Teachers union supports Liberals after bribe

slowpoke

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train said:
Most of the money goes to teachers salaries of course.
Wherever they spend the money, it will be spent on education. Without the money, the various school boards were going to have budget problems and may have had to take drastic action like laying off teachers and support staff. The funding formula may be at fault here.

I normally avoid using one wrong to justify another but WTF do you think Tory was doing with his offer to fund faith based schools. That wasn't a bribe?

McGuinty had forecast steady increases in school funding as far back as his 2004 budget. The numbers have been adjusted in the meantime but the general trajectory was decided quite a while ago. Check slide #6.

http://www.cbc.ca/toronto/features/on_budget_2004/pdf/final_presentation.pdf

The election isn't until Oct. Shool starts in about 2 weeks. So a bribe isn't the only possible scenario here. The timing could just as easily be about injecting some much needed funding for the coming school year.

train said:
Which is it? The first sentence or the second? I'd say it was the second and that you would have to be pretty naive given the timing to see it as anything other than a bribe. But I I agree that all parties do it.
My second sentence (that all politicians are indirectly bribing us when they make election promises) was intended to point out the absurdity of calling this particular initiative a bribe when any new measure designed to benefit Ontarians could just as easily be construed as a bribe. We want our leaders to come up with solutions to our problems. I'd be worried about a guy who promised to do absolutely nothing that could possibly be construed as a bribe because he'd be totally handcuffed and we'd get nothing useful out of him.
 

Bearlythere

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scouser1 said:
what exactly do you mean by short days? are you suggesting in by 9 and out 3? because if thats the case try in by 7:30 am and out by maybe 5 if they arent doing extra cirricular activities for the benefits of the kids, teachers work just as hard as everyone else and deserve the same respect, no better or worse.

Well I have the utmost respect for teachers, lets see...730 to 5? Umm My dad worked that for years as a tool and die maker. I drive 10 hour plus days as a trucker. Small business owners work 10 hour days 6 days a week often. We all have tough jobs. Lets face the reality. The reality is teachers have a tough job but they are WELL COMPENSATED for it. However, when government money gets tight, they are the first on the battle lines to fight for their wages and incredible pensions. That is fine, I was in the Teamsters, I get that, but spare me the rhetoric then that you are doing it for the kids. You are NOT, you are doing it to maintain what you have, which is the best funded and run pension scheme in North America (short of being an MP) and despite the many that take summer courses, that isn't the same as work, rarely lasts all summer and I have yet to meet a teacher that didn't have more than 4 to 5 weeks of holidays a year.

I have the utmost respect for the job, but there are many that are there for the money, and for the money spent, we should have the brightest kids in the world, and we don't. For McGuinty to be bribing the union is just business as usual. Mike Harris and the idiot Snobelen were in their own clumsy way trying to make the education bureauracy be accountable, the way anyone in the private sector is held accountable. Funny thing that, doing what you are paid for, but for much of the bureaucrats in the school boards, it rarely happens....
 

train

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slowpoke said:
I normally avoid using one wrong to justify another but WTF do you think Tory was doing with his offer to fund faith based schools. That wasn't a bribe?
Tory was clearly trying to bribe/garner favour with those that support this.

By "faith schools" are you talking about the Catholic school system ? If you are then I have to say that it is absolutely stupid to have two parallel systems. Tory has lost points with me by supporting such an inefficient model as this.

I'd support McQuinty if he wasn't such a pussy with the Teacher's Unions.

.



I'd be worried about a guy who promised to do absolutely nothing that could possibly be construed as a bribe because he'd be totally handcuffed and we'd get nothing useful out of him.
You must really like the Federal Liberals - just about everything they did for the last 4 or 5 years could be construed as bribes.

Hey, maybe McQuinty wasn't buying favour ....maybe he was just buying peace with his wife who was a school teacher.
 

scouser1

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Bearlythere said:
Well I have the utmost respect for teachers, lets see...730 to 5? Umm My dad worked that for years as a tool and die maker. I drive 10 hour plus days as a trucker. Small business owners work 10 hour days 6 days a week often. We all have tough jobs. Lets face the reality. The reality is teachers have a tough job but they are WELL COMPENSATED for it. However, when government money gets tight, they are the first on the battle lines to fight for their wages and incredible pensions. That is fine, I was in the Teamsters, I get that, but spare me the rhetoric then that you are doing it for the kids. You are NOT, you are doing it to maintain what you have, which is the best funded and run pension scheme in North America (short of being an MP) and despite the many that take summer courses, that isn't the same as work, rarely lasts all summer and I have yet to meet a teacher that didn't have more than 4 to 5 weeks of holidays a year.

I have the utmost respect for the job, but there are many that are there for the money, and for the money spent, we should have the brightest kids in the world, and we don't. For McGuinty to be bribing the union is just business as usual. Mike Harris and the idiot Snobelen were in their own clumsy way trying to make the education bureauracy be accountable, the way anyone in the private sector is held accountable. Funny thing that, doing what you are paid for, but for much of the bureaucrats in the school boards, it rarely happens....

yeah well compensated sure take a job where you are capped at how much you can make depending on which board you are with, spend an entire day dealing with wacky parents who should have never been allowed to breed, demanding administrators both school and the ones with the cushy jobs in the school boards and tell me teachers are WELL COMPENSATED!!!
 

onthebottom

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scouser1 said:
yeah well compensated sure take a job where you are capped at how much you can make depending on which board you are with, spend an entire day dealing with wacky parents who should have never been allowed to breed, demanding administrators both school and the ones with the cushy jobs in the school boards and tell me teachers are WELL COMPENSATED!!!
And have all summer to post on TERB.......

OTB
 

scouser1

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onthebottom said:
And have all summer to post on TERB.......

OTB
if those of you who think its such an awesome job with all sorts of goodies and time off, maybe you should have become teachers hmmmm :D
 

slowpoke

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train said:
Tory was clearly trying to bribe/garner favour with those that support this.

By "faith schools" are you talking about the Catholic school system ? If you are then I have to say that it is absolutely stupid to have two parallel systems. Tory has lost points with me by supporting such an inefficient model as this.......
Not just Catholic schools. He's talking about a whole range of faith-based schools. I'd like one public school system to maximize efficiency. Those who want religious instruction can stay after school and take extra cost lessons at their own expense. We already give tax breaks to religious organizations. That should be enough.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2007/07/23/ot-religious-schools-070723.html

Tory vows to study public funding for Ont. faith-based schools
Pilot program would start in fall 2008
Last Updated: Monday, July 23, 2007 | 3:08 PM ET
CBC News
A Conservative government would move to provide public funding for Ontario's private Islamic, Jewish, Christian and Hindu schools if elected this fall, says party leader John Tory.

Tory promised Monday that a Conservative government would set up a commission headed by former premier Bill Davis to determine how to make religious schools fit into the public system.

"This is a plan that will bring faith-based schools which currently exist outside of the public system inside that system instead, subject to clear, reasonable conditions," he announced.

Including the province's private religious schools in the public system would cost an extra $400 million each year, he estimated.

The commission would consider details such as whether the schools would be attached to a school board or whether they would be run independently.

Tory added that a pilot project would start in the fall of 2008, based on the commission's recommendations

In order to receive public funding, faith-based schools would have to agree to teach the Ontario curriculum, participate in standardized testing and hire accredited teachers, Tory said, adding that public funding would not be extended to the schools without extensive consultation and thought.

About 53,000 Ontario students attend private religious schools, and they deserve the same support as students in the province's publicly funded Catholic schools, Tory said.

Tory's announcement was welcomed by Howard English, spokesman for the United Jewish Appeal Foundation of Greater Toronto.

"This something for which we have been fighting for nearly four decades," said English, whose group provides services to the city's Jewish community and runs the Board of Jewish Education, comprising more than 70 private day and supplementary schools.

When Davis was premier, his government passed legislation extending public funding to Catholic schools at the Grade 11, 12 and 13 levels. Ontario later eliminated Grade 13 throughout the province.

A CBC survey conducted in May found that 58 per cent of Ontario residents polled want the province's public and Catholic school boards to merge into a single system.
 

FOOTSNIFFER

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Bearlythere said:
I have the utmost respect for the job, but there are many that are there for the money, and for the money spent, we should have the brightest kids in the world, and we don't. For McGuinty to be bribing the union is just business as usual. Mike Harris and the idiot Snobelen were in their own clumsy way trying to make the education bureauracy be accountable, the way anyone in the private sector is held accountable. Funny thing that, doing what you are paid for, but for much of the bureaucrats in the school boards, it rarely happens....
Why should we always be deferring to these bureaucrats? In the private sector, managements have all kinds of constituencies that they have to satisfy and yet when these dimwits in those towers downtown are questioned as to the OUTCOMES they produce, it's blah blah blah from these lowlifes. You can't imagine how many plaintive and dispairing laments I hear from people not as benighted as the 'chosen few' in our economy about how taxes and other exactions from the government are just grinding them down. I'm almost horrified when they tell me what they have to live on. When McGimpy, with that clueless grin that he's always sporting announces a 'health levy' (it went into general revenues, so it was a tax), that's just one more turn of the screw to ragged working stiffs toiling in factories and little stores without benefits or any pay increases.

Canada is becoming a marginalized country in this world; read the recent conference board report if you think I'm out to lunch. The thing I could never understand about the canadian mentality is its acceptance of mediocrity, and how it becomes necessary to just tolerate intolerable circumstances, else be branded a 'rebel', and so marginalized.
 

onthebottom

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scouser1 said:
if those of you who think its such an awesome job with all sorts of goodies and time off, maybe you should have become teachers hmmmm :D
No, I'm willing to work harder to make more......

OTB
 

LancsLad

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Don't forget that you lot can retire mid 50's with the 85 full pension package while the paxpayers need to work for another 10 more years.
 

WoodPeckr

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LancsLad said:
Don't forget that you lot can retire mid 50's with the 85 full pension package while the paxpayers need to work for another 10 more years.
Your just jealous because you could never pass any of the standards to be a teacher!......:p
 

someone

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lookingforitallthetime said:
I thought the standards were pretty loose. :D
In my experience, education students tend to be even worse than arts students and business students. They are often at the bottom of the class.
 

LancsLad

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WoodPeckr said:
Your just jealous because you could never pass any of the standards to be a teacher!......:p


You are right , once I showed them that I understood what striving for excellence was they didn't want me.
 

WoodPeckr

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LancsLad said:
You are right , once I showed them that I understood what striving for excellence was they didn't want me.
Delusional loyal bushies have that effect on most people!....;)
 

WoodPeckr

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someone said:
In my experience, education students tend to be even worse than arts students and business students. They are often at the bottom of the class.
Always found the business students to be the bottom of the bottom.
....no where else to go.....;)
 

LancsLad

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WoodPeckr said:
Always found the business students to be the bottom of the bottom.
....no where else to go.....;)


Accounting Rocks, didn't you know that all the hot girls lusted for the Commerce guys???????
 
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someone said:
In my experience, education students tend to be even worse than arts students and business students. They are often at the bottom of the class.
My younger sister is a teacher and while attending Teacher's College she brought home some homework. I forget the details but part of the assignment involved cutting out shapes from construction paper.

My father lost it and exclaimed: "I'm paying 15K a year for you to cut out shapes in paper!"

Funny now, but it was a rather tense moment at the time.

BTW, she got an A+ on the paper cutting excercise. ;)
 

WoodPeckr

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LancsLad said:
Accounting Rocks, didn't you know that all the hot girls lusted for the Commerce guys???????
LOL!!!!
You're being delusional again......no?
Most hot girls found them about as exciting as DICK Cheney without his pizazzzz, Dubya also comes to mind!.....;)
 
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