.

Having more, smaller aircraft, flying at a lower cost, more often is better for our needs. We are not going to win an air superiority war over Canadian airspace against a determined Russia nor Trump, even with fifty F35's.

Some say that Canada needs f35's or simlar level ultra high performance fighters to contribute to our role in possible NATO conflicts elsewhere. Not everyone needs to come with F-35's or Typhoons. War requires small aircraft for tactical trasnport of supplies near the front lines, large transport aircraft for moving heavy equipment and supplies over long distances. Helicopters for SAR. And there is a role for Gripens in-theatre as much as there is for F-16''s. Which, last time I checked still form a main segment of the USAF. Heck, we can contribute meaningfully with cooks, dishwashers and grunts working on simple or complex civil engineering projects like berms, bunkers, erecting tents, bridges and even construction or repair of air bases.

If Canadian politicians had ANY brains or forethought, Canada could buy a hundred CL-515 (Super Scoopers) that are actually marketed as multi-role aircraft for civil and wartime maritime patrol and recovery of personnel, firefighting, recon, etc etc. And we could sell/rent our services to other countries in their fire seasons as a revenue source. Never mind that we could easily deploy these Federal firefighting and patrol assets to various provinces as required.

And they are manufactured in Alberta! Imagine the economic, employment and political benefits of an order of that size? And it would count towards our NATO military expected expenditures.

Thanks, nice to have informed views here.
Your plans sound way smarter than anything I've heard from the government or military.

 

[seanzo]

I voted for PP in the second to last election and Doug Ford in the last 2 elections.

Keep them elbows up loooool

 

[richaceg]

Gripens.

We are not a country with a lot of cash flow, or the potential for that cash to buy, maintain and operate ultra-high performance, twin engine fighters like the Eurofighter/Typhoon nor the F35. Nor does our military attract enough people to be able to support the aircraft we already have, never mind train and keep pilots current and proficient.

Having more, smaller aircraft, flying at a lower cost, more often is better for our needs. We are not going to win an air superiority war over Canadian airspace against a determined Russia nor Trump, even with fifty F35's.

Some say that Canada needs f35's or simlar level ultra high performance fighters to contribute to our role in possible NATO conflicts elsewhere. Not everyone needs to come with F-35's or Typhoons. War requires small aircraft for tactical trasnport of supplies near the front lines, large transport aircraft for moving heavy equipment and supplies over long distances. Helicopters for SAR. And there is a role for Gripens in-theatre as much as there is for F-16''s. Which, last time I checked still form a main segment of the USAF. Heck, we can contribute meaningfully with cooks, dishwashers and grunts working on simple or complex civil engineering projects like berms, bunkers, erecting tents, bridges and even construction or repair of air bases.

If Canadian politicians had ANY brains or forethought, Canada could buy a hundred CL-515 (Super Scoopers) that are actually marketed as multi-role aircraft for civil and wartime maritime patrol and recovery of personnel, firefighting, recon, etc etc. And we could sell/rent our services to other countries in their fire seasons as a revenue source. Never mind that we could easily deploy these Federal firefighting and patrol assets to various provinces as required.

And they are manufactured in Alberta! Imagine the economic, employment and political benefits of an order of that size? And it would count towards our NATO military expected expenditures.

Imo jets are something Canada can live without...and we've had for such a long time...IMo the juice is not worth the squeeze for Russia to pursue Canada we r3ally just have to focus on economy than the thought of an invasion...

 

[SchlongConery]

Keep them elbows up loooool

And you keep yours down, on the ground, on your knees while you willingly submit like a good Beta to the Almighty Mushroom Dick!